Discussion Power Can anyone in the manga beat Lucius?

Can anyone in the manga beat Lucius?


  • Total voters
    11

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
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#8
Did my man just eat fucking Luciferoโ€™s heart???

Holy shit, weโ€™re about to witness a new realm of power in Black Clover lol.

Julius was already the strongest (non Devil) character weโ€™ve ever seen, so Lucius is also stronger than every other human at least, after eating Luciferoโ€™s heartโ€ฆfuck it, stronger than every Devil too?? Lol
 

Light D Lamperouge

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#10
Julius was the GOAT and now Lucius is even more of a GOAT.

Thank God Tabata pulled this card out of his sleeve.


Now: No one.

EOS: Asta lol.
You think Asta can pull it off at EoS? Hmmm not sure unless powercreep goes hard.
 

Light D Lamperouge

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#11
You don't think Tabata will follow the standard formula of MC reaching peak EOS?

We need to see how Lucius can affect Asta, we may see it next chapter, if so I will change my opinion.
I need to see what will go down. Will Lucius be eliminated, will he revert back to Juli permanently, etc.


Also it's pretty common for the final villain to be > the MC even though the mc beats him.

Yhwach>Ichigo
Kaguya>Naruto
Muzan>Tanjiro
etc etc
 
#13
Individually, no one can.
As a Team, Asta (to cancel his magic), Yami (with Dark powers), Yuno (Mana-man) and Mereoleona Vermillion (raw power), Jack (his hack and slash)......guess all the Captains together might stand a chance.
 

Light D Lamperouge

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#14
Even IMO Lucifer got defeated by Plot Armor.
Lucifero got beaten cuz Lucius kept rewinding time.


I talked about it here
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...-stop-to-get-the-best-possible-outcome.25246/


Imo it's quite clear now that Lucius has been rewinding time all along during the Raid to the Spade Kingdom and that's why everyone is seemingly fine.


This graph explains it quite well.




During that period of time a lot of things happened that would make no sense otherwise. Asta stated he'd need 30 minutes to recover from his Devil Union but used it quite soon after that.
Asta appearing at the exact moment to save Nacht.
No one dying.
Etc/

It is all because Lucius kept rewinding the time to get the best possible outcome and the one he desired. It's possible and highly likely that multiple characters had died, including Asta, Yami, Yuno, Mereoleona, etc. But Lucius rewound time and that didn't happen. That's why Adra just sat there and waited. He knew what was up.


And the desired outcome occurred. Lucifero was defeated, everyone was down on the ground, and no one could stop Adra from swooping in and taking Lucifero's heart.



Many have had complaints with this arc, me included, and with Lucifero not living up to the hype, again me included, however, this presents a totally new perspective. It is highly likely that Lucifero had killed everyone, multiple times even, however, Lucius kept rewinding time and screwing him over, until the fight went the way he wanted it, which resulted in him obtaining Lucifero's heart. It's not that this arc had no tension or stuff like that, imo it's that we were played. Tabata clearly couldn't show us the timelines changing cuz then it would be too obvious. I think this was a great move by Tabata. Almost every 'plot convenience' is easily negated now that we know Lucius has been in control of time.​
 
#15
Lucifero got beaten cuz Lucius kept rewinding time.


I talked about it here
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...-stop-to-get-the-best-possible-outcome.25246/


Imo it's quite clear now that Lucius has been rewinding time all along during the Raid to the Spade Kingdom and that's why everyone is seemingly fine.


This graph explains it quite well.




During that period of time a lot of things happened that would make no sense otherwise. Asta stated he'd need 30 minutes to recover from his Devil Union but used it quite soon after that.
Asta appearing at the exact moment to save Nacht.
No one dying.
Etc/

It is all because Lucius kept rewinding the time to get the best possible outcome and the one he desired. It's possible and highly likely that multiple characters had died, including Asta, Yami, Yuno, Mereoleona, etc. But Lucius rewound time and that didn't happen. That's why Adra just sat there and waited. He knew what was up.


And the desired outcome occurred. Lucifero was defeated, everyone was down on the ground, and no one could stop Adra from swooping in and taking Lucifero's heart.



Many have had complaints with this arc, me included, and with Lucifero not living up to the hype, again me included, however, this presents a totally new perspective. It is highly likely that Lucifero had killed everyone, multiple times even, however, Lucius kept rewinding time and screwing him over, until the fight went the way he wanted it, which resulted in him obtaining Lucifero's heart. It's not that this arc had no tension or stuff like that, imo it's that we were played. Tabata clearly couldn't show us the timelines changing cuz then it would be too obvious. I think this was a great move by Tabata. Almost every 'plot convenience' is easily negated now that we know Lucius has been in control of time.​
Ayo, there is high Possibility about this:crazwhat:, this could also explained why devil union is longer that we knew
Nice one Light
 
#17
So in the previous chapter, we got Adramelech presumably handing out the heart of half of Lucifero's body to Lucius. Then in this chapter, it seems like Lucius defeated (more like brutally slaughtered by the looks of it, lol) the other half of Lucifero residing on the final level of the underworld, effectively having (and eating) the other half of his heart.

In theory then, current Lucius should have = His own base power and magic (likely related to the brain or the soul judging by the theme of the Zogratis Family) + Lucifero's Full Power (assuming eating the heart means acquiring all the strength of the devil; Gravity Magic) + Astaroth's Full Power? (Time Magic).

If that's true, then good fucking lord. Imagine if Beelzebub is next and Lucius acquires all the raw magical power of the Three Rulers combined, along with their innate magic. Space, Time and Gravity, coupled with perhaps Soul/Brain Magic, would be all in Lucius' domain.

Literally a fucking god would be born from that. Dunno if that is Tabata's intention, but so far it looks like that to me. How would you even defeat something like that without massive amounts of plot armour and bullshit? I'm extremely hyped to see what kind of plans and goals the GOAT has on his sleeve, but at the same time, I'm fearing some massive bullshit incoming for when he's eventually defeated.

Honestly, if what I said is true, I can't imagine anyone being capable of soloing this man in a 1v1 fight. Final fight is probably gonna be a massive team-up in hopes of standing up to him. For now, I have some serious doubts someone's gonna be individually above him, even by EoS, but I guess shonen MC plot armour and bullshit should never be underestimated and that there's always a chance the MC pulls out some god-like power-up that rivals or even surpasses him huh? I hope that's not the case.
 
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Light D Lamperouge

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#18
So in the previous chapter, we got Adramelech presumably handing out the heart of half of Lucifero's body to Lucius. Then in this chapter, it seems like Lucius defeated (more like brutally slaughtered by the looks of it, lol) the other half of Lucifero residing on the final level of the underworld, effectively having (and eating) the other half of his heart.
My dawg was standing atop him like he some fodder lmao.


I think this panel can be interpreted as Lucius pinning down Lucifero with Gravity perhaps(?)

In theory then, current Lucius should have = His own base power and magic (likely related to the brain or the soul judging by the theme of the Zogratis Family) + Lucifero's Full Power (assuming eating the heart means acquiring all the strength of the devil; Gravity Magic) + Astaroth's Full Power? (Time Magic).
That's absolutely insane. How the fuck is anyone gonna deal with this man???





What's your opinion on Lucius having eaten Astaroth's heart too?


I find it difficult to imagine that no one could ever sense Astaroth at all.
If you noticed Adra calls him Lucius not Astaroth. Imo that might point to the fact that Astaroth actually vanished and was killed by Lucius who then consumed his heart or something in the vein and gained time magic. Astaroth is on the same tier as Lucifero, whose manifestation would destroy the world with what we've been told. It's also imo difficult to believe that no one noticed such a presence. So there is a chance that Lucius took Astaroth's power for himself. He's monologuing about how 'we humans' aka him included are the ones with the most brilliant magic.
 
#19
My dawg was standing atop him like he some fodder lmao.


I think this panel can be interpreted as Lucius pinning down Lucifero with Gravity perhaps(?)
Yeah, it could be. Some combination of time (given the clock we see just beneath his body) and gravity (to keep him pinned on the ground without moving a muscle) sounds quite possible.

That's absolutely insane. How the fuck is anyone gonna deal with this man???
That's what I fear. We know he's going to lose at some point. That's the way shonen tend to work, and while I don't dislike an antagonist being OP, I also like them being defeated in a consistent way. Let's just say that there tends to be a negative correlation between being OP and having a coherent defeat more often than not haha.

What's your opinion on Lucius having eaten Astaroth's heart too?


I find it difficult to imagine that no one could ever sense Astaroth at all.
If you noticed Adra calls him Lucius not Astaroth. Imo that might point to the fact that Astaroth actually vanished and was killed by Lucius who then consumed his heart or something in the vein and gained time magic. Astaroth is on the same tier as Lucifero, whose manifestation would destroy the world with what we've been told. It's also imo difficult to believe that no one noticed such a presence. So there is a chance that Lucius took Astaroth's power for himself. He's monologuing about how 'we humans' aka him included are the ones with the most brilliant magic.
I mean, him suddenly disappearing from the Underworld is pretty suspicious, but would Lucius have been capable of doing that to one of the Three Rulers of the Underworld, before acquiring any sort of extra power aside from his own? I find it a bit difficult to believe.
Well, it very likely wasn't a direct fight if that's the case, but more so a betrayal/sneak attack. Lucius might have initially done a similar contract to that of his siblings, and with the pass of time (pun totally not intended), he could have tricked Astaroth with his magic (plausibly related to the soul/brain following the Zogratis Family theme, with haxed magic like that you can easily think of ways to trick someone), which resulted in the demon's demise somehow and in Lucius swallowing him.

But yeah, so far it seems strongly implied that Lucius is his own person, following only his own desires without being possessed by anyone. This, and the fact that he has Astaroth's powers, seems to strongly imply that something happened to Astaroth when he and Lucius made contact and that "something" seemed to favour Lucius.
 

Light D Lamperouge

๐–‚๐–๐–†๐–™ ๐•ฎ๐–”๐–š๐–‘๐–‰ ๐•ณ๐–†๐–›๐–Š ๐•ญ๐–Š๐–Š๐–“
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#20
Yeah, it could be. Some combination of time (given the clock we see just beneath his body) and gravity (to keep him pinned on the ground without moving a muscle) sounds quite possible.
I agree. Imagine being so GOATED you use gravity to dominate the Devil whose entire magic is gravity. Only Julucius could pull it off.
:finally:

That's what I fear. We know he's going to lose at some point. That's the way shonen tend to work, and while I don't dislike an antagonist being OP, I also like them being defeated in a consistent way. Let's just say that there tends to be a negative correlation between being OP and having a coherent defeat more often than not haha.
I absolutely agree here as well. The single best way would be imo to somehow revert back to the Julius persona for good. Keeps the Godly untouchable aura of Lucius intact and has him as the strongest and not something overcame with bullshit powerups. I think that would work better than Asta etc teaming up and getting stronger outta nowhere and winning.

Plus I am truly curious to what Julius is lol. Who the hell is he? What are Lucius' goals? So much more to explore.


I mean, him suddenly disappearing from the Underworld is pretty suspicious, but would Lucius have been capable of doing that to one of the Three Rulers of the Underworld, before acquiring any sort of extra power aside from his own? I find it a bit difficult to believe.
Well, it very likely wasn't a direct fight if that's the case, but more so a betrayal/sneak attack. Lucius might have initially done a similar contract to that of his siblings, and with the pass of time (pun totally not intended), he could have tricked Astaroth with his magic (plausibly related to the soul/brain following the Zogratis Family theme, with haxed magic like that you can easily think of ways to trick someone), which resulted in the demon's demise somehow and in Lucius swallowing him.

But yeah, so far it seems strongly implied that Lucius is his own person, following only his own desires without being possessed by anyone. This, and the fact that he has Astaroth's powers, seems to strongly imply that something happened to Astaroth when he and Lucius made contact and that "something" seemed to favour Lucius.
Yeah I also believe it's something like a sneak attack or betrayal. Or something to do with Lucius' innate magic. Perhaps he tricked Astaroth completely, if he uses brain magic, and got him to agree to a contract that completely favours Lucius.

Correct me if I am wrong, but we weren't introduced to the phenomena of getting a devil's power through their heart before Lucius? It also makes sense to me that he ate Astaroth's heart firstly and learned that way.



BTW, br0 you got the coldest avy on the forum. No cap.


Btw #2 be more active in the BC section my man.

BTW #3 lmao, you on CSM hype yet?
 
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