General & Others How many people think it’s fine that Oda fumbled Zoro in Wano?

[Garp the Fist]

Well it’s not just Zoro, it’s the end of Wano as a whole that Oda fumbled. That hit the characters who were actually important in Wano- Zoro, Momo, Kaido, Kin’emon, Yamato, Hiyori- worse than anyone else, because they were the ones who Oda had spent all the time on and then just shit the bed.

Zoro’s was particularly bad because it Oda just forgot to write the last 20-10% of his Wano plot.

I think Momo’s probably the best of the lot because we at least got the beginning to end of his story and it was all fairly consistent, could see what was happening. But he was badly hit with the disaster class that was the damp squib ending of Luffy vs Kaido and Momo’s big “hold Wano on his shoulders“ metaphorically moment being so bleh.

 

[kekaro]

That is a nasty comparison. The only similarity Chopper has with the Minks is that he's an anthromorphic animal with comparable intelligence to humans. They aren't really even the same species.

In Zoro's case, Zoro's home village is a branch of Wano heritage. Zoro's sword style is influenced by Wano's teachings. Zoro's family tree is deeply connected to Wano. Ryuma, a man Zoro respected, is from Wano as was his legendary blade, Shusui. Zoro has shown interest in how samurais fought ever since he saw Kinemon use Fire-Fox Style. Zoro had plot set-up within Wano that were personal between only himself and the Wano characters.

Sure, Zoro could become the WSS without coming to Wano. He also could of been offscreened since his introduction, never appeared again since then, and still achieve the title as well, but at the end of the day he did come, and his roots are somewhat influenced by Wano, and he made relationships with the Wano citizens that were not properly concluded. The journey is an important piece of the narrative, not just the destination.

I have other critiques about your comment, but I'll refrain from them as of now.

That bro just gave up any pretense that Zoro is anything else beside a broly Dragonball z tier character in odas eyes and role in the story, you gotta respect the hate, generational

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Thats not half of the reason why that fight is badly written tbh

Zoro vs embellished silhouette man is one of the worst fights in One Piece

 

[L57]

What development did he get?

He learned he cant kill kaido

 

[kekaro]

Zoro vs embellished silhouette man is one of the worst fights in One Piece

The funniest thing about that fight and how Oda clearly didn't care is zoros flashback about cursed swords or rather the none existence of them

a) Zoro has a cursed sword since loguetown
B) he spend like several days with another legendary swordsmith 24 hours before that fight.

But he remembers a tid bit about this during that fight that is supposed to be some epic moment

People barely talk about this because how many dumb and bad things are about that fight

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

But he remembers a tid bit about this during that fight that is supposed to be some epic moment

I don't remember this

Post automatically merged: Aug 26, 2024

Still can't get over the fact that Ling is a literal walking silhouette in plain daylight 😂😂😂😂

 

[kekaro]

I don't remember this

Post automatically merged: Aug 26, 2024

Still can't get over the fact that Ling is a literal walking silhouette in plain daylight 😂😂😂😂

Chapter 1033

Enjoy, this just the start

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Chapter 1033

Enjoy, this just the start

Oh right I remember now.
There are 2 possibilities: Oda wrote Zoro intentionally disinterested to get away with not revealing anything about his backstory ('because Zoro himself doesn't care anyway') OR Zoro in-series has major psychological issues from being an orphan from an unstable household with questionable shady bandit heritage.

 

[Salah WG]

That is a nasty comparison. The only similarity Chopper has with the Minks is that he's an anthromorphic animal with comparable intelligence to humans. They aren't really even the same species.

In Zoro's case, Zoro's home village is a branch of Wano heritage. Zoro's sword style is influenced by Wano's teachings. Zoro's family tree is deeply connected to Wano. Ryuma, a man Zoro respected, is from Wano as was his legendary blade, Shusui. Zoro has shown interest in how samurais fought ever since he saw Kinemon use Fire-Fox Style. Zoro had plot set-up within Wano that were personal between only himself and the Wano characters.

Sure, Zoro could become the WSS without coming to Wano. He also could of been offscreened since his introduction, never appeared again since then, and still achieve the title as well, but at the end of the day he did come, and his roots are somewhat influenced by Wano, and he made relationships with the Wano citizens that were not properly concluded. The journey is an important piece of the narrative, not just the destination.

I have other critiques about your comment, but I'll refrain from them as of now.

Didn't say "Zoro/Wano is just like Chopper/Zou"
I said "Better Comparison" referring to how He compared Zoro to Usopp/Elbaf Situation

Elbaf is Usopp's Dream Land, it's Equivalent of meeting Mihawk for Zoro
Usopp's Wano is Sniper Island & He was influenced by his Father who is a Sniper, not an Elbaf Giant

So comparing Usopp/Elbaf to Zoro/Wano is simply Bad Comparison, they are completely different situations
Chopper/Zou is better one, because it's about a Straw Hat being on an Island full of People with similar Design

And what you said was the whole point of why i mentioned Chopper
Oda created an Island with Chopper-Looking People but it didn't end up being important for his Dream
So Wano doesn't need to be Important for Zoro's Arc nor does Egghead need to be Important for Franky's Arc nor does Sniper Island if they ever visit it needs to be Important for Usopp's Arc ... etc

So what i said still stands, it's a problem of bad expectations
It's true i was talking about ZKK a lot back in the day, but it's a Battle Feat, cuz that's my only expectation from Zoro, i expect Fighting Panels from him & We got so many of them in Wano, and they weren't Bad at all, it's just that We hoped for more, but that applies to every Arc

However, expecting Wano to be like the promised land of Zoro's Arc & Character Development & Reveals about the Past & some Drama ... etc
That's completely baseless

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

What mechanics?

Mechanics such as Zoro was unable to damage king from the start of the fight to the end of the fight.

King lost because he made himself able to lose. As opposed to Zoro himself actually overcoming king’s durability

The fight also starts with that plot hole of Zoro making king bleed

Also Enma is a bad gimmick

Zoro gets CoC with no character arc

The Enma backstory is nonsensical

 

[CbShadow]

Mechanics such as Zoro was unable to damage king from the start of the fight to the end of the fight.

King lost because he made himself able to lose. As opposed to Zoro himself actually overcoming king’s durability

This is wrong.

King lost because Zoro beat him at his own game.

King left flame mode, took to air and attacked off the island because he believed Zoro could hurt him in flame mode and he was decreasing Zoro's chance to hit him. Unfortunately for him, Zoro proved have greater mobility and speed than he thought

King had a choice. Stay in flame mode and risk being hit with an attack he believed could damage him in flame mode or increase his distance and speed and hope that would increase his chances at evading Zoro's attack. He chose the latter.

 

[Salah WG]

Mechanics such as Zoro was unable to damage king from the start of the fight to the end of the fight.

King lost because he made himself able to lose. As opposed to Zoro himself actually overcoming king’s durability

The fight also starts with that plot hole of Zoro making king bleed

Also Enma is a bad gimmick

Zoro gets CoC with no character arc

The Enma backstory is nonsensical

Exactly, this is what i wanted to hear, it's not about Zoro's Story/Dream or his Feats in Wano
It's same old complaint about Zoro's Power Ups, Magic Sword this & Oden's CoC that ... etc

And on top of it, you tell me "Have you seen Kaku Fight"
As if Asura had a Character Arc before it was revealed, why didn't Zoro use it against Mihawk?
See the Bias, you are just picking what suits you & criticizing what doesn't

Rate Wano as 0/10 if you want, but Zoro never looked Bad in it

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Elbaf is Usopp's Dream Land, it's Equivalent of meeting Mihawk for Zoro
Usopp's Wano is Sniper Island & He was influenced by his Father who is a Sniper, not an Elbaf Giant

So comparing Usopp/Elbaf to Zoro/Wano is simply Bad Comparison, they are completely different situations

I DO hope you are right.

 

[L57]

Mechanics such as Zoro was unable to damage king from the start of the fight to the end of the fight.

King lost because he made himself able to lose. As opposed to Zoro himself actually overcoming king’s durability

The fight also starts with that plot hole of Zoro making king bleed

Also Enma is a bad gimmick

Zoro gets CoC with no character arc

The Enma backstory is nonsensical

Made queen distracted by a prostitute
Made king disable his flames
Made kaido take barajang gun instead of easily dodging

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Zoro's Story

What are you talking about? I explained that Zoro’s fight was bad… it’s Zoro’s fight NOT PART OF ZORO’S STORY?

what? Literally 80% of Zoro’s story relevance is his fights… if the fights are bad then Zoro’s story is bad because his fights are his story

 

[Master OF Haki]

Outside of expectations for the arc and Zoro, how is it possible that Zoro was so short-changed in the Samurai and Swordsman arc?

It’s like why isn’t Oda criticized more for this? I mean however much you like Oda and think his shit is the ambrosia of the gods, you have to admit that Zoro’s Wano story is severely lacking in many ways. So why is this acceptable?

Seriously it doesn’t even matter how high or low your expectations were for Zoro to begin with, how did the Samurai and Swordsman arc have Zoro doing a bunch of meaningless side-quests and a bad fight at the end and that’s it.

Please I’m really asking, even the Zoro haters, is this acceptable even to you? 4 years and 150 chapters of the closest thing to Zoro having any significance and it’s just a nonsensical fight with nonsense “cool guys feats” and that’s acceptable to you from Oda and Oda did nothing wrong with this abysmal story?

Seriously imagine if you transposed this situation to Usopp in elbaf. 4 years and 150 chapters and the best you got out of Usopp in Elbaf was meaningless side-quests and a bad fight. (Okay Usopp doesn’t even get fights usually so you might think it’s fine but seriously, why does it have to be a bad fight tho? Why shouldn’t Usopp get the best fight of his life in Elbaf? Why settle for a bad one?)

Some people read the above and say “well Usopp is a better written than Zoro so Usopp is more deserving or good development in Elbaf than Zoro had in Wano” and I want you to think about this statement and ask yourself “Isn’t it Oda that’s responsible for the disparity in the writing quality between these characters? Isn’t it Oda who’s to blame for a lack of writing for any character? Why is it simply acceptable for Oda to be a bad writer in some regards for no reason?”

There are two main reasons for that, first is that Wholcake island made the shitty writing and character humiliation a normal thing, and the second one is that the Zoro fans forced Oda's hand into putting Zoro on the rooftop instead of focusing on an actual Samurai vs Samurai fight which Zoro deserved, a full on sword porn for us to enjoy, but instead we got Oden powerful haki inside Enma.

 

[Unlimited Rulebook]

Zoro was handled decently in Wano. Zoro isn’t the MC. Zoro won’t get the majority of panels/story.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

believed co

King never once says Zoro could damage him… Not even once

The only thing King says is that he’s getting tired… That’s the only he says about wanting to end the fight sooner because he was getting tired by then… at no point does King ever once say Zoro could damage him

And Zoro agrees that He can’t damage a lunarian in egghead

 

[Gauntlet]

Didn't say "Zoro/Wano is just like Chopper/Zou"
I said "Better Comparison" referring to how He compared Zoro to Usopp/Elbaf Situation

Elbaf is Usopp's Dream Land, it's Equivalent of meeting Mihawk for Zoro
Usopp's Wano is Sniper Island & He was influenced by his Father who is a Sniper, not an Elbaf Giant

So comparing Usopp/Elbaf to Zoro/Wano is simply Bad Comparison, they are completely different situations
Chopper/Zou is better one, because it's about a Straw Hat being on an Island full of People with similar Design

And what you said was the whole point of why i mentioned Chopper
Oda created an Island with Chopper-Looking People but it didn't end up being important for his Dream
So Wano doesn't need to be Important for Zoro's Arc nor does Egghead need to be Important for Franky's Arc nor does Sniper Island if they ever visit it needs to be Important for Usopp's Arc ... etc

So what i said still stands, it's a problem of bad expectations
It's true i was talking about ZKK a lot back in the day, but it's a Battle Feat, cuz that's my only expectation from Zoro, i expect Fighting Panels from him & We got so many of them in Wano, and they weren't Bad at all, it's just that We hoped for more, but that applies to every Arc

However, expecting Wano to be like the promised land of Zoro's Arc & Character Development & Reveals about the Past & some Drama ... etc
That's completely baseless

I understand that having unrealistic expectations usually sets you up for disappointment, but most of my expectations were from the story. My comment was moreso about the factual connections Zoro has with Wano that go further and deeper than Chopper's with Zou.

The Zoro and Chopper comparison would be more apt if: Zou were not only inhabited by anthromorphic animals, but also had some of the best doctors in the world as well, and they had medical techniques that are mostly unknown. Significant figures of the world made mentions of their medical prowess just as Akainu did for the samurai of Wano. Drum Island, which has some of the best doctors of the Grand Line, got their medical practices and knowledge primarily from Zou, and Chopper's work in the field was the same to those as Zou.

All of this to say that it's rather strange to hype up Wano's swordsmanship, something Zoro heavily appreciates, to the point where even Akainu declined Kizalu's offer to go there not because of Kaido and Big Mom, but thanks to the supposed power of the samurai. Yet despite all this, Oda never delivered on the hype he created for Wano, and Zoro barely shows any interest of anything sword related in Wano besides how Ryuma created a Black Blade, which was short-lived, and the cursed sword that was basically forgotten after Guffy gets his ass handed to him by Kaidk. That's not to mention the actual dropped plot threads that have no conclusion. Zoro never visited Ryuma grave as far as we know. Zoro never mentions how he feels about the Yasuie situation after the conclusion of the war despite the previous acts making a big deal out of their relationship. Zoro doesn't show any care about Hiyori's dilemma and aftermath with Orochi despite giving his ear to hear her plight of wanting to take down Orochi. All of these things, potential and realized, that had to deal with Zoro were simply scrapped to the wayside. While Zoro did exceed my expectations in terms of power, his narrative impact unfortunately contrasts his performance in battle.

Though I do get your point in that Ussop has shown more anticipation for going to Elbaf, that's not exactly his dream island as his dream "to be the bravest warrior of the sea" won't succeed just because he arrives in Elbaf and gets to know the brave Elbaf warriors. Ussop's dream is an internal one, and Ussop may not even succeed in Elbaf. There's no guarantee that he will accomplish his goal in Elbaf unlike how Zoro would do so if he defeats Mihawk.

 

[CbShadow]

King never once says Zoro could damage him… Not even once

The only thing King says is that he’s getting tired… That’s the only he says about wanting to end the fight sooner because he was getting tired by then… at no point does King ever once say Zoro could damage him

And Zoro agrees that He can’t damage a lunarian in egghead

King did not use those words and say Zoro can damage him but the scene applies it.

Zoro noticed King changes fighting styles and was blocking more instead of taking the attacks. He asked Zoro why bought blocking if his attacks can't hurt him is he scared of his power.

King response wasn't Zoro can't hurt him. Instead he just said Zoro can't win.

Why didn't Oda just have King say Zoro can't hurt him in flame mode if he can't? Answer, because King wasn't sure his flame mode could withstand Zoro's power. Thats the reason King increased his speed and distance from Zoro. That increased his chances at evading Zoro's attacks.

King did what any intelligent person would do if they believe their defensive power can no longer protect them from their opponent's attacks and they can make themselves harder to hit by increasing speed and distance from their opponent. No, King wasn't being dumb. He was being smart.

On Egghead Island Luffy compared the seraphims to Kaido yet didn't use the same power he used to defeat Kaido. Zoro statement a similar to Luffy's actions, Oda typical bad w
riting.