chu never really intrested with coalition war in first place that,s why they bring kanmei and karin
juuko generals never have loyalty to chu risky to bring them to coalition war
after war they will betray each others the only reason chu never staged to united china is they prefer status quo that conquer 6 states ,they already in their confort zone...
i think qin still win with this scenario
juuko generals never have loyalty to chu risky to bring them to coalition war
after war they will betray each others the only reason chu never staged to united china is they prefer status quo that conquer 6 states ,they already in their confort zone...
i think qin still win with this scenario
Chu was one of the principal parties in creating the Coalition to begin with, and committed their two best generals to the cause. I don't think it's accurate to suggest their commitment to the war effort reflects a lack of caring.
It would also make a ton of sense for the Chu to be invested in the cause of destroying Qin because they were the only other state that had both the means and ambition (read: political will) to challenge them in the immediate future. Qin is now the other super state in the picture, after conquering so much of Zhao and Wei territory. I don't think that comes as a complete shock to Chu.
The Juuko generals aren't loyal to Chu, but they aren't fools. They're not going to switch to weaker sides for the sake of it. The only reason they would defect is if they wanted the thrill of challenge and the opportunity to take vengeance. That's actually not too wild of a possibility imo and a reasonable excuse for why Chu wouldn't bring them along.
If the Juuko generals remain with Chu, I don't see any way for the Qin to survive that doesn't involve drawing out the war as long as possible to give their young talents time to mature.
It would also make a ton of sense for the Chu to be invested in the cause of destroying Qin because they were the only other state that had both the means and ambition (read: political will) to challenge them in the immediate future. Qin is now the other super state in the picture, after conquering so much of Zhao and Wei territory. I don't think that comes as a complete shock to Chu.
The Juuko generals aren't loyal to Chu, but they aren't fools. They're not going to switch to weaker sides for the sake of it. The only reason they would defect is if they wanted the thrill of challenge and the opportunity to take vengeance. That's actually not too wild of a possibility imo and a reasonable excuse for why Chu wouldn't bring them along.
If the Juuko generals remain with Chu, I don't see any way for the Qin to survive that doesn't involve drawing out the war as long as possible to give their young talents time to mature.
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hmmm very interesting
btw i made an assumption about why chu never interested to attcak qin is because Shun shin kun (chu prime minister) allied with riboku to form coalition army so he is the true leader for coalition and person who have ambition to attack qin not chu itself.
as a prof After the Coalition War failure Shun Shin Kun was blamed by the king of Chu for the state's military failure. As a result, the former prime minister and head of military affairs was stripped from his titles and banished to the city of Raiko
and in the end he is killed by assassin ordered by ri en (kinda tragic for PM).
i agreed about juuko generals though they really want thrill of challenges n vengeance .
btw i made an assumption about why chu never interested to attcak qin is because Shun shin kun (chu prime minister) allied with riboku to form coalition army so he is the true leader for coalition and person who have ambition to attack qin not chu itself.
as a prof After the Coalition War failure Shun Shin Kun was blamed by the king of Chu for the state's military failure. As a result, the former prime minister and head of military affairs was stripped from his titles and banished to the city of Raiko
and in the end he is killed by assassin ordered by ri en (kinda tragic for PM).
i agreed about juuko generals though they really want thrill of challenges n vengeance .
Just Ou Ki's presence is already a great assets for Qin. He will motivate them like no one could.
The fact that he is also a great strategist will be important for Qin, they were lacking someone like him during this war
Sure Moubu was great but he's mainly an offensive general.
So if Ou Ki is there you have a good strategist on the battlefield for quick changments (Shouheikun isn't there) and you have Tou+Moubu to fight somewhere else
It's 50/50 I think, I give it to Qin because they already win
The fact that he is also a great strategist will be important for Qin, they were lacking someone like him during this war
Sure Moubu was great but he's mainly an offensive general.
So if Ou Ki is there you have a good strategist on the battlefield for quick changments (Shouheikun isn't there) and you have Tou+Moubu to fight somewhere else
It's 50/50 I think, I give it to Qin because they already win
Still Qin going to defeat coalition army heavily. That's with assuming following points :
- Other than Tou, Ouki has all of his own previous generals. Ouki's GG weight and experience along with MouBu will crush Chu's army.
- Tou along with MouTen and OuHon stalling KouChou's army.
- Keisha army as usual dealing with Duke.
- Most importantly Riboku is still sending soldiers secretly through Southern passage.
Without Houken in the Southern passage, Duke with single charge destroying Riboku himself. No need to bring down YTW army. Lol
- Other than Tou, Ouki has all of his own previous generals. Ouki's GG weight and experience along with MouBu will crush Chu's army.
- Tou along with MouTen and OuHon stalling KouChou's army.
- Keisha army as usual dealing with Duke.
- Most importantly Riboku is still sending soldiers secretly through Southern passage.
Without Houken in the Southern passage, Duke with single charge destroying Riboku himself. No need to bring down YTW army. Lol
Jukko Team will make this almost an impossible task. With Ouki not dead Moubu will likely not have his awakening and will be easily trapped in some scheme of Jukko and while Ouki will be busy dealing with Kanmei, other Generals like Sentoun, Man U and Gen U will completely wreck Qin army. None of Ouki's vassals other than Tou is capable to stop their onslaught.
I mean a separate one than the one Tou commanded during Kankoku pass battle. If the scenario is just Ouki and the deceased Generals joining the battle, it won't be enough to compensate for the ridiculous size of Kochou/Juuko armies.
Giving Ouki an additional 30,000-40,000 would be the minimum to discuss this scenario lol.
Giving Ouki an additional 30,000-40,000 would be the minimum to discuss this scenario lol.
Ouki is one of 6GG. That's enough to prove that he hadn't been the monstrous bird of the Qin just because of his monstrous strength and otherworldly weigh. He has his own mind blowing tactics and enormous experience.
He's also someone who faced/stalemate Renpa and also the one who one-shotted the GG who takeover from Renpa.
Ouki with his tactics and generals could stop Renpa and his army than what are these Juuko boys. No doubt they are experienced boys but still not comparable with either Ouki or Renpa.
As for awakening of MouBu, this whole thread is as per the characters potential at the moment of Coalition. Also no matter how perfectly SHK prepared things for MouBu, as per the actual situation Ouki could make it far better than that as well. (E.g. as done by Ousen twice).
No need to use Tou here against Chu. Ouki is enough to put some bad jokes here. (Kukukuku). Right @Owl Ki ??
Tou along with young gen could deal with KouChou's army.
SHK won't be that petty to not provide some extra men to Ouki. Lol
Joke aside, according to the situation at war, as mentioned by SHK or Renpa, Qin couldn't use more extra soldiers there than used in war as they had to solidify there borders as well.
Vut as mentioned in first post its just regular men of Juuko boys and KouChou added in coalition army.
That's why i said just the addition of Ouki (along with his generals) as one of the 6GG is enough to change tides of the war even few additions on Coalition side.
He's also someone who faced/stalemate Renpa and also the one who one-shotted the GG who takeover from Renpa.
Ouki with his tactics and generals could stop Renpa and his army than what are these Juuko boys. No doubt they are experienced boys but still not comparable with either Ouki or Renpa.
As for awakening of MouBu, this whole thread is as per the characters potential at the moment of Coalition. Also no matter how perfectly SHK prepared things for MouBu, as per the actual situation Ouki could make it far better than that as well. (E.g. as done by Ousen twice).
No need to use Tou here against Chu. Ouki is enough to put some bad jokes here. (Kukukuku). Right @Owl Ki ??
Tou along with young gen could deal with KouChou's army.
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SHK won't be that petty to not provide some extra men to Ouki. Lol
Joke aside, according to the situation at war, as mentioned by SHK or Renpa, Qin couldn't use more extra soldiers there than used in war as they had to solidify there borders as well.
Vut as mentioned in first post its just regular men of Juuko boys and KouChou added in coalition army.
That's why i said just the addition of Ouki (along with his generals) as one of the 6GG is enough to change tides of the war even few additions on Coalition side.
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That should be more than enough to play with coalition army.
Though at that moment Qin wasn't in position to draw more men from other posts and use them in war.
@Dragomir to make this coalition war more interesting, assuming Riboku taking charge of Wei and Han's army at the gate or include Yan's army command as well and that would be more thrilling.
Though at that moment Qin wasn't in position to draw more men from other posts and use them in war.
@Dragomir to make this coalition war more interesting, assuming Riboku taking charge of Wei and Han's army at the gate or include Yan's army command as well and that would be more thrilling.
I think i missed it somewhere in other posts of the thread.
Nahh. Adding one real 6GG with 40k men would be enough to slaughter opposition's generals one by one with tactics and his own monstrous strength along with his dead previous generals and a monstrous bull like MouBu. If not totally crushing the Chu army, Ouki with his tactics would definitely be able to stall them and than reduce them slowly and neatly.
Going with numbers, it was already 540k men from coalition against 240k of Qin. And they were still able to thoroughly slaughtered opposition generals and defending the gate.
That's why new 40k with one 6gg against 115k Juuko/KouChou won't make over the top for Coalition.
Every single one of the general on Qin side was far more experienced and decisive than generals on Coalition side (except Shun Shin Kun and Ordo).
Nahh. Adding one real 6GG with 40k men would be enough to slaughter opposition's generals one by one with tactics and his own monstrous strength along with his dead previous generals and a monstrous bull like MouBu. If not totally crushing the Chu army, Ouki with his tactics would definitely be able to stall them and than reduce them slowly and neatly.
Going with numbers, it was already 540k men from coalition against 240k of Qin. And they were still able to thoroughly slaughtered opposition generals and defending the gate.
That's why new 40k with one 6gg against 115k Juuko/KouChou won't make over the top for Coalition.
Every single one of the general on Qin side was far more experienced and decisive than generals on Coalition side (except Shun Shin Kun and Ordo).
Zhao Wing would probably remain the same, if not lean in Zhao's Favor, but Duke Hyou would likely hold them off.
Chu Wing is tricky, Rinbukun still dies 100%, problem is how the Juuko Generals interact with Kanmei and Karin. Despite Manu's strength, I doubt he'd be allow to fight Moubu before Kanmei due to the latter's arrogance. If Moubu fights Kanmei still, the same result will still happen, after that I have zero idea. Moubu would be beat out and Genu or Sentoun would both be capable of fighting Tou.
Here's the thing though, the Wei/Han and Yan sides don't change a thing. Ousen would still stop the Chu from flanking and Kanki/Mougou would still stop the Wei/Han assaults. Albeit add a Juuko General to that assault and Ousen is having an immensely more difficult time, but here's the Qin Counter: Akou! Akou should logically still be with Ousen despite us not seeing him in this arc (given Makou's presence in this same time period), and Akou should hold up on his own against any Juuko general (Genu is mostly featless and Sentoun's best feat is holding off Ranbihaku+Rokuomi, while Akou managed to hold off Gyouun+Bananji)
And I FORGOT about Ouki's presence. Given the situation of the battlefield, he's either at Zhao or Chu stands (likely Chu), and there's not a single Chu General (even Manu) who I think would slay Ouki in battle, and Ouki+Moubu+Tou would very much so hold the line (Ouki likely stops the flanking as well). Put him against Keisha & Kochou and I still don't see anything changing. Raido killed Ryuu Haku Kou, and Shin at General level killed Gaku Haku Kou in one clean hit, so no one, and I mean NO ONE, on that Zhao side is beating Ouki 1v1.
If Riboku's sneaky plan goes into effect, Duke Hyou would still stall and Sai would roughly remain the same unless if someone like Gaku Haku Kou also joined in.
So final verdict-
Kankoku Pass remains a stalemate/Qin Victory
Sai- likely Qin victory as well, assuming who joins with Riboku.
Chu Wing is tricky, Rinbukun still dies 100%, problem is how the Juuko Generals interact with Kanmei and Karin. Despite Manu's strength, I doubt he'd be allow to fight Moubu before Kanmei due to the latter's arrogance. If Moubu fights Kanmei still, the same result will still happen, after that I have zero idea. Moubu would be beat out and Genu or Sentoun would both be capable of fighting Tou.
Here's the thing though, the Wei/Han and Yan sides don't change a thing. Ousen would still stop the Chu from flanking and Kanki/Mougou would still stop the Wei/Han assaults. Albeit add a Juuko General to that assault and Ousen is having an immensely more difficult time, but here's the Qin Counter: Akou! Akou should logically still be with Ousen despite us not seeing him in this arc (given Makou's presence in this same time period), and Akou should hold up on his own against any Juuko general (Genu is mostly featless and Sentoun's best feat is holding off Ranbihaku+Rokuomi, while Akou managed to hold off Gyouun+Bananji)
And I FORGOT about Ouki's presence. Given the situation of the battlefield, he's either at Zhao or Chu stands (likely Chu), and there's not a single Chu General (even Manu) who I think would slay Ouki in battle, and Ouki+Moubu+Tou would very much so hold the line (Ouki likely stops the flanking as well). Put him against Keisha & Kochou and I still don't see anything changing. Raido killed Ryuu Haku Kou, and Shin at General level killed Gaku Haku Kou in one clean hit, so no one, and I mean NO ONE, on that Zhao side is beating Ouki 1v1.
If Riboku's sneaky plan goes into effect, Duke Hyou would still stall and Sai would roughly remain the same unless if someone like Gaku Haku Kou also joined in.
So final verdict-
Kankoku Pass remains a stalemate/Qin Victory
Sai- likely Qin victory as well, assuming who joins with Riboku.
you're not giving enough credit for our Jukko boys, they were all GG in their own rights and were practically undefeated. Also, Ouki still has to personally take the helm to deal with Kanmei in a duel. He can't oversee the whole battlefield in doing so which gives other Generals to stomp. Also, there is Karin whose full potential is yet to be seen. So, unless Ouki manages to low diff Kanmei in mere seconds or a minutes top he won't be able to manipulate the whole battlefield and work his way through.