Chapter Discussion This chapter proved Shanks is not a "true" swordsman

By people who actually accept what the manga tells us instead of making up bunches of headcanon to justify XYZ.
On this forum alone, the fandom out there mostly claims Shanks as the strongest. Stop lying.

You're in a bubble of zorotards, don't think what you say here is something everyone agrees on, when it isn't.
 
Stop quoting me in multiple posts, i wont respond to everything.
You are being disrespectful, I took my time to explain to you what the epithet means. I love Shanks, I prefer him over Mihawk and I've myself put Shanks over Mihawk in the past. However, you have to be objective here and there is no room for emotions. If you don't want to listen and respond, that's your choice.

Its okay for you to want WSS having the strongest haki and all
Did you read anything I said? It seems to me as if you just read what you wanted to read.

I won't emphasize this enough, WSS = world's strongest swordsman = the strongest among all swordsmen. Mihawk and Shanks are swordsmen which makes Mihawk > Shanks. They are rivals so it's more Mihawk >= Shanks.

I understood your point of view. I know what you are trying to say. I myself said that in the past. I know what you are saying. You are literally saying that you can be a swordsman and still defeat the WSS if you have a stronger haki. However, this argument is fallacious. I've myself used it. The problem is that WSS means "the strongest among all swordsmen", not the "sword user who cuts the best". If you can't understand or accept this, there is nothing I can do.

If you don't want to listen and you want to keep defending your opinion that's on you. I tried my best to reason with you.
 
You are being disrespectful, I took my time to explain to you what the epithet means. I love Shanks, I prefer him over Mihawk and I've myself put Shanks over Mihawk in the past. However, you have to be objective here and there is no room for emotions. If you don't want to listen and respond, that's your choice.


Did you read anything I said? It seems to me as if you just read what you wanted to read.

I won't emphasize this enough, WSS = world's strongest swordsman = the strongest among all swordsmen. Mihawk and Shanks are swordsmen which makes Mihawk > Shanks. They are rivals so it's more Mihawk >= Shanks.

I understood your point of view. I know what you are trying to say. I myself said that in the past. I know what you are saying. You are literally saying that you can be a swordsman and still defeat the WSS if you have a stronger haki. However, this argument is fallacious. I've myself used it. The problem is that WSS means "the strongest among all swordsmen", not the "sword user who cuts the best". If you can't understand or accept this, there is nothing I can do.

If you don't want to listen and you want to keep defending your opinion that's on you. I tried my best to reason with you.
When you understand that Haki is what matters and those who have the strongest Haki like Roger and Shanks triumph in the end, you will stop with these giant posts trying to prove something that does not hold within the manga.
 

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
Now I understand what Mihawk bros deal with in a daily basis.

Luffy uses haki but he is still a devil fruit user
Shanks uses haki but he is still a swordsman

Swordsmanship and devil fruits are fighting technique and abilities

Haki is what puts one at the top

WSS means you are greatest among all swordsmen, regardless of what puts you at the top. Though it's haki that puts a swordsman at the top
Now do you see how retarded the arguments are? XDD.

Haki is just a stat enhancer. Luffy was a brawler/Df user both before and after Haki, Zoro was a Swordsman both before and after Haki, Sanji was a martial artist both before and after haki.

Im thankful though... this chapter reduced the Shanks > Mihawk arguments to either ridiculously outlandish ones or simply saying he's Oda's self insert he ignores every setup established priorly. Both of which are retarded.
 
You are being disrespectful, I took my time to explain to you what the epithet means. I love Shanks, I prefer him over Mihawk and I've myself put Shanks over Mihawk in the past. However, you have to be objective here and there is no room for emotions. If you don't want to listen and respond, that's your choice.


Did you read anything I said? It seems to me as if you just read what you wanted to read.

I won't emphasize this enough, WSS = world's strongest swordsman = the strongest among all swordsmen. Mihawk and Shanks are swordsmen which makes Mihawk > Shanks. They are rivals so it's more Mihawk >= Shanks.

I understood your point of view. I know what you are trying to say. I myself said that in the past. I know what you are saying. You are literally saying that you can be a swordsman and still defeat the WSS if you have a stronger haki. However, this argument is fallacious. I've myself used it. The problem is that WSS means "the strongest among all swordsmen", not the "sword user who cuts the best". If you can't understand or accept this, there is nothing I can do.

If you don't want to listen and you want to keep defending your opinion that's on you. I tried my best to reason with you.
That's absolutely not the argument though.
Once again, let's go back to King.
He is a person who uses a sword, and therefore can be called a swordsman, right? Well wrong because Zoro outright denies him that title, and calls him a Killing Machine instead.

Therefore we conclude that being a swordsman is not up to just using a sword or not, but abiding by a set of swordsmanship rules, or an essence of swordsmanship.
If King had won against Zoro using his full arsenal of attacks, he would NOT be a stronger swordsman than Zoro, because he wouldn't be using Swordsmanship. King would need to beat Zoro using swordsmanship to be able to call himself a stronger swordsman.

People are just applying the exact same logic, already demonstrated in the manga, to Shanks vs Mihawk. Does Shanks have a fighting style that can not be considered swordsmanship? Are Roger's combined blasts of air with CoC truly a swordsmanship technique? Those are the things that are being put into question.

Everyone thought King was a swordsman before Zoro called him out on not being one just because he carried a sword and swinged it around.
 
That's absolutely not the argument though.
Once again, let's go back to King.
He is a person who uses a sword, and therefore can be called a swordsman, right? Well wrong because Zoro outright denies him that title, and calls him a Killing Machine instead.

Therefore we conclude that being a swordsman is not up to just using a sword or not, but abiding by a set of swordsmanship rules, or an essence of swordsmanship.
If King had won against Zoro using his full arsenal of attacks, he would NOT be a stronger swordsman than Zoro, because he wouldn't be using Swordsmanship. King would need to beat Zoro using swordsmanship to be able to call himself a stronger swordsman.

People are just applying the exact same logic, already demonstrated in the manga, to Shanks vs Mihawk. Does Shanks have a fighting style that can not be considered swordsmanship? Are Roger's combined blasts of air with CoC truly a swordsmanship technique? Those are the things that are being put into question.

Everyone thought King was a swordsman before Zoro called him out on not being one just because he carried a sword and swinged it around.
All good, except that Oda calls Shanks a swordsman.
 
All good, except that Oda calls Shanks a swordsman.
First of all, he has never done such thing, in fact the opposite is true where Oda has made a distincrion between Shanks and other True Swordsmen.
Second: Being a swordsman doesn't mean he has adhere at every point to the rules of swordsmanship. I could learn how to play football for fun but not be pro and dedicate my entire life to it. I'd then technically be a "football player" cause I'd know how to play, but doesn't mean I'm as dedicated as others.
 
Now do you see how retarded the arguments are? XDD.

Haki is just a stat enhancer. Luffy was a brawler/Df user both before and after Haki, Zoro was a Swordsman both before and after Haki, Sanji was a martial artist both before and after haki.

Im thankful though... this chapter reduced the Shanks > Mihawk arguments to either ridiculously outlandish ones or simply saying he's Oda's self insert he ignores every setup established priorly. Both of which are retarded.
"shanks is luffy's mentor/idol/end goal"
 
Second: Being a swordsman doesn't mean he has adhere at every point to the rules of swordsmanship. I could learn how to play football for fun but not be pro and dedicate my entire life to it. I'd then technically be a "football player" cause I'd know how to play, but doesn't mean I'm as dedicated as others.
This is a great way to explain it. If I may add, it's the same thing that we do with devil fruit users.

Luffy is a devil fruit user
Law is a devil fruit user
Kid is a devil fruit user

Luffy's fruit has been weak until awakening
Law's fruit has always been stronger than Luffy's before gear 5
Kid's fruit has always been stronger than Luffy's before gear 5

Luffy uses all forms of haki and has strong haki
Law barely uses haki
Kid barely uses haki

If we ignore for a second that Luffy has the sun god Nika and still has a "rubber fruit".

If we had to give the epithet "world's strongest devil fruit user", who would get it?

Shanks defenders would say that Law is the "world's strongest devil fruit user" because he has the strongest devil fruit.

However, in reality, "world's strongest devil fruit user" epithet, if it uses the same kanji than WSS, means "the strongest among all devil fruit users".

So, it's Luffy who would have the epithet among the three because he has the strongest haki and so, it puts him at the top of the devil fruit users. It doesn't matter what he uses to defeat them, he is a devil fruit user and so, he is in that competition.

Now, apply this same exact logic to WSS and Mihawk/Shanks. The epithet means "the strongest among all swordsmen".

Following this logic, you can understand there is:
- the strongest among all devil fruit users
- the strongest among all swordsmen
- the strongest among all punch users

You could argue that the epithet "the strongest man" or "strongest creature" is for the person who is really at the top and is the strongest among ALL PEOPLE.

The WSS could be the strongest man if he defeats other people than swordsmen.

@uyuu
 
I

Don't know what you're trying to point here. What does Zoro's title have to do with Shanks?
Oda literally said that Shanks is a swordman/sword master, contrary to what you believe
Post automatically merged:

Ask Oda where and how he has defined what being a "True Swordsman" is in 1000+ chapters of this Manga and he'll laugh at you
Oda in next SBS: bro swordman = guy who fights with sword
 
Top