Controversial General Political Discussion
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A series of rabbis and cantors have told me it was like the Pilgrims and Indians…the natives in both scenarios actually WANTED to give up their land to the colonizers and were happy to lose their homes if it meant a bunch of light-skinned rich folks would continue prospering at their expense?? Is that not the truth?? 
A series of rabbis and cantors have told me it was like the Pilgrims and Indians…the natives in both scenarios actually WANTED to give up their land to the colonizers and were happy to lose their homes if it meant a bunch of light-skinned rich folks would continue prospering at their expense?? Is that not the truth??
they dont actually match the definition, since colonizing is about a country seizing control over other lands. jews didnt have any country before the formation of israel, so that simply doesnt work. im generally fine with the term being used for israel as a country, but its just intellectually lazy and dishonest to call "the vast majority" of israelis colonizers, or white.
Colonisation companies weren’t colonizers because they weren’t a country 
2) words do have different meanings in different contexts.
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Colonisation companies weren’t colonizers because they weren’t a country
I mean you can justify it like that if you want.
but they did conquer the land and expel its inhabitants.
What my rabbi told me is that some people willingly left and others were expelled.
Which I suppose is true. But if you leave your land, fleeing a war, and the new regime just claims it and refuses to let you return, I can see why the Palestinians would be angry about that.
but they did conquer the land and expel its inhabitants.
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A series of rabbis and cantors have told me it was like the Pilgrims and Indians…the natives in both scenarios actually WANTED to give up their land to the colonizers and were happy to lose their homes if it meant a bunch of light-skinned rich folks would continue prospering at their expense?? Is that not the truth??
Which I suppose is true. But if you leave your land, fleeing a war, and the new regime just claims it and refuses to let you return, I can see why the Palestinians would be angry about that.
it is multifactorial, land was bought, people fled on their own volition or because arab leaders told them to, and people were actively expelled. Also other countries like egypt or jordan tried to seize parts of the region as well.
100%, but with that same energy i can see why jews would be angry, since they have historically been among the most discriminated against people and were expelled from a ridiculous amount of places.
Its super annoying that both sides ignore these nuances in their propaganda, and is honestly the reason why i dont think a one state solution will ever work, and im even doubtful that there will be lasting peace with israel in that region.
the zionist movement should have created a jewish state somewhere else, regardless of their religious sites.
100%, but with that same energy i can see why jews would be angry, since they have historically been among the most discriminated against people and were expelled from a ridiculous amount of places.
Its super annoying that both sides ignore these nuances in their propaganda, and is honestly the reason why i dont think a one state solution will ever work, and im even doubtful that there will be lasting peace with israel in that region.
the zionist movement should have created a jewish state somewhere else, regardless of their religious sites.
I’m sure both are true, but I would wager the ratio skews heavily in one direction in terms of how many people chose which option…still, Jews have been nomads since biblical times, so yeah, I’d also be pissed off if a squatter took over my house while I was on vacation and used the full weight of a nation’s military to prevent me from taking it back when I returned 
You point was (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Leftism was infamously disorganized and fractured (which I agreed with) and the fact that leftist don't act with the media being against them in mind. Which I disagreed with showing you how, no matter how you act as a leftist, the power through media will ALWAYS try to discredit the radical in favor of the apolitical or non violent one to maintain its own power.
You can't say "it's pseudoscientific" when you reject science mate... That's not how rationality works..
And you were already wrong.
Yes they are. They can have more biases, but that precisely why they need more data and more attention.
Say the fascist. But yeah, there are different forms of fascism. All bad. And all far rightists.
Nuance is a concept that also needs nuance. Being nuanced about everything is as stupid as being open to every ideas. An absolutely opened mind is as dangerous as a completely closed one.
+1
Nah... that's actually precisely my point. Without women starting to demand their right violentely and women thinking and radicalizing their thinking process and then protesting again and again... there wouldn't have the right to vote. Non violence as a way for change is a liberal illusion that invizibilizes the actual years or decades of struggle, often violent and radical that preceded the obtention of a right.
Nah, that's my pov. I'm talking personally with urgency here as there is a genocide happening. The point about ethnonationalism stands on its own. No matter what form, zionism is a colonial and ethnonationalist rooted ideology that can only create a form of fascism.
Buuuuurn
Yup they were debunked and at the very worst, not confirmed in any way. I invite you to make little researches.
Things that you have been ignoring clearly:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06...ve-wounded-palestinian-tied-vehicle/104012064
(this type of thing is daily, it's systemic)
Hamas is not in control of Palestine, but Gaza. And it's not in control, it's fighting for control. The IDF is in control of Gaza. THerefore when you ask "who did these milicia managed to do such horrible things?" the answer is Israel fund and helped them do it.
Dude. This is literally a war crime shot on camera. And it's only a few week old:
Israel did not only do one war crime, but HUNDREDS on top of a genocide. When Israel destroys an hospital with people inside of it, it's a war crime my guy. Time to wake the F up. The international courts needs time to investigate, but they are already moving.
Taking over people's home is not an aggression? Colonization is not an agression? Genocide is not an agression? War crimes are not an agression? Keeping an entire population in a constant state of dehumanization and oppression, not an agression? You are wired backward mate. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Inform yourself on the subject (don't worry, I know you won't).
Comparable, but not worse indeed.
I mean.. Trump is already destroying judge of the ICC in France for investigating Israel ....
There is a french man who has been completely cut from society because of that. (no more access to bank account etc.)
lmaoooo
Colonization is not only necessarily taking over other's people land, it's also and foremost a form of exploitation and subjugation. Colonialism happens to this day in Sudan and Congo and yet, you do not see the West taking over parts of lands. There are actually many form of colonialism and what is happening in Israel at the moment (but also in the US in a way) is settler colonialism. Non native Israeli are colonist by def.
You can't say "it's pseudoscientific" when you reject science mate... That's not how rationality works..
And you were already wrong.
Yes they are. They can have more biases, but that precisely why they need more data and more attention.
Say the fascist. But yeah, there are different forms of fascism. All bad. And all far rightists.
Nuance is a concept that also needs nuance. Being nuanced about everything is as stupid as being open to every ideas. An absolutely opened mind is as dangerous as a completely closed one.
+1
Nah... that's actually precisely my point. Without women starting to demand their right violentely and women thinking and radicalizing their thinking process and then protesting again and again... there wouldn't have the right to vote. Non violence as a way for change is a liberal illusion that invizibilizes the actual years or decades of struggle, often violent and radical that preceded the obtention of a right.
Nah, that's my pov. I'm talking personally with urgency here as there is a genocide happening. The point about ethnonationalism stands on its own. No matter what form, zionism is a colonial and ethnonationalist rooted ideology that can only create a form of fascism.
Here, I’ll throw an anti-woke bread crumb to our resident dipshit bootlickers…I worked in retail as a teenager and once said “Merry Christmas” to a customer after ringing them up, and they frowned and said, “You know, you should really say ‘Happy Holidays’ because some people DON’T celebrate Christmas”; I responded, “Yeah, I’m one of them, but it doesn’t bother me” and they left in a huff 
Yup they were debunked and at the very worst, not confirmed in any way. I invite you to make little researches.
Things that you have been ignoring clearly:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06...ve-wounded-palestinian-tied-vehicle/104012064
(this type of thing is daily, it's systemic)
Hamas is not in control of Palestine, but Gaza. And it's not in control, it's fighting for control. The IDF is in control of Gaza. THerefore when you ask "who did these milicia managed to do such horrible things?" the answer is Israel fund and helped them do it.
Dude. This is literally a war crime shot on camera. And it's only a few week old:
Israel did not only do one war crime, but HUNDREDS on top of a genocide. When Israel destroys an hospital with people inside of it, it's a war crime my guy. Time to wake the F up. The international courts needs time to investigate, but they are already moving.
Taking over people's home is not an aggression? Colonization is not an agression? Genocide is not an agression? War crimes are not an agression? Keeping an entire population in a constant state of dehumanization and oppression, not an agression? You are wired backward mate. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Inform yourself on the subject (don't worry, I know you won't).
Comparable, but not worse indeed.
I mean.. Trump is already destroying judge of the ICC in France for investigating Israel ....
There is a french man who has been completely cut from society because of that. (no more access to bank account etc.)
A series of rabbis and cantors have told me it was like the Pilgrims and Indians…the natives in both scenarios actually WANTED to give up their land to the colonizers and were happy to lose their homes if it meant a bunch of light-skinned rich folks would continue prospering at their expense?? Is that not the truth??
Colonization is not only necessarily taking over other's people land, it's also and foremost a form of exploitation and subjugation. Colonialism happens to this day in Sudan and Congo and yet, you do not see the West taking over parts of lands. There are actually many form of colonialism and what is happening in Israel at the moment (but also in the US in a way) is settler colonialism. Non native Israeli are colonist by def.
If we do make the distinction for the sake of argument, what exactly does it matter in this context? Choosing to leave when the other option is being a victim of physical violence isn’t a difficult choice, so effectively, you’re being pushed out either way…if someone tells you can stay and be punished or leave on your own accord, you’re probably not gonna find any solace in the notion that you “chose” to escape a certain fate when it was gonna happen regardless.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out
ye well if you are just going to ignore that actual revolutionary change has happened in human history through peaceful protests, be my guest.
it still paints a massively different picture if we do make the distinction, regardless of any argument. and mind you that alot of this flight happened before the formation of israel, during the civil war within the british mandate (that also was initiated by arab forces)
@Logiko
skip to minute 5 for the song
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ye well if you are just going to ignore that actual revolutionary change has happened in human history through peaceful protests, be my guest.
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it still paints a massively different picture if we do make the distinction, regardless of any argument. and mind you that alot of this flight happened before the formation of israel, during the civil war within the british mandate (that also was initiated by arab forces)
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@Logiko
skip to minute 5 for the song
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That brings back some memories lol
Change happens because of two major factor : 1. The transformation of the mode of production. 2. People fighting for change.
MLK was not the first to fight for equality. I will later share a thread explaining how struggles (that are considered woke today) were actually theorized as far back as 130 year in the past. Non violence only workas a contrast to other people who struggled in the dark.
Yeah, I was listening a lot of Minchin in my critical thinking and new atheist years lol. Very funny and talented guy
Change happens because of two major factor : 1. The transformation of the mode of production. 2. People fighting for change.
MLK was not the first to fight for equality. I will later share a thread explaining how struggles (that are considered woke today) were actually theorized as far back as 130 year in the past. Non violence only workas a contrast to other people who struggled in the dark.
Yeah, I was listening a lot of Minchin in my critical thinking and new atheist years lol. Very funny and talented guy