Break Week Separating the Strawhats for WCI was Narratively Unnecessary

[Garp the Fist]

Big break week rant

I get why the Dressrosa split happened.
First of all, the Strawhats really weren’t the focus of Dressrosa, bar Usopp and maybe Franky, It was Law, the Grand Fleet, the Riku family and Dressrosa natives, Sabo, Doflamingo and his crew, Fujitora. That is, to be fair to Oda, a hell of a lot of characters to balance. I can understand, then, Oda cutting half the crew out when he did. To be honest, Zoro and Robin could have went with them and not much would have changed, it would just have needed someone else to fight Pica (keep in mind at the time the crew separated Pica had not done anything in story. Oda could easily from there had written him as someone that, say, Cavendish could have beaten, and then Ideo or Orlumbus could have got a full fight.) But anyway, that’s not really important to the point I’m making.

There‘s also setting up WCI to consider. I’d say that separating Sanji from Luffy, in particular, and making him already gone, that did make sense as a trigger for WCI happening. It preserves the mystery of what was happening with Sanji. It would also have been difficult to write Sanji leaving without the Strawhats immediately following. Not impossible, but difficult. Now, I’m not saying Oda had no choice but to write the Curlyhats out of Dressrosa, but structurally I think do think it worked, and had a worthy payoff

That is not the case with the crew splitting for WCI.

I think everyone realises why it happened. Half the crew missed Dressrosa so the other half misses Wano. Makes sense, but a story should not be a balancing act like that. Unlike Dressrosa, WCI is an arc where the bonds between the crew are paramount. Losing half the crews reaction to that over a misguided sense that it somehow evens itself out, I do not see that as the right call. Because we get to see Zoro and Usopp beat Pica and Sugar, we don’t get to see how they would react to the events of Sanji trying to leave them and fighting Luffy? How does that make sense? It would be like pre-skip Oda deciding “well, Zoro and Chopper got one vs ones on Skypiea and the others didn’t, so I’ll leave them out of Ennies Lobby and dealing with Robin and Usopp.‘

Nor does the in-series excuse make sense. The Dressrosa one did- things were crazy so the Strawhats couldn’t afford to bring another influence like a Warlord in, and they had to protect Momo and keep Caesar away from Doflamingo.

The in-series excuse for not going to WCI did not make sense. The first one was that the Strawhats couldn’t take on two Yonko at the same time. But that’s ... exactly what they then went on to do anyway.
The second was about the numbers. I don’t think that adds up either. Is there really much of a difference between infiltrating a place with eleven people rather than eight? I don’t see it. There was also the nonsense that the full crew somehow would mean all out war- again, how exactly? Look at Onigashima, there’s literally thousands involved to try and take one down- and that was also meant to be an infiltration mission.

So the question then is, was it necessary for the Wanohats to go ahead to set up the plot? The answer to that is no. The Strawhats presence on Wano before Luffy arrived there was essentially meaningless. The only thing that happened was Zoro vs the magistrate, and Oda could have cut that out without the plot changing at all.

Say all the Strawhats are there going into Wano. Same opening scene happens- ship gets caught in a whirlpool. Have Zoro jump after Luffy to try and save him so that both wash up on the shore. Act One then precedes exactly as it did, the Strawhats at the start of Act Two then are all in their places.

 

[KiriNigiri]

Having half the crew missing for 2 whole years was a mistake, imo. So much time that could've aided in some growth along the way lost. I also think that the substitutes, Carrot and Pedro, did not benefit much from the ordeal. Pedro's sacrifice was almost pointless as Persopero was fine, and all the pay off Pedro's story will somehow get is an unnecessary tertiary conflict between the mink girls and Peros on Onigashima. Carrot didn't get much, either, only showcasing sulong which was gonna be revealed on Wano anyway.

Besides giving the WCIhats a chance to shine, I think Oda also wanted to display how overwhelming an emperor crew was by cutting the Strawhat's fighting force almost in half, but that resulted in a lot more plot induced stupidity to save the protagonists. If the full crew was there, there wouldn't have been a need for as much fake tension or empty consequences.

 

[Ace]

It’s low key hilarious and sad that in a Sanji’s centered arc, the two main characters that Sanji has the most moments with(Zoro,Usopp) aren’t in it.

Sanji has saved Usopp so many times so the fact that Usopp didn’t help Sanji is disappointing

Zoro and Sanji’s relationship could’ve have been much more developed and not just gags.

 

[The White Crane]

Agreed.

Just another reason why WCI is difficult to like. I would have loved to see Zoro vs Smoothie in WCI (especially since BMP is sidelined in Wano so far). Sanji not having a decisive fight at all, even against a mid-tier veteran like Oven or Daifuku, was disappointing at best.

The chapters spent on BM hunger pangs could have been spent on the SHs soloing the monsters of BMP.

Also, what made it hard for me to like Dressrosa, too, was the fact that Oda could have easily given Doffy more executives for Sanji, Robin, Brook, Chopper, and Nami to solo before the Curlyhats have to high tail it out of Dressrosa. Of those names, only Brook got to solo anybody at all (and his enemy was reused for Leo), which was stupid as fuck.

That's why, I don't care if Usopp and Nami need Tama to win against Ulti and P1. I don't care if Chopper only fights against the strongest number. I will gladly welcome Maria vs Robin and Brook vs WW, just DO YOUR MAIN CHARACTERS JUSTICE ALREADY, ODA, FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

Rant's over.

 

[Topi Jerami]

Oda saved Katakuri from Zoro.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

LOL I wonder what would happen to the people that said Zoro will leave the crew after he saw Sanji fighting Luffy

Oda saved Katakuri from Zoro.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Zoro and Robin could have went with them and not much would have changed, it would just have needed someone else to fight Pica

Oda explained this didn't he? Zoro being there would've directly resulted in an actual war.

I think they say it twice in the arc that they didn't come to fight or else they would've brought Zoro along.

Zoro can't be in a fighting arc and not fight. And if we assume Luffy still fights Cracker and Katakuri, Zoro would clear out Smoothie and like Perospero or Daifuku and at that point its an actual war. Also thats like an extra 20 chapters of fighting

Secondly, Zoro in Zou was directly established to have way too strong opinions on the Sanji business. The entire point of WCI would have gotten derailed because Zoro wouldn't just keep quiet or cry like Nami and the rest did. Zoro has a very specific personality and Oda actually goes out of his way to prevent Zoro's personality from clashing with the story he wants to tell. For example in DRessrosa, do you remember that ODa went out of his way to have Zoro doing nothing and getting lost so that Luffy could enter the tournament for the fire fruit? do you realise what would've happened if ZOro was left to enter that tournament? It literally could've easily devolved into aa Luffy vs Zoro fight and its very hard to say that either one of them would just let the other win and already the story has turned upside down.

Notice that anytime Oda has Zoro actively participate in plots, its for very serious situations where a lot of power is needed besides luffy or Zoro's forceful personality is changing something important.

For WCI to stay the same when Zoro is there, you would need to have Zoro just captured in MOnt D'or's book prison from the start to the very end of the arc. Like Film Gold, which is one of the movies supervised by Oda himself. EVen in that movie, the writers knew that Zoro's personality plus how actually strong he is can easily derail any story that isn't actually focusing on combat and so ZOro gets removed from the story so that the strawhats can dick around for an hour instead of like Zoro telling luffy not to fuck around and the two just blitzing the casino and beating everyone up.

Yeah I'm focusing on Zoro and not the other wano strawhats because its obvious that he's the one the plot has to bend over backwards the most to accomodate so the story would have to change the most to have him there but doing nothing

 

[Jew D. Boy]

With the way Linlin has been clowned since the middle of WCI, that whole arc would have been 20 chapters shorter had all the Straw Hats come to save Sanji, and it would have ended with Big Mom’s death

 

[mosaab]

Oda explained this didn't he? Zoro being there would've directly resulted in an actual war.

I think they say it twice in the arc that they didn't come to fight or else they would've brought Zoro along.

Zoro can't be in a fighting arc and not fight. And if we assume Luffy still fights Cracker and Katakuri, Zoro would clear out Smoothie and like Perospero or Daifuku and at that point its an actual war. Also thats like an extra 20 chapters of fighting

Secondly, Zoro in Zou was directly established to have way too strong opinions on the Sanji business. The entire point of WCI would have gotten derailed because Zoro wouldn't just keep quiet or cry like Nami and the rest did. Zoro has a very specific personality and Oda actually goes out of his way to prevent Zoro's personality from clashing with the story he wants to tell. For example in DRessrosa, do you remember that ODa went out of his way to have Zoro doing nothing and getting lost so that Luffy could enter the tournament for the fire fruit? do you realise what would've happened if ZOro was left to enter that tournament? It literally could've easily devolved into aa Luffy vs Zoro fight and its very hard to say that either one of them would just let the other win and already the story has turned upside down.

Notice that anytime Oda has Zoro actively participate in plots, its for very serious situations where a lot of power is needed besides luffy or Zoro's forceful personality is changing something important.

For WCI to stay the same when Zoro is there, you would need to have Zoro just captured in MOnt D'or's book prison from the start to the very end of the arc. Like Film Gold, which is one of the movies supervised by Oda himself. EVen in that movie, the writers knew that Zoro's personality plus how actually strong he is can easily derail any story that isn't actually focusing on combat and so ZOro gets removed from the story so that the strawhats can dick around for an hour instead of like Zoro telling luffy not to fuck around and the two just blitzing the casino and beating everyone up.

Yeah I'm focusing on Zoro and not the other wano strawhats because its obvious that he's the one the plot has to bend over backwards the most to accomodate so the story would have to change the most to have him there but doing nothing

is that bad though? just because you can see the strings that doesn't mean the puppet show is bad for its intended audience, which was always 13 year olds.

 

[Orojackson Refugee]

Yeah, some events should already transpired before luffy arrived at wano (franky realizing that the blueprint was not at carpenter's hand, usopp had finished sending the meeting notes for wano samurais, zoro had been acquintance with yasuie). I guess oda just want to put the whole wano plot started only when luffy arrived at wano

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

is that bad though? just because you can see the strings that doesn't mean the puppet show is bad for its intended audience, which was always 13 year olds.

But then it creates the air of "wasting time"

I don't believe there's anyone who liked the fact that Zoro's spends half of dressrosa getting lost so that Oda doesn't have him derail the story. Like if Oda doesn't want Zoro to get involved in the colloseum, why not come up with a better way than "he was running around looking for his swords".

Or why not just have Zoro join the colloseum and Oda has to do some clever writing to prevent the entire plot point from just ending up as Zoro vs luffy which it would've become.

One good way Oda did prevent Zoro from derailing the story was when he had fujitora step in between Zoro trying to attack doffy. Fujitora being number of times stronger than everyone there immediately justifies Zoro's inaction without it being as uneventful as Zoro just got lost or whatever

I know 13 yr olds probably wouldn't notice these sorts of things, which is what Oda wants, but at the same time 13 year olds wouldn't actually enjoy Zoro running around doing nothing. Oda is either fostering his audience to at best ignore what Zoro is doing or at worst just dislike what Zoro is doing, all in the name of plot

 

[Midnight Delight]

Yeah, some events should already transpired before luffy arrived at wano (franky realizing that the blueprint was not at carpenter's hand, usopp had finished sending the meeting notes for wano samurais, zoro had been acquintance with yasuie). I guess oda just want to put the whole wano plot started only when luffy arrived at wano

Zoro letting Wano citizens see his blade was honestly embarrassing. Why did Oda have Zoro talk about "Getting serious now that we are in the new world" if he's gonna have him be that careless?

 

[Orojackson Refugee]

Zoro letting Wano citizens see his blade was honestly embarrassing. Why did Oda have Zoro talk about "Getting serious now that we are in the new world" if he's gonna have him be that careless?

for the same reason why oda still let the future PK be careless in NW.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Oda explained this didn't he? Zoro being there would've directly resulted in an actual war.

I think they say it twice in the arc that they didn't come to fight or else they would've brought Zoro along.

Zoro can't be in a fighting arc and not fight. And if we assume Luffy still fights Cracker and Katakuri, Zoro would clear out Smoothie and like Perospero or Daifuku and at that point its an actual war. Also thats like an extra 20 chapters of fighting

Secondly, Zoro in Zou was directly established to have way too strong opinions on the Sanji business. The entire point of WCI would have gotten derailed because Zoro wouldn't just keep quiet or cry like Nami and the rest did. Zoro has a very specific personality and Oda actually goes out of his way to prevent Zoro's personality from clashing with the story he wants to tell. For example in DRessrosa, do you remember that ODa went out of his way to have Zoro doing nothing and getting lost so that Luffy could enter the tournament for the fire fruit? do you realise what would've happened if ZOro was left to enter that tournament? It literally could've easily devolved into aa Luffy vs Zoro fight and its very hard to say that either one of them would just let the other win and already the story has turned upside down.

Notice that anytime Oda has Zoro actively participate in plots, its for very serious situations where a lot of power is needed besides luffy or Zoro's forceful personality is changing something important.

For WCI to stay the same when Zoro is there, you would need to have Zoro just captured in MOnt D'or's book prison from the start to the very end of the arc. Like Film Gold, which is one of the movies supervised by Oda himself. EVen in that movie, the writers knew that Zoro's personality plus how actually strong he is can easily derail any story that isn't actually focusing on combat and so ZOro gets removed from the story so that the strawhats can dick around for an hour instead of like Zoro telling luffy not to fuck around and the two just blitzing the casino and beating everyone up.

Yeah I'm focusing on Zoro and not the other wano strawhats because its obvious that he's the one the plot has to bend over backwards the most to accomodate so the story would have to change the most to have him there but doing nothing

I don’t think Zoro is hard to write around in WCI at all.

Before the turning point in WCI of Sanji going back to the crew and the plot of the Tea Party, there were four major plotlines.
1- Luffy and Nami vs Cracker then getting captured
2- Sanji’s solo plotline
3- Carrot and Chopper in Mirror World
4- Brook and Pedro hunt for the Red Poneglyph.

Zoro, Usopp, Robin and Franky would need split up among those plotlines.
Zoro would have to be kept out of plotline 1 which overlapped post Cracker fight. You could, however, add any of the other Strawhats to this one without too much of a problem.
Plotline 4 would have Robin written all over it.
Zoro, I think, would be put in plot line 3. Having him lost in the mirror world would be an opportunity Oda would easily take. He could throw him an easy fight in there to keep him occupied.
Usopp and Franky could be split in any way between 1 and 4, but Usopp would probably be better for the sneaky stuff in 4, and they could then have Franky play a role in the Cracker fight and battle against the Enraged Army.

Once the Strawhat reunion happened at the mid way point and the four plotlines coalesced, there would then need to be half a chapter( at least) of payoff between him and Sanji, but it wouldn’t need to be that big a deal. It’s quite clear from Wano that Zoro is actually rather pleased that Sanji has came back. Zoro would call Sanji an idiot, sulk for a bit, maybe punch him like Luffy did, with Sanji not fighting back because he feels he deserves it, but there wouldn’t need to be any more than that.

After that, there isn’t actually a problem. The plan would still be “assassinate Big Mom and run away.” At the Tea Party all Oda would need to do with Zoro would be have him clash with Smoothie or Katakuri or something like that during the bit where BM was comatose after the cake was destroyed. Basically... like everyone else was doing. Then he either stays inside Capone‘s castle or gets beaten with Luffy, Sanji and Germa. Either way, no need for him to get special treatment and a full fight.

Then it’s the run away part of the plot, again, no need for a fight for him anymore than there was for Jinbei. He’d be doing the same thing, guardinf the ship and getting a bit of hype for holding off Big Mom. And, I think, it would have had the added bonus of keeping BM’s reputation a bit if she was fighting more of the crew.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Why did Oda have Zoro talk about "Getting serious now that we are in the new world" if he's gonna have him be that careless?

You mean the shit that happened Offscreen?

do you have a proof that Zoro got caught because he was careless?

no. it was offscreen. The same way the strawhats got magically sttronger between ennies lobby and water seven OFF SCREEN. Its just a framing device. Oda wants the story to begin in a specific way and so he uses "off screen" to justify "anything couldve happened" and then the story is immeditealy framed in a certain way

You guys really should try to understand that Plot has way more effect on events than you think. You guys think plot only affects fights and power levels? it affects everything

 

[Fn Lucci]

Big break week rant

I get why the Dressrosa split happened.
First of all, the Strawhats really weren’t the focus of Dressrosa, bar Usopp and maybe Franky, It was Law, the Grand Fleet, the Riku family and Dressrosa natives, Sabo, Doflamingo and his crew, Fujitora. That is, to be fair to Oda, a hell of a lot of characters to balance. I can understand, then, Oda cutting half the crew out when he did. To be honest, Zoro and Robin could have went with them and not much would have changed, it would just have needed someone else to fight Pica (keep in mind at the time the crew separated Pica had not done anything in story. Oda could easily from there had written him as someone that, say, Cavendish could have beaten, and then Ideo or Orlumbus could have got a full fight.) But anyway, that’s not really important to the point I’m making.

There‘s also setting up WCI to consider. I’d say that separating Sanji from Luffy, in particular, and making him already gone, that did make sense as a trigger for WCI happening. It preserves the mystery of what was happening with Sanji. It would also have been difficult to write Sanji leaving without the Strawhats immediately following. Not impossible, but difficult. Now, I’m not saying Oda had no choice but to write the Curlyhats out of Dressrosa, but structurally I think do think it worked, and had a worthy payoff

That is not the case with the crew splitting for WCI.

I think everyone realises why it happened. Half the crew missed Dressrosa so the other half misses Wano. Makes sense, but a story should not be a balancing act like that. Unlike Dressrosa, WCI is an arc where the bonds between the crew are paramount. Losing half the crews reaction to that over a misguided sense that it somehow evens itself out, I do not see that as the right call. Because we get to see Zoro and Usopp beat Pica and Sugar, we don’t get to see how they would react to the events of Sanji trying to leave them and fighting Luffy? How does that make sense? It would be like pre-skip Oda deciding “well, Zoro and Chopper got one vs ones on Skypiea and the others didn’t, so I’ll leave them out of Ennies Lobby and dealing with Robin and Usopp.‘

Nor does the in-series excuse make sense. The Dressrosa one did- things were crazy so the Strawhats couldn’t afford to bring another influence like a Warlord in, and they had to protect Momo and keep Caesar away from Doflamingo.

The in-series excuse for not going to WCI did not make sense. The first one was that the Strawhats couldn’t take on two Yonko at the same time. But that’s ... exactly what they then went on to do anyway.
The second was about the numbers. I don’t think that adds up either. Is there really much of a difference between infiltrating a place with eleven people rather than eight? I don’t see it. There was also the nonsense that the full crew somehow would mean all out war- again, how exactly? Look at Onigashima, there’s literally thousands involved to try and take one down- and that was also meant to be an infiltration mission.

So the question then is, was it necessary for the Wanohats to go ahead to set up the plot? The answer to that is no. The Strawhats presence on Wano before Luffy arrived there was essentially meaningless. The only thing that happened was Zoro vs the magistrate, and Oda could have cut that out without the plot changing at all.

Say all the Strawhats are there going into Wano. Same opening scene happens- ship gets caught in a whirlpool. Have Zoro jump after Luffy to try and save him so that both wash up on the shore. Act One then precedes exactly as it did, the Strawhats at the start of Act Two then are all in their places.

"But anyway, that's not important"

It is important as it's basically the crux of what you say. Oda could have done anything, but he did a specific something. I mean that's just how storytelling works and these nitpicks are you saying you would have done differently in GtF Piece. Not because it's anything objectively more logical, though, as people will disagree.

1. It wasn't a balancing act in story. What we would call the meta reason comes from nearly a year and a half of not showcasing the other characters, sure. There are people who complain about the Straw Hats not getting enough individual showings... so which is it? Long stretches with subdivisions or padding an arc more than they already are so we can see more reactions to the same situations? Zoro was explicitly asked and said, as it fits his character, that he didn't give a shit about going. A minimal contact rescue mission with a guy who can't find his way around shit and basically fights as his only contribution? His reaction to seeing Sanji's verbally abusive dad? The Straw Hats who went had the guilt of allowing him to be taken, why would you try to shoehorn Usopp?

2. The idea that they couldn't fight. Yes they're fighting an emperor in their territory and fighting two emperors at that. But that's obviously not by their design. The former part is because they have the full combat roster of Zou (ready to die for their purpose, not necessarily before), the rounded up samurai, and the Hearts who had no obligation to reach WCI. Nevermind potential allies like Marco. That's sounds reasonable for taking on a single emperor to us... but even then Kinemon says the raid isn't exactly an all out brawl.

3. Ahead of one fight, again, the idea isn't to take risks. Dressrosa held unforeseen circumstances like Fujitora and things got worse with time. If things had gone to plan then there wouldn't have been the foothold for Big Mom's goons. Burgess wouldn't have had his attempt at Luffy, either. Can you imagine having Franky, instead of working on weapons go and get caught up fighting Cracker? Robin is good at these sort of missions, but they already had a fighter lile Pedro and even then the mission began with failure as they were identified immediately. What if having more people meant getting caught up long enough for someone from the Beasts to catch on and show up like Bege did?

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

I don’t think Zoro is hard to write around in WCI at all.

Before the turning point in WCI of Sanji going back to the crew and the plot of the Tea Party, there were four major plotlines.
1- Luffy and Nami vs Cracker then getting captured
2- Sanji’s solo plotline
3- Carrot and Chopper in Mirror World
4- Brook and Pedro hunt for the Red Poneglyph.

Zoro, Usopp, Robin and Franky would need split up among those plotlines.
Zoro would have to be kept out of plotline 1 which overlapped post Cracker fight. You could, however, add any of the other Strawhats to this one without too much of a problem.
Plotline 4 would have Robin written all over it.
Zoro, I think, would be put in plot line 3. Having him lost in the mirror world would be an opportunity Oda would easily take. He could throw him an easy fight in there to keep him occupied.
Usopp and Franky could be split in any way between 1 and 4, but Usopp would probably be better for the sneaky stuff in 4, and they could then have Franky play a role in the Cracker fight and battle against the Enraged Army.

Once the Strawhat reunion happened at the mid way point and the four plotlines coalesced, there would then need to be half a chapter( at least) of payoff between him and Sanji, but it wouldn’t need to be that big a deal. It’s quite clear from Wano that Zoro is actually rather pleased that Sanji has came back. Zoro would call Sanji an idiot, sulk for a bit, maybe punch him like Luffy did, with Sanji not fighting back because he feels he deserves it, but there wouldn’t need to be any more than that.

After that, there isn’t actually a problem. The plan would still be “assassinate Big Mom and run away.” At the Tea Party all Oda would need to do with Zoro would be have him clash with Smoothie or Katakuri or something like that during the bit where BM was comatose after the cake was destroyed. Basically... like everyone else was doing. Then he either stays inside Capone‘s castle or gets beaten with Luffy, Sanji and Germa. Either way, no need for him to get special treatment and a full fight.

Then it’s the run away part of the plot, again, no need for a fight for him anymore than there was for Jinbei. He’d be doing the same thing, guardinf the ship and getting a bit of hype for holding off Big Mom. And, I think, it would have had the added bonus of keeping BM’s reputation a bit if she was fighting more of the crew.

You realise in this instance, Zoro has had NO CONTRIBUTION TO THE ARC?

Hell in this case Brook has had more contribution to the arc than the second strongest person in the group? Saying Zoro doesn't bodybag at least Smoothie would literally mean Zoro was in the arc for NOTHING. Get it? Nami said this? Zoro being in the arc directly results into an actual fight

If you dont want Zoro's contribution to be his strength then its his personality. And Zoro witnessing Sanji beat up luffy WOULD NOT just play out anywhere close to the same in any stretch of the imagination. Hell no. You say Zoro in Wano is okay with Sani, but you seem to not mention he wasn't there. If Zoro wasnt in Water seven or ennies lobby and was just told "Ussop left for a bit and returned" Zoro would be okay as well. But we saw what happened when Zoro was actuaally there.

You can't write out both Zoro's strength and his personality and then expect that he should even be in the arc. What's the point of him being there when he does nothing?

 

[Paperchampion23]

It was just a narrative measure. He left half the crew out for 2 years in DR so he wanted to focus on them for WCI without having everyone present. This helped the Wano reunion feel at least like a bigger payoff.


Now, was it worth it? Imo, no because really only Luffy, Jinbe and Brook got amazing moments. Chopper was fucked over again and Carrot overshadowed him. Nami got Zeus and currently lost it (though I have a feeling she's stealing Zeus and Prometheus now). Sanji was immensely fucked over by the plot imo (I personally thought his "betrayal" to protect Zeff was silly). I also don't get why Oda didn't at least draw him fighting Oven more. Heat vs. Heat would have been an awesome matchup for a few chapters even if its obvious Sanji would overpower him, just something to make the arc climax more impressive outside of a Luffy fight. But potentially thats the point? Maybe the BMP go down in Wano?

Just seems odd to have BMP members show up at Wano and Oda (so far) hasn't capitalized on using many of them and seemingly has left Oven back at WCI.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Zoro and Sanji’s relationship could’ve have been much more developed and not just gags.

Developed into what though? Its been gags for 800 chapters by that time. What exactly would it ever develop into.

Development in their relationship is equivalent to actual development in their characters and that can't happen remember? The entire arc was Oda saying Sanji's character is perfectly fine the way it is. So adding "development" would mean something about Sanji would change and yet the arc was specifically about him NOT CHANGING.

The only people besides Luffy in the crew who have had development continuously thoughout the story are Zoro and Usopp. Everyone else is supposedly perfectly fine the way they are. Thats why Zoro's development never has anything to do with anyone besides luffy or Usopp. Zoro's relationship with the rest of the crew is either non-existent or just gags. and thats how it will be.

 

[Garp the Fist]

There are people who complain about the Straw Hats not getting enough individual showings... so which is it? Long stretches with subdivisions or padding an arc more than they already are so we can see more reactions to the same situations?

That’s what I’m saying. I wanted the padding. I want to see how the other Strawhats would react to Sanji’s story. I think that would have made the arc much stronger, because the bond between all the Strawhats is one of the strongest parts of One Piece and cutting them out of an arc focused on the Strawhat bond was a poor decision that was only made for meta-reasons, that did not have a worthy payoff.

2. The idea that they couldn't fight. Yes they're fighting an emperor in their territory and fighting two emperors at that. But that's obviously not by their design. The former part is because they have the full combat roster of Zou (ready to die for their purpose, not necessarily before), the rounded up samurai, and the Hearts who had no obligation to reach WCI. Nevermind potential allies like Marco. That's sounds reasonable for taking on a single emperor to us... but even then Kinemon says the raid isn't exactly an all out brawl.

I‘m not sure what your point is here,

Can you imagine having Franky, instead of working on weapons go and get caught up fighting Cracker?

Uh, yes. Very easily. Nami managed it, why couldn’t Franky. I wouldn’t even have the slightest problem with that happening, given that Franky’s anti-Kaido weapons
a) so far do not exist and have no effect on the plot
b)could have been made in the time gap between Acts 2 and 3 where the alliance was preparing for war anyway

You realise in this instance, Zoro has had NO CONTRIBUTION TO THE ARC?

Uh, no, he’d be there, we‘d see him fighting, we’d see him interact with the other crew especially Sanji. That’s a contribution to the arc.

Certainly far more of a contribution to the arc than what we got, which was two years of him being completely absent. That’s what I call NO CONTRIBUTION TO THE ARC. And for what, so he can have a cool scene where he ultimately does nothing more than cut fodder? Yeah, I’d have much rather had him on WCI, even if he didn’t beat anyone important.

I also don't get why Oda didn't at least draw him fighting Oven more. Heat vs. Heat would have been an awesome matchup for a few chapters

I would money on the that being Oda’s original plan which he cut out to try and speed up the end of the arc.

And we instead got Sanji vs Page One in Wano instead to make up for it, which had absolutely no effect on the plot.

Post automatically merged: Dec 5, 2020

I seriously don’t get how anyone can argue against me here

Like, imagine you have a magic machine that can allow you to rewrite WCI.

You have two options

Option A- what we got, no Zoro, Usopp, Robin or Franky
Option B- the addition of the Strawhats to WCI, which does not broadly change the outcome of either arc but allows us to spend more time with our main characters

Why the fuck would anyone pick option A? Does anyone absolutely love Zoro vs the magistrate that much? The two pages each that Usopp, Robin and Franky got in Act 1 where it was shown that during WCI they really didn’t do much in Wano?

The only reason I can think anyone would still pick Option A would be that they were still fuming that the Curlyhats missed most of Dressrosa and feel it needed to be balanced out. Which is... petty.