Speculations 95% Chance Zoro is the Dawn (Toki)

#41
I like your post, but I wanna mention one thing.
The eternal grave thing was only a custom in Ringo. Not in all of Wano. So much so that Kawamatsu asked Hyori if she even knew what he was talking about when he explained it. So not even all people inside Wano know it exists if Kawamatsu has to ask.
This doesn't discredit your points, I just want to make clear that it's possible that people outside of Ringo don't really visit graves in Ringo because that tradition is only super significant to people inside Ringo.
And also, eternal graves don't have pictures on them do they? Correct me if I misremember. But from what I recall Kawamatsu told us two main things.
1: The people in Ringo get a sword AT BIRTH.
2: When they die, the sword they got at birth is put on their grave.
Because of that, Ringo has a graverobber problem. Once again confirming that this is EXCLUSIVE to Ringo, otherwise other regions would have the same graverobber problems, not just Ringo.

Again, I liked your post in general, just wanted to point out this one thing because the people don't necessarily need to know what Ryuma looked like. Although I agree that there is most likely portraits of him kept safe in Wano somewhere and people are most likely shown pictures of him in history class as children, assuming portraits of Ryuma were kept and renewed over the years.
Okay, I like your argument, I'll do you one better. I'll reinforce my reasons as to why I stated what I did.

1. Yes everyone doesn't visit Ringo. Eternal Graves are a Ringo custom. However, we have two characters who were never situated in Ringo who knows of Ryuma's appearance, Kawamatsu and Hyogoro.

2. Ryuma is their God. His body was only stolen 23 years ago from the graves, it was preserved. So it would be very unlikely for people to not know what he looked like. And like you said, there should be murals and paintings, because Komurasaki, who isn't even the country's god, had paintings and murals.

Adding on, Zoro fought Ryuma's body which had decayed for the past 23 years without Ringo's preservation, and despite that, the corpse was still in relatively good shape, so imagine when it was still in the Eternal Graves. But even if the whole of Wano doesn't know what he looks like, lots of notable people did, The Shimotsuki's, Kawamatsu, Hyogoro, (Izo and O-kiku very likely) etc... The fact that their is record of his appearance is enough that there is some descriptor for ryuma's appearance, whether it be his body 23 years ago or a painting. He is the country's God after all.

Now for your eternal grave questions.

1. Yes, people of Ringo are bestowed Swords at birth.

2. Yes, their Swords act as Grave Markers when they die. However, their body is also buried with these swords. Ryuma's corpse was stolen with his body, and remember Kawamatsu described the preservation of corpses because of the cold.
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Can you quote your source on Wakadan’na ever being used for young dawn? It’s only ever seemingly used for “young gentleman” or “young sir” as a polite way to acknowledge another person.
Source?

This is me translating, I am the source.
若= Young
旦 = Day/Morning
若旦 = Wakadan (Wake of Dawn) = Young Morning/Dawn
若旦那 =Wakadana(Wake of Dawn) = Young Master

This is also interesting because this is the only use of this specific honorific so far in Wano, I'll have to reread to make sure, and Zoro's the only referred to as such; by an old-timer who spent time with Toki, and is quite crafty with puns.

You can also ask @Aknolagon or @PuckTheGreat to see if they agree with me.
 
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Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 ⚛️
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#42
Okay, I like your argument, I'll do you one better. I'll reinforce my reasons as to why I stated what I did.

1. Yes everyone doesn't visit Ringo. Eternal Graves are a Ringo custom. However, we have two characters who were never situated in Ringo who knows of Ryuma's appearance, Kawamatsu and Hyogoro.

2. Ryuma is their God. His body was only stolen 23 years ago from the graves, it was preserved. So it would be very unlikely for people to not know what he looked like. And like you said, there should be murals and paintings, because Komurasaki, who isn't even the country's god, had paintings and murals.

Adding on, Zoro fought Ryuma's body which had decayed for the past 23 years without Ringo's preservation, and despite that, the corpse was still in relatively good shape, so imagine when it was still in the Eternal Graves. But even if the whole of Wano doesn't know what he looks like, lots of notable people did, The Shimotsuki's, Kawamatsu, Hyogoro, (Izo and O-kiku very likely) etc... The fact that their is record of his appearance is enough that there is some descriptor for ryuma's appearance, whether it be his body 23 years ago or a painting. He is the country's God after all.

Now for your eternal grave questions.

1. Yes, people of Ringo are bestowed Swords at birth.

2. Yes, their Swords act as Grave Markers when they die. However, their body is also buried with these swords. Ryuma's corpse was stolen with his body, and remember Kawamatsu described the preservation of corpses because of the cold.
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Source?

This is me translating, I am the source.
若= Young
旦 = Day/Morning
若旦 = Wakadan (Wake of Dawn) = Young Morning/Dawn
若旦那 =Wakadana(Wake of Dawn) = Young Master

This is also interesting because this is the only use of this specific honorific so far in Wano, I'll have to reread to make sure, and Zoro's the only referred to as such; by an old-timer who spent time with Toki, and is quite crafty with puns.

You can also ask @Aknolagon or @PuckTheGreat to see if they agree with me.
I would not be surprised if Zoro was from Ringo at this stage.
 
#47
Okay, I like your argument, I'll do you one better. I'll reinforce my reasons as to why I stated what I did.

1. Yes everyone doesn't visit Ringo. Eternal Graves are a Ringo custom. However, we have two characters who were never situated in Ringo who knows of Ryuma's appearance, Kawamatsu and Hyogoro.

2. Ryuma is their God. His body was only stolen 23 years ago from the graves, it was preserved. So it would be very unlikely for people to not know what he looked like. And like you said, there should be murals and paintings, because Komurasaki, who isn't even the country's god, had paintings and murals.

Adding on, Zoro fought Ryuma's body which had decayed for the past 23 years without Ringo's preservation, and despite that, the corpse was still in relatively good shape, so imagine when it was still in the Eternal Graves. But even if the whole of Wano doesn't know what he looks like, lots of notable people did, The Shimotsuki's, Kawamatsu, Hyogoro, (Izo and O-kiku very likely) etc... The fact that their is record of his appearance is enough that there is some descriptor for ryuma's appearance, whether it be his body 23 years ago or a painting. He is the country's God after all.

Now for your eternal grave questions.

1. Yes, people of Ringo are bestowed Swords at birth.

2. Yes, their Swords act as Grave Markers when they die. However, their body is also buried with these swords. Ryuma's corpse was stolen with his body, and remember Kawamatsu described the preservation of corpses because of the cold.
Post automatically merged:



Source?

This is me translating, I am the source.
若= Young
旦 = Day/Morning
若旦 = Wakadan (Wake of Dawn) = Young Morning/Dawn
若旦那 =Wakadana(Wake of Dawn) = Young Master

This is also interesting because this is the only use of this specific honorific so far in Wano, I'll have to reread to make sure, and Zoro's the only referred to as such; by an old-timer who spent time with Toki, and is quite crafty with puns.

You can also ask @Aknolagon or @PuckTheGreat to see if they agree with me.
Just for arguments sake I wanna mention that Kawamatsu obviously has spent some notable time in Ringo, otherwise Onimaru wouldn't have cried in happiness that Kawamatsu is still alive right?
Secondly, Hyogoro is the dude connected to all of Wanos Yakuza, he used to be the boss of the Yakuza COUNTRY WIDE.
So these 2 actually have a good chance to have been in Ringo a lot in their life.

But I don't really wanna argue the point because, as you said yourself, I agree to the idea that Ryuma had murals and portraits done of him which were distributed in the entire country for education in history. Even if the country at large may not care so much about eternal graves, the DEFINITELY care about the sword god who single handedly protected their country from the entire outside world.
So I think people don't know how Ryuma looks from his grave, I suspect Ryumas picture is a common sight in Wanos history books and children would learn and read about him at school.

Lastly, I'm really interested in how Ryumas grave looks. Zoro said he would like to visit it later so we will probably see it in detail after the raid.
Because I'm interested if there is even a picture there. As the graves we saw were just normal graves with a sword stuck in the earth.
I bet Ryuma has a proper shrine with a portrait and incense or something.
 
#48
Just for arguments sake I wanna mention that Kawamatsu obviously has spent some notable time in Ringo, otherwise Onimaru wouldn't have cried in happiness that Kawamatsu is still alive right?
Secondly, Hyogoro is the dude connected to all of Wanos Yakuza, he used to be the boss of the Yakuza COUNTRY WIDE.
So these 2 actually have a good chance to have been in Ringo a lot in their life.

But I don't really wanna argue the point because, as you said yourself, I agree to the idea that Ryuma had murals and portraits done of him which were distributed in the entire country for education in history. Even if the country at large may not care so much about eternal graves, the DEFINITELY care about the sword god who single handedly protected their country from the entire outside world.
So I think people don't know how Ryuma looks from his grave, I suspect Ryumas picture is a common sight in Wanos history books and children would learn and read about him at school.

Lastly, I'm really interested in how Ryumas grave looks. Zoro said he would like to visit it later so we will probably see it in detail after the raid.
Because I'm interested if there is even a picture there. As the graves we saw were just normal graves with a sword stuck in the earth.
I bet Ryuma has a proper shrine with a portrait and incense or something.
I like the argument for Hyogoro, but not for Kawamatsu. Kawamatsu did not spend much time in Ringo pre-Kaido/pre-Grave-robbery.

Onimaru only cried for Kawamatsu, because years after the fall of Ringo, Kawamatsu went to Ringo to commit suicide, but didn't because he found out Onimaru was protecting the eternal graves. But Kawamatsu did know details of Ushimaru so I concede to your possible conclusions.

But yes, I hope we get a more detailed look at Ryuma's shrine/gravesite. Hopefully, there's picture so Oda can have Zoro say "Weird looking guy" even though Ryuma looks just like him.
 
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#49
even cultist arent this delusional
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holy shit zoro fans

are something else
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"Dawn" :suresure:
 
#56
ok mailo stop crying

i will not judge you for having zolo as yo idol

just move on from yo edgy phase
Ooh the 'stop crying' thing. You are definitely triggered :gokulaugh:

Nah don't stop your judgemnt kid :goyea:, how a fictional character triggers folks like you is facinating to watch :milaugh:.

Nah i'll stick to this 'edgy phase' thanks :cheers:
 
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