Anime & Manga Admiral Lee Hung's Rare Meme Repository

Sword & Admiral Quality

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𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭

Doesn't that make Zoro a hypocrite? If he joins in on the stupidity. We get they're pissed but Bigger picture would mean taking down Kaidou and not some fodder.
Oda wanted them to get pissed at it. I guess it's supposed to drive home just how atrocious/unacceptable it is.


𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
Luffy got mad at Shanks for not defending himself and the bandits making fun of him and wasting alchohol...etc... Shanis tells him they can make fun of him and spit on him but hurt his friends hell bring hell to them or something.... I can't remember it exactly...

Bellamy in Jaya tried to rouse Luffy to no avail until he attacked his new friend.
Those instances were about personal insult. Luffy and Zoro weren't reacting to personal insult last chapter.


You can't win
Well the majority of fans think the Yonko are a step above so idk what majority @Bogard is talking about. If you look at the Yonko vs Admiral poll in the battledome, the people who correctly read the manga and believe Yonko> Admirals significantly outnumber those who believe they are equal :myman:.
I was referring to the vocal crowd. The admiral crowd is more vocal here(though a bit due to the help of their new admiral/sword alliance). We need more vocal yonko crowd to balance things up :optimistic:


𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
Well the majority of fans think the Yonko are a step above so idk what majority @Bogard is talking about. If you look at the Yonko vs Admiral poll in the battledome, the people who correctly read the manga and believe Yonko> Admirals significantly outnumber those who believe they are equal :myman:.

While majority belief is not an argument in itself, we should look at the arguments from the other side to be sure if we have anything to worry about :zorothink:. What do they generally consist of? the same tired memes spammed in every thread :cheers:

So there is no real good faith debate. So I just put out my arguments not to convince the Admiral fan (Can't convince someone in a cult), but to provide comfort for the Yonko fan that they are indeed correct in their assessment.

I mean just the other day there was a victory lap for some random magazine entry. When I posted that in a databook supervised by Oda, it said Marco=Admirals suddenly it was non-canon :denzimote:
Sure, most casual fans believe Yonkou > Admirals. Among the arena regulars though, very few of the gΓ³od posters believe the weakest of the original 4 Yonkou is stronger than the strongest of the logia trio. I care more about what decent posters think than what the majority does.


𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
You're using terms like 'good' and 'decent' but what does that mean? For me I look at the arguments not the posters. On that basis at least to me, The Yonkou are portrayed as a step above. As for the 'weakest' Yonko, unless we're talking Teach, Shanks, Kaido and BM were in a stalemate for years, indicating near equality.

Who are these 'good' posters?
I believe that: the weakest of the original Yonkou (Oldbeard, Kaido, Big Mom and Shank) is weaker than the strongest of the original admirals (Sakazuki, Kuzan and Borsalino).

To be fair, I genuinely changed my mind on this topic. I debated vehemently for the opposite position for a while and I defended two "Yonkou level characters" (Mihawk and Shanks) beating the logia trio some years back. My best assessment of the evidence led me to the position I stated above in bold.

Below are those I consider "top tier" among the Arena regulars. My assessment is admittedly biased, but I tried to be fair.
Arena Tier List
This topic comes up a lot, so I thought I'd post mine here, so I can easily link it if need be.

This is probably my definitive tier list of arena regulars. I only included my top tier posters because:
  • I'm a lot more confident in these placements than of those lower in my tier list.
    • It's easier to more accurately assess those I consider top tier than those I consider "high tier", "mid tier", etc.
  • Including lower tiers is likely to generate a lot of salt.
    • Folks ranked in mid tier or low tier may feel understandably offended.
  • I'm curious what other people's top tier look like.
    • Sharing mine may generate discussion and incentivise them to share theirs.

That said, my list:
Tier List
High Top Tier
  • Light D Lamperouge
  • Veku
  • Sentinel
  • Silverfire-
  • ZenZu-

Mid Top Tier
  • Haoshoku
  • Bogard+
  • Gol D. Roger
  • Cinera+
  • Zenos7-
  • KiriNigiri
  • Comrade
  • HeroesNZ
  • Admiral Lee Hung
  • Xione
  • Hero Garp
  • TheAncientCenturion
  • Nidai_Kitetsu-

Low Top Tier
  • Rivaille+
  • BossYimz
  • Dragomir
  • worst pirate+
  • Usopp Haoshoku Haki
  • Van
  • RayanOO
  • playa4321
  • ShishioIsBack
  • Robin swan

+: Might be rated in the next higher tier
-: Might be rated in the next lower tier

I didn't rate some folks because they haven't been active/I haven't read that many of their posts. Some names I'm cognisant of leaving out: Afro King, Buggy D ClowN.

Things I considered:
  • How solid their professed power level takes are:
    • @ShishioIsBack and @Admiral Lee Hung get penalised here due to their outrageous Zoro and admiral wank respectively.
    • I should probably also get penalised here, but I try to temper the takes I defend.
      • My more idiosyncratic takes regarding Zoro that could credibly be considered "wank":
        • Pica is a high mid tier overall:
          • Without his devil fruit, he is one of the stronger mid mid tiers (he would still beat Diamante and Cavendish though in difficult drawn out fights).
          • In Dressrosa specifically, he may be a low high tier level threat.
        • DR Santoryu Zoro was a peak low high tier or bottom mid high tier character.
          • I think he could have beaten Cracker back then.
          • I think he could have beaten G2/G3 Luffy with medium difficulty.
    • I consulted the top 50 lists of some folks when evaluating them, and I've otherwise read all the posts in Veku's thread.
    • I want to maintain some charity towards people with different takes from me. Folks who believe Zoro is substantially weaker than I do should get some benefit of the doubt. I don't want to be too dogmatic about power level opinions, especially when I may be proven wrong.
  • Accuracy
    • I will revise individuals ratings based on their track records.
    • People who endorsed takes that aged well should be revised upwards.
    • Folks who endorsed takes that aged poorly should be revised downwards.
  • How good are the arguments they raise.
    • The presentation of the arguments themselves.
    • How often arguments are supported with panels/other pieces of evidence.
    • The rhetoric used in arguments.
    • Persuasiveness of the arguments brought forth.
  • Civility
    • I penalise folks for incivility and otherwise antisocial behaviour.
    • @ShishioIsBack gets hurt by this.
  • Flexibility
    • People willing to change their minds get bonus points.
    • @Sentinel gets a bonus here, he revised his estimate of Doffy upwards (YC 2) despite being one of the strongest advocates for Doffy being weaker.
  • Dishonesty/Bad Faith
    • Folks who are intellectually dishonest or otherwise engage in bad faith get penalised.
@Dragomir you mentioned wanting to see my list.

I'm not tagging folks cause I'm not sure how many people share my passion for ranking members and wouldn't want to annoy them. But do please tag folks you think would be interested.
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𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
Just a reminder that this a meme thread and not a power level discussion thread. :smithnie:
It's a meme thread about power level discussions and thus a meta power level discussion thread.

I don't think Yonko fans feel the need to debate because they have the manga and Oda. It's the Admiral/Sword fans that get riled up because they feel like they have something to prove, no? It's the fear of possibly being wrong that shakes them up :milaugh:
Nah, we just got trashed soundly in debates. I used to be a strong Yonkou stan as I explained earlier, but the Yonkou ~ Admiral side raised much better arguments and were thus more persuasive than the Yonkou > Admirals side. As a result, I eventually updated towards the belief that Yonkou > Admirals.

The short story is that these debates have already been had to the death back on OroJackson. There is a reason why the consensus among arena veterans is Yonkou ~ Admirals, and it's not because the Yonkou are uninspiring as characters (though they are). The war ended ages ago, and the Yonkou ~ Admirals side won. All that's left on the Yonkou side are arena rookies and a few stalwarts.

Just take a moment to understand how rare this is. True consensus among topics of contention is very rare (e.g. there's no consensus on how strong Doflamingo is). Reasonable people by and large disagree on whether Doflamingo is YC 3.5, YC 3, YC 2.5, YC 2 or YC 1.5. Reasonable people do not disagree that the original Yonkou and the original Admirals are on the same level.

The reason I don't participate in these debates is because as far as I'm concerned, the issue has been settled. Perhaps in future new evidence might arise to make me reevaluate my conclusion, but there hasn't been any cause to so far.

The Admiral stans are the few valiant warriors who tirelessly work to correct the misconceptions of the filthy casuals who don't know their way around a debate. The memes make the process fun for both sides, and the extreme positions they defend (Admiral >/>> Yonkou) are only to shift the Overton Window.

All of the above is a just a very long winded way of saying: there's no reasonable debate left to be had on this topic.

Incredibly underrated comment.