Arena General

[Cinera]

Profile pages are such an unwieldy medium for discussions and it can get pretty frustrating.

Use this thread for general power scaling discussions and such. If needed, more substantial disagreements can be moved to an appropriate thread.

I would basically treat this thread as my profile page, so expect low effort, random, and half baked ideas and such. I'll probably seek feedback on ideas I have for threads here before going ahead with them.

I'm taking suggestions for poll questions. I'll probably change the poll every week or two.


@Natalija, @Dragomir: if you think this belongs in the Ground Floor, feel free to move it there.

Spoiler: Tags

@Light D Lamperouge
@Sentinel
@silverfire
@ZenZu
@Haoshoku
@Bogard
@Gol D. Roger
@Cinera
@Zenos7
@KiriNigiri
@comrade
@HeroesNZ
@Admiral Lee Hung
@Xione
@Garp the Fist
@LuthonTheDragDown
@Nidai_Kitetsu
@Rivaille
@BossYimz
@Yo Tan Wa
@worst pirate
@Usopp Haoshoku Haki
@Van
@RayanOO
@playa4321
@ShishioIsBack
@Robin swan
@Kuro Ashi
@ShinmenTakezo
@Buggy D Clown

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

The Black Clover verse utterly annihilates the OP verse in terms of power. Black Clover high tiers are FTL and have amazing (relative to other Shonen) Hax. There are characters who can slice through dimensions, slice through any material regardless of durability or physical structure, characters who can just erase anything from space, etc.

And Black Clover top tiers are just absurd, Julius Novachrono being the best example probably. He fights with Time Magic, so he manipulates time during fights, effectively making him massively FTL and all of his attacks are time based: he can reverse, accelerate, or even erase the flow of time on certain points, meaning he could technically, in a single instant, turn Kaido back into a baby, make him ultra old, or just erase the flow of time around Kaido which would basically just remove him from existence. He can also reverse the time of any attack launched at him, which means he can send attacks of any strength level flying straight back at their opponents. Oh, and he can also accelerate the flow of time on attacks while reversing it, meaning he can send your own attack right back at you but stronger than it was before. And he can also reverse the time around his own injuries which heals himself, among other abilities related to time. This is just one example of the true ridiculousness of a Black Clover top tier.

Idfk, just generating discussion hopefully. Lmfao

 

[Cinera]

First topic of discussion. @sanjikun's recent thread about Dressrosa Law being Commander Level made me realise that there's a very strong case to be made for Pre Enma Santoryu Zoro being on par with commanders. I could make that case, but it would be a long essay, and I'm not particularly to undertake it, unless I feel that the case needs to be made.

Aside from the usual Zoro downplayers (you know yourselves), I want to know if people think that is an outlandish opinion. I generally believe that Santoryu Zoro could comfortably beat the following Commanders: Cracker, Jack and Smoothie. (Queen is much less clear cut due to his plague weapons).

If I do write such an essay, I would focus on the following:

• Combat statistics
  • Amazing offensive prowess
  • Impressive attack speed
  • CQC ability
• Portrayal
  • Vs Issho
  • Vs Scabbards
  • Vs Supernova

The Black Clover verse utterly annihilates the OP verse in terms of power. Black Clover high tiers are FTL and have amazing (relative to other Shonen) Hax. There are characters who can slice through dimensions, slice through any material regardless of durability or physical structure, characters who can just erase anything from space, etc.

And Black Clover top tiers are just absurd, Julius Novachrono being the best example probably. He fights with Time Magic, so he manipulates time during fights, effectively making him massively FTL and all of his attacks are time based: he can erase, accelerate, or even erase the flow of time on certain points, meaning he could technically, in a single instant, turn Kaido back into a baby, make him ultra old, or just erase the flow of time around Kaido which would basically just remove him from existence. He can also reverse the time of any attack launched at him, which means he can send attacks of any strength level flying straight back at their opponents. Oh, and he can also accelerate the flow of time on attacks while reversing it, meaning he can send your own attack right back at you but stronger than it was before. And he can also reverse the time around his own injuries which heals himself, among other abilities related to time. This is just one example of the true ridiculousness of a Black Clover top tier.

Idfk, just generating discussion hopefully. Lmfao

OP characters aren't that powerful in general in the grand schemes of things. They are also not as hax heavy as some comparable (in raw destructive capacity) verses.

 

[Owl Ki]

The Black Clover verse utterly annihilates the OP verse in terms of power. Black Clover high tiers are FTL and have amazing (relative to other Shonen) Hax. There are characters who can slice through dimensions, slice through any material regardless of durability or physical structure, characters who can just erase anything from space, etc.

And Black Clover top tiers are just absurd, Julius Novachrono being the best example probably. He fights with Time Magic, so he manipulates time during fights, effectively making him massively FTL and all of his attacks are time based: he can erase, accelerate, or even erase the flow of time on certain points, meaning he could technically, in a single instant, turn Kaido back into a baby, make him ultra old, or just erase the flow of time around Kaido which would basically just remove him from existence. He can also reverse the time of any attack launched at him, which means he can send attacks of any strength level flying straight back at their opponents. Oh, and he can also accelerate the flow of time on attacks while reversing it, meaning he can send your own attack right back at you but stronger than it was before. And he can also reverse the time around his own injuries which heals himself, among other abilities related to time. This is just one example of the true ridiculousness of a Black Clover top tier.

Idfk, just generating discussion hopefully. Lmfao

Damn, Black Clover characters are sounding like they could actually go toe-to-toe with Bleach characters. Lol.

 

[Cinera]

Do you guys still want to powerscale One Piece when Chopper apparently does more damage to Zoan Queen with an unnamed attack than Marco did to Base Queen with a named attack?

I think Chopper bitchslapping Queen like that is one of the more egregious instances of powerscaling inconsistency. The other example that comes to mind is Post Udon Luffy needing Boundman to escape Ulti's grip (Ulti herself appears like she would be defeated by Nami).

Unlike all the examples of Meme getting clowned on, this wasn't played for comedic relief or depicted as some sort of outlier, inconsistency or otherwise unrepresentative of Queen's combat prowess. Chopper just happens to have Boundman level AP in Monster Point.

Spoiler

@Light D Lamperouge
@Sentinel
@silverfire
@ZenZu
@Haoshoku
@Bogard
@Gol D. Roger
@Cinera
@Zenos7
@KiriNigiri
@comrade
@HeroesNZ
@Admiral Lee Hung
@Xione
@Garp the Fist
@LuthonTheDragDown
@Nidai_Kitetsu
@Rivaille
@BossYimz
@Yo Tan Wa
@worst pirate
@Usopp Haoshoku Haki
@Van
@RayanOO
@playa4321
@ShishioIsBack
@Robin swan
@Kuro Ashi
@ShinmenTakezo
@Buggy D Clown

 

[Sentinel]

Do you guys still want to powerscale One Piece when Chopper apparently does more damage to Zoan Queen with an unnamed attack than Marco did to Base Queen with a named attack?

Well, I've stopped caring about since the raid has started.

Nothing against Chopper showing something but this was FT levels of inconsistency, hence full bs.

 

[Rivaille]

Do you guys still want to powerscale One Piece when Chopper apparently does more damage to Zoan Queen with an unnamed attack than Marco did to Base Queen with a named attack?

I think Chopper bitchslapping Queen like that is one of the more egregious instances of powerscaling inconsistency. The other example that comes to mind is Post Udon Luffy needing Boundman to escape Ulti's grip (Ulti herself appears like she would be defeated by Nami).

Unlike all the examples of Meme getting clowned on, this wasn't played for comedic relief or depicted as some sort of outlier, inconsistency or otherwise unrepresentative of Queen's combat prowess. Chopper just happens to have Boundman level AP in Monster Point.

Spoiler

@Light D Lamperouge
@Sentinel
@silverfire
@ZenZu
@Haoshoku
@Bogard
@Gol D. Roger
@Cinera
@Zenos7
@KiriNigiri
@comrade
@HeroesNZ
@Admiral Lee Hung
@Xione
@Garp the Fist
@LuthonTheDragDown
@Nidai_Kitetsu
@Rivaille
@BossYimz
@Yo Tan Wa
@worst pirate
@Usopp Haoshoku Haki
@Van
@RayanOO
@playa4321
@ShishioIsBack
@Robin swan
@Kuro Ashi
@ShinmenTakezo
@Buggy D Clown

I do not see any issue without it.
I expect Zoro and Luffy to be top tier by the end of the arc therefore it seems logical to me that the rest of the crew follow suit.

What people should drop is the idea that there is a « powerlevel ladder » that the character need to climb. That we should see them work pass each level. And that if we do not see a character on one specific level or beating people of a specific level, we should not see him beat (or at least hurt) people above this specific level.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Do you guys still want to powerscale One Piece when Chopper apparently does more damage to Zoan Queen with an unnamed attack than Marco did to Base Queen with a named attack?

Chopper hit Queen in the face, Marco hit him in the torso. It’s only natural that Chopper would injure him more.

On the other hand, Chopper objectively did more damage to Queen in one strike then bloodlusted Big Mom did in two. Lol

 

[worst pirate]

Chopper > Marco > Big mom in AP if we compare them with respect to Queen’s durability .

Imo its one those things which leaves a bad taste in my mouth if analyzed strictly in accordance with power scaling . Guess Oda did it to give closure to the plot of between Queen and Chopper ( with their ideological differences) but it still reeks of generic bullshit if properly analyzed

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

Do you guys still want to powerscale One Piece when Chopper apparently does more damage to Zoan Queen with an unnamed attack than Marco did to Base Queen with a named attack?

I think Chopper bitchslapping Queen like that is one of the more egregious instances of powerscaling inconsistency. The other example that comes to mind is Post Udon Luffy needing Boundman to escape Ulti's grip (Ulti herself appears like she would be defeated by Nami).

Unlike all the examples of Meme getting clowned on, this wasn't played for comedic relief or depicted as some sort of outlier, inconsistency or otherwise unrepresentative of Queen's combat prowess. Chopper just happens to have Boundman level AP in Monster Point.

Spoiler

@Light D Lamperouge
@Sentinel
@silverfire
@ZenZu
@Haoshoku
@Bogard
@Gol D. Roger
@Cinera
@Zenos7
@KiriNigiri
@comrade
@HeroesNZ
@Admiral Lee Hung
@Xione
@Garp the Fist
@LuthonTheDragDown
@Nidai_Kitetsu
@Rivaille
@BossYimz
@Yo Tan Wa
@worst pirate
@Usopp Haoshoku Haki
@Van
@RayanOO
@playa4321
@ShishioIsBack
@Robin swan
@Kuro Ashi
@ShinmenTakezo
@Buggy D Clown

That's why i don't value feats as much as some people do.

Portrayal and hype >>>> feats, in One Piece

 

[comrade]

@Cinera hard to tell whether Chopper did more damage solely based on Queen spitting blood. Luffy's base kick/Punch made Katakuri/Doffy spit blood as well, while higher Gears did seemingly less damage.

Here we had Marco restraining Queen, Chooper boosting himself with a Rumble Ball and surprising Queen since Queen probably didn't expect that little reindeer to become so humongous. Similarily to Luffy's G3 Red Hoc taxing Kaido more than G4 later on.

Marco's attacks are still stronger.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

If you get hit in the face with enough force then you would bleed obviously. Marco hits Queen in the body so he bleeds less but Marco's AP >>>>>> Chopper's AP.

 

[Usopp Haoshoku Haki]

Well, this Chopper form is supposed to be his strongest.Pre-Timeskip he was a massive threat.It's obviously a very slow form, but if given a free hit like in this chapter, it only makes sense for this form to have big AP.
I actually like the fact that Monster Chopper is still quite a beast.

 

[Cinera]

Similarily to Luffy's G3 Red Hoc taxing Kaido more than G4 later on.

I think Red Roc simply did more damage than the Boundman attacks bar Kong Gatling. Red Roc is the G3 equivalent of Red Hawk, so its AP is on another level entirely from G3 attacks (and it might have been boosted by internal destruction COA).

Marco's attacks are still stronger.

Fair enough.

 

[Midnight Delight]

There was a legend about the Koitern. It was said that he would not kill you so long as you met his gaze. That some force of mutual defiance stayed the hand of death. Most disregarded the legend. Few tried it, and they found it to be true. Unfortunately, no one could meet his eyes forever. What no one knew was that the reverse of this effect was also true; the Koitern would not kill any who met his gaze, but none whose gaze he met could kill him.

 

[Cinera]

There was a legend about the Koitern. It was said that he would not kill you so long as you met his gaze. That some force of mutual defiance stayed the hand of death. Most disregarded the legend. Few tried it, and they found it to be true. Unfortunately, no one could meet his eyes forever. What no one knew was that the reverse of this effect was also true; the Koitern would not kill any who met his gaze, but none whose gaze he met could kill him.

Did you get lost?


If you're not trolling, I think you may have posted in the wrong thread.

 

[sneko]

Fillings are in

 

[Cinera]

Do you guys reckon Luffy and Zoro can defeat Base Kaido, or is Luffy's stamina insufficient?

Kong Gatling was able to knock down the more durable Dragon Kaido for a few seconds. That's more than enough time for Zoro to land Shi ShiShi Sonson or Hiryuu Kaen.

Giving that Zoro can readily cut Kaido in dragon form, he should be able to badly fuck up Base Kaido. With Luffy to worry about, Kaido wouldn't be able to focus his offence on Zoro.

Furthermore, after the spanking Kaido received in Dragon Form, he transformed into Hybrid, so I don't think his Base could have performed any better against the Supernova (even with Mama's assistance). Kaido did initially try to face the Supernova in Base (he launched four attacks with it), but he was summarily spanked and transformed into Dragon Form.

I think that while Luffy's stamina holds, the Luffy and Zoro combination are above Base Kaido. It's more a matter of whether they can deal enough damage to him, and if Zoro can hold off Base Kaido for ten minutes.

Zoro and 3 other Supernova are successfully fending off the much more powerful Hybrid Kaido and Linlin for the 10 minutes it takes Luffy to recover, so I feel that Zoro should be able to hold off Base Kaido for the required ten minutes (he's the most effective vs Kaido of the Supernova).


@Haoshoku, @ShishioIsBack, @ZenZu, @Nidai_Kitetsu, @LuthonTheDragDown.

 

[LadyVados]

@Cinera hard to tell whether Chopper did more damage solely based on Queen spitting blood. Luffy's base kick/Punch made Katakuri/Doffy spit blood as well, while higher Gears did seemingly less damage.

Here we had Marco restraining Queen, Chooper boosting himself with a Rumble Ball and surprising Queen since Queen probably didn't expect that little reindeer to become so humongous. Similarily to Luffy's G3 Red Hoc taxing Kaido more than G4 later on.

Marco's attacks are still stronger.

He made him spit blood. That is pretty impressive.

Post automatically merged: Mar 17, 2021

Do you guys reckon Luffy and Zoro can defeat Base Kaido, or is Luffy's stamina insufficient?

Kong Gatling was able to knock down the more durable Dragon Kaido for a few seconds. That's more than enough time for Zoro to land Shi ShiShi Sonson or Hiryuu Kaen.

Giving that Zoro can readily cut Kaido in dragon form, he should be able to badly fuck up Base Kaido. With Luffy to worry about, Kaido wouldn't be able to focus his offence on Zoro.

Furthermore, after the spanking Kaido received in Dragon Form, he transformed into Hybrid, so I don't think his Base could have performed any better against the Supernova (even with Mama's assistance). Kaido did initially try to face the Supernova in Base (he launched four attacks with it), but he was summarily spanked and transformed into Dragon Form.

I think that while Luffy's stamina holds, the Luffy and Zoro combination are above Base Kaido. It's more a matter of whether they can deal enough damage to him, and if Zoro can hold off Base Kaido for ten minutes.

Zoro and 3 other Supernova are successfully fending off the much more powerful Hybrid Kaido and Linlin for the 10 minutes it takes Luffy to recover, so I feel that Zoro should be able to hold off Base Kaido for the required ten minutes (he's the most effective vs Kaido of the Supernova).


@Haoshoku, @ShishioIsBack, @ZenZu, @Nidai_Kitetsu, @LuthonTheDragDown.

Luffy's stamina is insufficient. Zoro can.

 

[Cinera]

Luffy's stamina is insufficient. Zoro can.

I meant a team of Luffy and Zoro together, not either alone.