Questions & Mysteries Being specialist on one particular haki = strongest on that one particular haki?

[ranady]

Well i'm talking about when oda said that luffy is CoC specialist, zoro is CoA specialist, and sanji is CoO specialist in SHP crew (i forgot where he said that). If we take captain luffy as an example, does it mean luffy's CoA is weaker than zoro's and his CoO is weaker thab sanji's?
Or maybe even zoro and sanji already could use advanced CoA and CoO respectively compared to luffy who just learned advanced haki recently?

And for CoC, i think it's obvious that luffy's CoC is stronger than zoro's and sanji's (if they have any lol).

 

[KiriNigiri]

A typical fallacy spread. No, being a specialist in an area of haki doesn't mean you are better at it than another who doesn't specialize in that haki. It only means that's your best haki in a vacuum.

However, it's still possible for the specialist's haki to be greater than another's who doesn't specialize in it. For example, Luffy's objectively better at conqueror's haki than either Zoro or Sanji by virtue of being the only one on the crew who actually possesses it. (As far as we know.).

 

[OEKaneki]

No. Unequivocally no. This was already proven with the Big Mom pirates. Katakuri is absolutely a CoO specialist. Cracker was absolutely a CoA specialist. You can tell based on the way they fought. For defense, Katakuru used primarily CoO (or at least, the core of his defense was CoO). For Cracker, the core of his defense was CoA. Yet between the two of them, Katakuri undoubtedly had stronger CoA.

Specialties only relate to the individual, and have nothing to do with others. Zoro is a CoA specialist, which means that of the two, he was stronger in CoA than he is in CoO. For Sanji, he is stronger in CoO than he is in CoA. They would both get smashed in their respective specialties by Luffy, in any New World arc you choose.

It makes no sense for either one of them to have stronger haki than Luffy at any point, given that Luffy has to attack and defend against people far stronger than the two of them would ever fight (as we head into the top tiers for Luffy).

But to illustrate, Doflamingo would have ravaged Zoro, but couldn’t get through Luffy’s CoA. And Zoro is supposed to have stronger CoA? It was fanboy nonsense. There was no point where either one of them had stronger haki than Luffy.

 

[sanjikun]

If they are "close enough" in level (more comparing him to G2/G3/base because Gear 4 is "harmonized" Haki not stronger), yes. I believe Zoro's CoA > Luffy's CoA, and Sanji's CoO > Luffy's CoO. That is until Luffy got FS and advanced CoA.

No. Unequivocally no. This was already proven with the Big Mom pirates. Katakuri is absolutely a CoO specialist. Cracker was absolutely a CoA specialist. You can tell based on the way they fought. For defense, Katakuru used primarily CoO (or at least, the core of his defense was CoO). For Cracker, the core of his defense was CoA. Yet between the two of them, Katakuri undoubtedly had stronger CoA.

Luffy complimented both Katakuri's CoA and Cracker's CoA. Oda never complimented Luffy's Haki. In fact he did the opposite.

Gear 4's "strength" came from harmonizing Haki and DF. It's like Enel. Enel's CoO wasn't great NATURALLY, but when he harmonized with his DF, it became deadly.

Luffy's "leap" over Zoro and Sanji was because of his harmonization to achieve symbiosis of Gear 4, not his Haki.

 

[HA001]

No. Unequivocally no. This was already proven with the Big Mom pirates. Katakuri is absolutely a CoO specialist. Cracker was absolutely a CoA specialist. You can tell based on the way they fought. For defense, Katakuru used primarily CoO (or at least, the core of his defense was CoO). For Cracker, the core of his defense was CoA. Yet between the two of them, Katakuri undoubtedly had stronger CoA.

Specialties only relate to the individual, and have nothing to do with others. Zoro is a CoA specialist, which means that of the two, he was stronger in CoA than he is in CoO. For Sanji, he is stronger in CoO than he is in CoA. They would both get smashed in their respective specialties by Luffy, in any New World arc you choose.

It makes no sense for either one of them to have stronger haki than Luffy at any point, given that Luffy has to attack and defend against people far stronger than the two of them would ever fight (as we head into the top tiers for Luffy).

But to illustrate, Doflamingo would have ravaged Zoro, but couldn’t get through Luffy’s CoA. And Zoro is supposed to have stronger CoA? It was fanboy nonsense. There was no point where either one of them had stronger haki than Luffy.

Zoros coa has shit over luffys post skip. Luffys coa has been broken or stated to be weaker than all his opponents post timeskip bar cesar.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

just means certain individual is better at that specialisation than other branches of haki
tho now thinking about it
I wonder how luffy coc will be better than both his coo and coa considering he mastered those earlier.

 

[Finalbeta]

It means that some people got a natural predisposition for a certain type of haki and/or trained one more and better

 

[RecoomeBoom]

Even though it's stated that Luffy specializes in coc, he has the best haki in all 3 categories so "specialize" hardly means anything when it's all relative.

Logically, Sanji should get FS and Zoro advanced coa but Luffy gets them all.

 

[Seth]

It depends on the strength of plot armor.

 

[Ravagerblade]

Its stupid that Oda said Luffy specializes in CoC when you cant train it to get stronger.

 

[Fn Lucci]

No. Unequivocally no. This was already proven with the Big Mom pirates. Katakuri is absolutely a CoO specialist. Cracker was absolutely a CoA specialist. You can tell based on the way they fought. For defense, Katakuru used primarily CoO (or at least, the core of his defense was CoO). For Cracker, the core of his defense was CoA. Yet between the two of them, Katakuri undoubtedly had stronger CoA.

Specialties only relate to the individual, and have nothing to do with others. Zoro is a CoA specialist, which means that of the two, he was stronger in CoA than he is in CoO. For Sanji, he is stronger in CoO than he is in CoA. They would both get smashed in their respective specialties by Luffy, in any New World arc you choose.

It makes no sense for either one of them to have stronger haki than Luffy at any point, given that Luffy has to attack and defend against people far stronger than the two of them would ever fight (as we head into the top tiers for Luffy).

But to illustrate, Doflamingo would have ravaged Zoro, but couldn’t get through Luffy’s CoA. And Zoro is supposed to have stronger CoA? It was fanboy nonsense. There was no point where either one of them had stronger haki than Luffy.

Your main point checks out but those examples don't. There are a lot of other variables in Haki to account for too, but first and foremost the charlottes aren't anything like the Straw Hats.

What we basically know is:

- Luffy's Haki was recognized repeatedly pre timeskip. That may tie into his prodigious level, which we can say according to Rayleigh going home early. He possibly didn't train his four areas equally (three types of Haki plus his DF) but it may be due to his aptitude and experience that he came out above average across the board.

- Zoro has average CoO. We haven't seen any CoC and we know that his two years were virtually just filled with combat training. So CoA would have to be way ahead for him in a disproportion. Better than Luffy? We don't know. Pretty possible. Didn't look worse than Fujitora from the very little we saw.

- without debate, Sanji's specialty is cooking. So he might have spent half his time training on Haki. His CoA is average, CoO pretty good. Right now Luffy is definitely ahead there, but again it's not his main talent. If his cooking skills were his fighting skills he'd be Roger.

 

[Chrono]

w.

- without debate, Sanji's specialty is cooking. So he might have spent half his time training on Haki. His CoA is average, CoO pretty good. Right now Luffy is definitely ahead there, but again it's not his main talent. If his cooking skills were his fighting skills he'd be Roger.

You do realise that Sanji wasnt training in cooking in the timeskip. He was collecting recipies ( which weve barely seen lol) and to collect those recipes he was constantly fighting. On top of that he was being chased around for 2 years with no one where to stay or sleep.

Sanji has been developing his haki naturally without having someone actually train him in it. He developed it through how rough his living conditions were.

 

[Fn Lucci]

You think he was "collecting recipes." Like he was filling a Pokedex? Recipes are for using and we can assume he does that, whether we see the actual recipe used or not. He's said as much. The guys he had to beat for them are less relevant than the running considering they're still unknown and his attack moveset is completely stagnant.

As for learning Haki on his own, no, no one in the manga says that. He immediately recognizes CoC by name, so it's obvious he's had a bit of instruction.

 

[Chrono]

You think he was "collecting recipes." Like he was filling a Pokedex? Recipes are for using and we can assume he does that, whether we see the actual recipe used or not. He's said as much. The guys he had to beat for them are less relevant than the running considering they're still unknown and his attack moveset is completely stagnant.

As for learning Haki on his own, no, no one in the manga says that. He immediately recognizes CoC by name, so it's obvious he's had a bit of instruction.

Well he wasnt cooking half the time thats for sure. What would he need to learn in cooking. He was already a great cook pre timeskip. The training never referenced him learning cooking. Just stealing the recipies and using them.

And idc if you believe the Newkama Kenpo Masters are irelevant. Theyre clearly relevant for Iva and hes a YC lvl dude.

As far as we knowing he wasnt trained in it. Instruction doesnt really matter.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Of course no. Specialty aren't the same as stronger than the others. That's like saying Zoro's CoA is better than Luffy's and Sanji's while it's not LOL.

 

[Gensui Sazid]

Well i'm talking about when oda said that luffy is CoC specialist, zoro is CoA specialist, and sanji is CoO specialist in SHP crew (i forgot where he said that). If we take captain luffy as an example, does it mean luffy's CoA is weaker than zoro's and his CoO is weaker thab sanji's?
Or maybe even zoro and sanji already could use advanced CoA and CoO respectively compared to luffy who just learned advanced haki recently?

And for CoC, i think it's obvious that luffy's CoC is stronger than zoro's and sanji's (if they have any lol).

It was in a Sbs.
on Topic: Being specialist in one color doesnt meant u are better at it than the others or someone who doesnt specialize in it. for example, we know Ray has 3 haki and during the time Oda answered the Sbs>
Ray's COC>Luffy's(Luffy's speciality)
Ray's COA>Luffy/Zoro/Sanji(Zoro's speciaity)
Ray's COO>Luffy/Zoro/Sanji(Sanji's speciaity)
So, Ray pretty much debunks the premise.

If i have to take a guess: specializing in any color of haki would mean that u are likely to be better at that shade than the other shade(of u). it doesnt account for others. if i major in Architecture it doesnt mean i am better than others(even if their best field isnt archi). it means in most scenerios my archi>my other skills.
but the thing about specializing is that u r likely to have more progress in ur stronger point instead of the other weaker ones(ASSUMING similar effort was given in all of ur points)

i will use Luffy as an example:
Luffy's speciality is his COC. that means his COC will be > COA/COO( this will be true if Luffy went through the similar difficulty of efforts/struggles for each Haki). BUT we know Luffy's COA/COO is better than his COC. bcuz he didnt give the same effort or went through similar struggles for COC. so his specilizing Haki is his weakest haki right now.
Hope i answered the question. Sorry for bad English, new to forum

 

[Fn Lucci]

Well he wasnt cooking half the time thats for sure. What would he need to learn in cooking. He was already a great cook pre timeskip. The training never referenced him learning cooking. Just stealing the recipies and using them.

And idc if you believe the Newkama Kenpo Masters are irelevant. Theyre clearly relevant for Iva and hes a YC lvl dude.

As far as we knowing he wasnt trained in it. Instruction doesnt really matter.

He was definitely trained in it. He wouldn't know the names of the different types of Haki if someone didn't tell him. Ivankov clearly knew about Haki so it's not like he couldn't get help with it on newkama. On the flip side, you try to talk up the underlings of a "YC level dude" so I guess you admit they should be able to help? Not that it has to be more than that since generally YC underlings are shit (Hack, Sheepshead).

I don't know how you don't understand that getting new recipes and incorporating them doesn't take time, but okay then. Show me the time pre timeskip where he immediately outdid the 30 best cooks in the world and I'll agree to disagree.

 

[Chrono]

He was definitely trained in it. He wouldn't know the names of the different types of Haki if someone didn't tell him. Ivankov clearly knew about Haki so it's not like he couldn't get help with it on newkama. On the flip side, you try to talk up the underlings of a "YC level dude" so I guess you admit they should be able to help? Not that it has to be more than that since generally YC underlings are shit (Hack, Sheepshead).

I don't know how you don't understand that getting new recipes and incorporating them doesn't take time, but okay then. Show me the time pre timeskip where he immediately outdid the 30 best cooks in the world and I'll agree to disagree.

Like I said being told about it and being trained in it. Are two different things. Sanji knowing the names for it imply that he was told about. However their is still no evidence to show that Sanji was trained by anyone in it. The lack of training flashbacks show this. Instead all they ever show is Sanji being chased.

And Doffy being a YC lvl, had Vergo underneath him. Whilst Katakuri has Daikfuku and Oven under him. So dont count out the Newkama Kenpo masters, as they were hyped up by Iva and were his surbordinates. The strongest could easily be Veteran lvl.

I dont know how you dont undwrstand thar Sanji is a genius cook. He can create something by just smelling it. All he needed to do was look at the wedding cake manual once to recreate it. He doesnt need time to actually learn recipies or cook something. So he wont be wasting his time with that. Not like the Okama would even let him do it.

 

[Fn Lucci]

He was able to instantly recreate it... Post timeskip ROFL. I guess you agree that the training paid off.

As for vet level, well, you just mentioned three guys Sanji didn't beat. So if Sanji beat them all eventually then not really.

 

[Chrono]

He was able to instantly recreate it... Post timeskip ROFL. I guess you agree that the training paid off.

As for vet level, well, you just mentioned three guys Sanji didn't beat. So if Sanji beat them all eventually then not really.

The ability to instantly recreate wouldnt be learnt through the Okama trails. If anything he learnt it being with Zeff. Again you have yet to shown me Sanji learning cooking in Kamabaka.

Vergo ran away, and Oven/Daifuku are guys he never had the chance to fully fight. They were all clashes.