Rules Berserk General Dicussion

Seth

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢
I've read some shit a few days ago before I returned but I lost the link.

Is that true that Miura's editors have his drafts/story boards and they will continue the publication if Miura's family agrees?


Sad to see him go. He didn't seem to be ill or shit.

Shit happens man.
 
I've read some shit a few days ago before I returned but I lost the link.

Is that true that Miura's editors have his drafts/story boards and they will continue the publication if Miura's family agrees?


Sad to see him go. He didn't seem to be ill or shit.

Shit happens man.
All I’ve seen is Miura’s chief assistant saying he doesn’t know what’s going to happen and isn’t in a position to decide.

Personally I think it’s happened so suddenly that there won’t be enough to continue the series, but that’s just my opinion.
 

Seth

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢
All I’ve seen is Miura’s chief assistant saying he doesn’t know what’s going to happen and isn’t in a position to decide.

Personally I think it’s happened so suddenly that there won’t be enough to continue the series, but that’s just my opinion.
That sucks from a reader perspective. Although it's a fucking tragedy and I feel bad for his family and his fans worldwide. He blessed us with what can be considered top 1 manga in many aspects.

Fucking shit man. I hope he went to a better place.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
This is probably a hard pill for people to swallow, but Guts was never going to defeat Griffith in the end. Such a victory would be way too fanservice-y and dumb, especially with how much more cataclysmicly more powerful than Guts the Godhand are.

Even if Guts would’ve pulled off some Fairy Tail level bullshit about beating God Griffith in a fight, Guts himself would still feel pain in the end, killing or beating Griffith would not change that.

The only way Guts could’ve truly stuck it to Griffith, is by walking away and healing from him. Griffith is a narcissist who fed off of the anger/emotions that Guts felt toward him, only a complete reaction of indifference could’ve made Griffith truly suffer, and that would only come if Guts would’ve found the strength to walk away from Griffith in the end.

I think Miura foreshadowed this right at the beginning of the boat arc, where a very wounded Guts actually laid eyes on reincarnated Griffith, but simply closed his eyes and went to sleep as Griffith set out to face Shiva Ganishka. Guts and Casca were both beginning to heal from the trauma they suffered, going back to fight Griffith in the end, even if they win, would still leave them as nothing more than slaves to the pain that Griffith caused them, which would not complete Guts’ arc of wanting to find his own dream and his own reasons for living.

I never wanted to see Guts kill Griffith, I wanted to see Guts heal, which for me always meant not killing Griffith in the end.
 
This is probably a hard pill for people to swallow, but Guts was never going to defeat Griffith in the end. Such a victory would be way too fanservice-y and dumb, especially with how much more cataclysmicly more powerful than Guts the Godhand are.

Even if Guts would’ve pulled off some Fairy Tail level bullshit about beating God Griffith in a fight, Guts himself would still feel pain in the end, killing or beating Griffith would not change that.

The only way Guts could’ve truly stuck it to Griffith, is by walking away and healing from him. Griffith is a narcissist who fed off of the anger/emotions that Guts felt toward him, only a complete reaction of indifference could’ve made Griffith truly suffer, and that would only come if Guts would’ve found the strength to walk away from Griffith in the end.

I think Miura foreshadowed this right at the beginning of the boat arc, where a very wounded Guts actually laid eyes on reincarnated Griffith, but simply closed his eyes and went to sleep as Griffith set out to face Shiva Ganishka. Guts and Casca were both beginning to heal from the trauma they suffered, going back to fight Griffith in the end, even if they win, would still leave them as nothing more than slaves to the pain that Griffith caused them, which would not complete Guts’ arc of wanting to find his own dream and his own reasons for living.

I never wanted to see Guts kill Griffith, I wanted to see Guts heal, which for me always meant not killing Griffith in the end.
Miura literally said in an interview that the story is about Guts getting revenge on Griffith.

My guess was that Guts and Casca would remove their brands, making Griffith lose his powers since his sacrifice was incomplete, leaving him in his crippled pre-Eclipse state.
 
I don’t care lol. He would’ve subverted expectations for a more meaningful ending instead of a fanservice one. The Skull Knight and Guts’ conversation about an “unhappy ending” already foreshadowed a non-straightforward ending.
The problem here is your assumption that getting revenge on Griffith means Guts and him dueling and Guts somehow defeating him. That would clearly never happen.

But Griffith does need to be defeated. It’s very obvious that Fantasia is not his end goal and that both his overarching intentions and those of the godhand are sinister. On a meta-narrative level, it would make literally no sense for Griffith to not be defeated.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
The problem here is your assumption that getting revenge on Griffith means Guts and him dueling and Guts somehow defeating him. That would clearly never happen.

But Griffith does need to be defeated. It’s very obvious that Fantasia is not his end goal and that both his overarching intentions and those of the godhand are sinister. On a meta-narrative level, it would make literally no sense for Griffith to not be defeated.
What even are Griffith’s overall intentions? To have his own Kingdom? How is that evil? He keeps all of the people inside safe and happy. What about that must be stopped? And since when does Guts care about protecting or saving people anyway?

Guts’ literal only motive to defeat Griffith is revenge for what he did to the Hawk. Making Guts a slave to his own pain, the only way for him to overcome this is by not defeating Griffith, especially when there is literally no other reason for Griffith to be defeated.

Thinking Griffith is objectively evil and must be stopped is exactly the kind of nonsensical binary false dichotomy morality that Miura had spent 30 years satirizing.
 
What even are Griffith’s overall intentions? To have his own Kingdom? How is that evil? He keeps all of the people inside safe and happy. What about that must be stopped? And since when does Guts care about protecting or saving people anyway?
Guts and Danan literally talked about this in Elfhelm. The true goal of the Godhand and the entity in the astral world they obey (strongly implied to be the idea of evil) extends beyond simply the creation of Falconia and is almost definitely not a good thing. Guts literally told her he has no idea what Griffith’s intentions are now, and that his ambition would never stop, even after obtaining a kingdom.

Guts’ literal only motive to defeat Griffith is revenge for what he did to the Hawk.
You seem to be misunderstanding what I’m saying. Guts will find some other motivation for taking out Griffith, whether it be protecting Casca/freeing them from the brand, or even protecting his comrades and the world at large.

Guts overcoming his trauma doesn’t change the fact that the story has literally laid out the godhand as embodiments of evil with sinister intentions for humanity.

You’re projecting the post-violence/pacifist themes from Vagabond and Vinland Saga onto Berserk when literally there’s no precedent for that in the story.

especially when there is literally no other reason for Griffith to be defeated.
But the godhand do. Remember, Griffith is literally just another piece in the godhand/idea of evil’s long term plans.

Thinking Griffith is objectively evil and must be stopped is exactly the kind of nonsensical binary false dichotomy morality that Miura had spent 30 years satirizing.
Miura has literally said that morality and good/evil are not themes he’s interested in tackling in his story. Themes like trauma, existentialism, ambition, destiny, and free will are the thematic cornerstones of Berserk, and I would argue that saying Berserk is a commentary on morality is a misreading.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
Guts overcoming his trauma doesn’t change the fact that the story has literally laid out the godhand as embodiments of evil with a sinister intentions for humanity.
Owngoal inbound:

Miura has literally said that morality and good/evil are not themes he’s interested in tackling in his story.
Concession accepted. There is no such thing as objective evil in Berserk.
 
Owngoal inbound:



Concession accepted. There is no such thing as objective evil in Berserk.
Ok. So then the idea of evil will just destroy the world while Guts and co. tee off and watch from Efhelm? Eventually getting killed themselves?

My issue here is that we never learned the true goal of the godhand/idea of evil, and I think we were about to learn that before Miura passed.

I agree with you that Guts no longer targeting Griffith because of revenge is key, but what I’m saying is that Guts will find a reason other than revenge to stop Griffith/the godhand.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
Ok. So then the idea of evil will just destroy the world while Guts and co. tee off and watch from Efhelm?
Since when does Guts want to destroy the idea of Evil, or even know what it is? On that subject, didn’t Miura make the concept non-canon for the time being?

The idea of evil is a manifestation of humanity’s negative emotions. Is Guts supposed to destroy an abstract metaphorical construct by shoving his sword through it? Is Guts a literal god in the end by destroying the ultimate embodiment of evil? You see what I mean that this shit sounds fan-servicy and Fairy Tail level?

So much for the central theme of Berserk being about the futility of human existence, apparently EOS was is going to literally kill evil. Lmfao
 

Seth

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢
Miura literally said in an interview that the story is about Guts getting revenge on Griffith.

My guess was that Guts and Casca would remove their brands, making Griffith lose his powers since his sacrifice was incomplete, leaving him in his crippled pre-Eclipse state.
Fair but you know that Mangakas say a lot of stuff and sometimes change their methods of writing or even plot itself looking at the way the story shaped up.
 
Since when does Guts want to destroy the idea of Evil, or even know what it is? On that subject, didn’t Miura make the concept non-canon for the time being?
Miura removed the idea of evil, because of spoilers. Schierke’s master Flora literally said the godhand serve a mysterious entity deep in the astral world and that is canon.
The idea of evil is a manifestation of humanity’s negative emotions.
Incorrect. The idea of evil is a manifestation of humanity’s desire for meaning. And it creates meaning though suffering.

Since when does Guts want to destroy the idea of Evil, or even know what it is? On that subject, didn’t Miura make the concept non-canon for the time being?

The idea of evil is a manifestation of humanity’s negative emotions. Is Guts supposed to destroy an abstract metaphorical construct by shoving his sword through it? Is Guts a literal god in the end by destroying the ultimate embodiment of evil? You see what I mean that this shit sounds fan-servicy and Fairy Tail level?
What are you talking about? Why are you assuming that stopping the godhand = defeating someone or something in a fight.

So much for the central theme of Berserk being about the futility of human existence, apparently EOS was is going to literally kill evil. Lmfao
Yikes. This is literally the exact opposite of the main theme lmaoooo
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Fair but you know that Mangakas say a lot of stuff and sometimes change their methods of writing or even plot itself looking at the way the story shaped up.
But like he said that in 2019????
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
Yikes. This is literally the exact opposite of the main theme lmaoooo
The main theme of Berserk is the idea of struggling against the inevitable. It’s about how no matter how much Guts struggles, he ultimately accomplishes nothing in the end but still struggles to defy his fate.

But you tend to miss subtlety when you think Guts is going to kill evil with a sword.
 
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But you tend to miss subtlety when you think Guts is going to kill evil with a sword.
Bro, I literally just said I don’t think think that’s going to happen. And I’ve said that FOUR times. Are you reading my messages lmaooo. Stopping the godhand =/= defeating the godhand in fights.

And to you’re first point, it’s never been confirmed that fate exists in Berserk. Skull Knight thinks there is, Guts thinks there isn’t. This one of the most common misconceptions about the series, to the point where SkullKnight net literally has it listed as one of the biggest misconceptions in their myth busting series.
https://www.skullknight.net/forum/i...ythbusters-answers-to-common-questions.15556/
 
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Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
Bro, I literally just said I don’t think think that’s going to happen. And I’ve said that FOUR times. Are you reading my messages lmaooo. Stopping the godhand =/= defeating the godhand in fights.
The fact that you think Guts even stands a chance against them or the IOE at all though is the point. Wtf is Guts supposed to do to any one of them? He could get blinked 1,000 years into the past by any one of them if they felt like it. Slan sensually ran her finger across his chest, literally just toying with him, and permanently wounded his soul. He is a literal mortal standing up against virtually all-powerful entities who can remove every trace of him from existence if they wanted to. Guts never stood any chance to take any kind of revenge on Griffith whatsoever.

Even taking Griffith's godhood away from him as you said is something well beyond Guts' capabilities or understanding as Griffith's powers were granted to him by causality itself, which nobody in Berserk, not even Void, fully understands.

And to you’re first point, it’s never been confirmed that fate exists in Berserk. Skull Knight thinks there is, Guts think there isn’t. This one of the most common misconceptions about the series, to the point where SkullKnight net literally has it listed as one of the biggest misconceptions in their myth busting series.
https://www.skullknight.net/forum/i...ythbusters-answers-to-common-questions.15556/
Okay but Guts isn't the end-all-be-all on this subject. Neither is SkullKnight.net, wtf.

In fact Guts still knows nowhere near as much as even we the reader know about the reality of Berserk and the forces at play. The only things Guts knows are the cryptic non-statements that Skull Knight has made. He doesn't even know about the existence of the Idea of Evil, which you apparently think Guts even stood the remotest chance of doing something about, even if it's ultimate end-purpose was to obliterate humanity or whatever.

Causality most definitely exists within Berserk, it is the source of the Godhand's power. Whether or not causality exists as something that can be defied by humans is something else entirely. Guts has still yet to demonstrate that he can change his own fate, he is has only shown that he can struggle against his fate which is different from changing it.
 
The fact that you think Guts even stands a chance against them or the IOE at all though is the point. Wtf is Guts supposed to do to any one of them? He could get blinked 1,000 years into the past by any one of them if they felt like it. Slan sensually ran her finger across his chest, literally just toying with him, and permanently wounded his soul. He is a literal mortal standing up against virtually all-powerful entities who can remove every trace of him from existence if they wanted to. Guts never stood any chance to take any kind of revenge on Griffith whatsoever.

Even taking Griffith's godhood away from him as you said is something well beyond Guts' capabilities or understanding as Griffith's powers were granted to him by causality itself, which nobody in Berserk, not even Void, fully understands.



Okay but Guts isn't the end-all-be-all on this subject. Neither is SkullKnight.net, wtf.

In fact Guts still knows nowhere near as much as even we the reader know about the reality of Berserk and the forces at play. The only things Guts knows are the cryptic non-statements that Skull Knight has made. He doesn't even know about the existence of the Idea of Evil, which you apparently think Guts even stood the remotest chance of doing something about, even if it's ultimate end-purpose was to obliterate humanity or whatever.

Causality most definitely exists within Berserk, it is the source of the Godhand's power. Whether or not causality exists as something that can be defied by humans is something else entirely. Guts has still yet to demonstrate that he can change his own fate, he is has only shown that he can struggle against his fate which is different from changing it.
Dude, I’ve literally said FIVE times now that defeating the godhand doesn’t mean beating them in a fight. Guts and Casca finding some way to remove their brands might literally be enough. And if Miura had gotten time to explain them fully, there might have been any number of methods.

Like, am I not being clear????
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Causality most definitely exists within Berserk, it is the source of the Godhand's power.
this is literally never stated anywhere in the story

Guts has still yet to demonstrate that he can change his own fate, he is has only shown that he can struggle against his fate which is different from changing it.
Now this I agree with. But Guts not demonstrating it doesn’t mean he can’t. In fact, the way it’s presented seems to be intentionally ambiguous which is what both I and SkullKnight.NET (which Miura used to get feedback for years) are saying.
 
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B

Ballel

Ok, I can't read all of your posts as I don't want to spoil myself.
But I'm at chapter 43 now and more amd more I see the parallels between Guts and Zoro.
 
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