Speculations Can we really assume that Zoro will fight Venus because of the Shodai?
- Thread starter Shiroyru
- Start date
I'm just calling it like it is, easy to sit here after the fact and act all high and mighty🤷. ZKK had some solid buildup, it took someone who can take a step back from the cartoon character Zoro and realize who is writing this manga to overcome all that "evidence" the community was bringing up. Heck even neutral parties started believing Zoro had no business with King once he was on the roof, let alone Zoro fans.
I said case in point cause you get too defensive over Zoro, I just don't think you got that dawg in you to take a step back from the character, definitely not at that time. I noticed some people have been able to do that post Wano as it was a learning experience for them, some have taken it way too far though like hellblazer.
I said case in point cause you get too defensive over Zoro, I just don't think you got that dawg in you to take a step back from the character, definitely not at that time. I noticed some people have been able to do that post Wano as it was a learning experience for them, some have taken it way too far though like hellblazer.
Dude, I said in my circles people weren't obsessing over ZKK, not that I didn't know ZKK was a thing. As I mentioned, back then I was modding on Manga Helpers, it's not like I wasn't on the internet, and I never budged from Zoro vs King from before the raid up to the actual fight.
I was pleased with what I got. I'm not being high and mighty for saying the matchup was telegraphed. What wasn't telegraphed was Oda going of his way to go both for the fight and the scar and all that additional fanservice.
I did get a little defensive, but it wasn't over Zoro, I just thought the comment was a little gratuitous.
What did these "sane fans" thing Luffy would do in the meanwhile? Deal with Big Mom? 
It's almost as if the Gorosei are Imu's strongest underlings, unlike Big Mom was for Kaido. It's almost like the strongest among them usually is Zoro's prey.
I was pleased with what I got. I'm not being high and mighty for saying the matchup was telegraphed. What wasn't telegraphed was Oda going of his way to go both for the fight and the scar and all that additional fanservice.
I did get a little defensive, but it wasn't over Zoro, I just thought the comment was a little gratuitous.
Things were wild back then. Led by @Cinera , they were really going at anybody who didnt believe the theory. Even sane Zoro fans like Garp or Kirinigiri created long posts/thread supporting ZKK. Some doubted I wasnt a true Zoro fan because I used to call ZKK bs
It's almost as if the Gorosei are Imu's strongest underlings, unlike Big Mom was for Kaido. It's almost like the strongest among them usually is Zoro's prey.
Nah you're missing the mark here, the way Oda writes things, he can/will give the Gorosei to Zoro when Luffy has moved on to bigger better things.
At the time Big Mom held the same rank as Kaidou, and that is something Zoro never gets to take on (to a conclusion). If Luffy is taking on Imu or some other party Zoro vs Gandhi is completely on the table. The very fact that there are 5 of these dudes at the same time means they are susceptible to be taken out by non captains. There is also the CP9 route, where the Gorosei have gaps in power.
King is a legit "Captain/Luffy" worthy main boss, he is the Katakuri of the Beast Pirates, the only thing is Zoro was only allowed to take on someone like that once Luffy moved on to someone like Kaidou.
At the time Big Mom held the same rank as Kaidou, and that is something Zoro never gets to take on (to a conclusion). If Luffy is taking on Imu or some other party Zoro vs Gandhi is completely on the table. The very fact that there are 5 of these dudes at the same time means they are susceptible to be taken out by non captains. There is also the CP9 route, where the Gorosei have gaps in power.
King is a legit "Captain/Luffy" worthy main boss, he is the Katakuri of the Beast Pirates, the only thing is Zoro was only allowed to take on someone like that once Luffy moved on to someone like Kaidou.
What did these "sane fans" thing Luffy would do in the meanwhile? Deal with Big Mom?
I could write a long essay explaining why Zoro will fight Kaido, but I already did that (twice):
I could talk about Yasuie foreshadowing that Zoro will be the one to behead Kaido:
I could talk about Kaido's desire to die at the hands of a "monster samurai" of the likes of Kozuki Oden:
I could talk about all the times Zoro has expressed his desire to fight Kaido:
I could talk about how the 5 Supernova on the Rooftop mirrors Luffy and Law vs Doflamingo and Trebol:
I could talk about Chapter 1001: "The Decisive Battle of Monsters on Onigashima" or Chapter 1002: "The New Generation vs the Yonkou". I could talk at length about the narrative setup for the New Generation surpassing the old and Oden's prophecy:
I could talk about how Chapter 1002 had a scene that was a perfect mirror of Ryuma's own Dragon Slaying feat:
I could link others explanation of the case of Zoro slaying Kaido from the latest chapter:
I could mention that Kaido was scared by Zoro's attack this chapter:
I could point out that Kaido felt Oden's presence from Zoro's katana:
I could talk about how Big Mom chastised Kaido for greatly underestimating Zoro:
I could talk about inherited will:
On how it relates to swords and Enma in particular.
On the inherited will of Enma to slay Kaido and open Wano's borders:
I could say a lot of things. Others have said a lot of things.
Man, I'm frustrated. Several honest people genuinely believe that Zoro's main fight this arc is not Kaido. Most of the doubters seem to believe it's King. They apparently expect one of:
The reasons I've seen for the fight are:
I don't really care about the disingenuous members of the forum who care more about fandom wars and wanking/shitting on a particular character. I'm just honestly baffled that so many people — posters that have been very reasonable and sensible otherwise — reading the same manga as me genuinely believe that Zoro's main fight this arc is not Kaido.
Help me understand.
- [Future Events] Zoro will NOT fight Kaido!
- [Future Events] Zoro Will be the MVP (or Runner Up) in the Kaido Fight
I could talk about Yasuie foreshadowing that Zoro will be the one to behead Kaido:
I could talk about Kaido's desire to die at the hands of a "monster samurai" of the likes of Kozuki Oden:
I could talk about all the times Zoro has expressed his desire to fight Kaido:
I could talk about how the 5 Supernova on the Rooftop mirrors Luffy and Law vs Doflamingo and Trebol:
I could talk about Chapter 1001: "The Decisive Battle of Monsters on Onigashima" or Chapter 1002: "The New Generation vs the Yonkou". I could talk at length about the narrative setup for the New Generation surpassing the old and Oden's prophecy:
I could talk about how Chapter 1002 had a scene that was a perfect mirror of Ryuma's own Dragon Slaying feat:
I could link others explanation of the case of Zoro slaying Kaido from the latest chapter:
I could mention that Kaido was scared by Zoro's attack this chapter:
I could point out that Kaido felt Oden's presence from Zoro's katana:
I could talk about how Big Mom chastised Kaido for greatly underestimating Zoro:
I could talk about inherited will:
On how it relates to swords and Enma in particular.
On the inherited will of Enma to slay Kaido and open Wano's borders:
I could say a lot of things. Others have said a lot of things.
Man, I'm frustrated. Several honest people genuinely believe that Zoro's main fight this arc is not Kaido. Most of the doubters seem to believe it's King. They apparently expect one of:
- Zoro to be defeated on the Rooftop and then fight King afterwards.
- King to take the initiative to confront Zoro by himself.
The reasons I've seen for the fight are:
- King is Kaido's strongest subordinate and Zoro is Luffy's strongest subordinate.
- King - Queen and Zoro - Sanji have very nice parallels
- Zoro shouldn't jump to fighting top tiers without going through Commanders
- King is a swordsman
- King uses fire abilities
- Zoro has been foreshadowed to learn how to cut fire
I don't really care about the disingenuous members of the forum who care more about fandom wars and wanking/shitting on a particular character. I'm just honestly baffled that so many people — posters that have been very reasonable and sensible otherwise — reading the same manga as me genuinely believe that Zoro's main fight this arc is not Kaido.
Help me understand.
Introduction
I don't have the time to write another full length essay right now (and I would address this at depth in one of my forthcoming essays), so I'm going to be as brief as possible. Considers this a rough sketch of my beliefs, and my attempt at getting the pulse of the community.
I've covered a lot of the supporting arguments in some of my many Zoro vs Kaido essays, so I'll just link them when appropriate.
Why Zoro?
The idea that Luffy would defeat Kaido in a final 1 vs 1 confrontation seems implausible given Zoro's narrative and character arc in Wanokuni. Considering what Zoro has been setup to do, I do not see Zoro being an afterthought in Kaido's defeat.
Against Luffy Defeating Kaido
If Luffy defeats Kaido in a 1 vs 1, then even if Zoro beheads a defeated Kaido, the following cannot be accomplished:
Merely reopening the scar Oden left behind or even giving Kaido a new scar would not accomplish any of the below:
The claim that Luffy defeats Kaido in a 1 vs 1 is a claim that Zoro's character arc in Wano would be denied a suitable payoff.
Aside from that though, Luffy landing the final blow when Zoro and himself face an antagonist by themselves has never happened to the best of my knowledge.
Luffy has landed the final blow in group fights (Pacifista, Oars, etc.), but in fights with him and Zoro, landing the final blow has traditionally fallen to Zoro. I expect that Kaido would be essentially defeated by Luffy and Zoro alone (they have already dealt > 90% of the damage he has received so far), and I expect that to remain true. Mama may also be defeated given CP 0's words, and the other Supernova can handle her.
Expectations for the Final Attack
As for the final attack that defeats Kaido, I think Oda has already shown it to us.
In Chapter 1002, Zoro nearly replicated Ryuma's legend on the Rooftop using a posture and stance that directly mirrored Ryuma's own:
The technique — Hiryuu Kaen — was the same technique that Zoro used to defeat Ryuma:
The attack missed, but perhaps it was simply too early. In order to replicate Ryuma's legend, Zoro would need to perform the feat in front of several witnesses (perhaps he gets another chance when the battle moves to the vicinity of the Flower Capital).
Predictions
The following events would make me update towards Zoro defeating Kaido (roughly in ascending order of "weight"):
The following events would make me update away from Zoro defeating Kaido (roughly in ascending order of "weight"):
Poll
You can NOT change your votes.
Conclusions
If Zoro does not get to fell Kaido with Hiryuu Kaen, then I can see it being a combination attack between Zoro and Luffy. I'm pretty sceptical that Luffy gets to defeat Kaido at the end of a solo battle (I do not expect Zoro to defeat Kaido in a solo battle either).
I realise that I'm doubting that the protagonist of the story would get to surpass and overcome their first Yonkou opponent, and I'm fine with that. There are three other Yonkou that are going to fall apart from Kaido. Luffy does not need to surpass and overcome Kaido at his strongest. Landing the final blow on Kaido is necessary for Zoro to fulfill the Second Ryuma plotline and surpass Oden.
Zoro needs to defeat Kaido more than Luffy does. After Wano, there would never again be another opportunity for him to forge a legend as the Second Coming of Ryuma. Perhaps you think this narrative has no payoff, after all, Zoro failed to round up the samurai and lead them into battle. Perhaps Zoro's character just isn't important enough for Zoro to get his moment of recognition as the Second Ryuma. That's a sensible belief to have, but it's currently a belief I have low credence in.
I don't have the time to write another full length essay right now (and I would address this at depth in one of my forthcoming essays), so I'm going to be as brief as possible. Considers this a rough sketch of my beliefs, and my attempt at getting the pulse of the community.
I've covered a lot of the supporting arguments in some of my many Zoro vs Kaido essays, so I'll just link them when appropriate.
Why Zoro?
The idea that Luffy would defeat Kaido in a final 1 vs 1 confrontation seems implausible given Zoro's narrative and character arc in Wanokuni. Considering what Zoro has been setup to do, I do not see Zoro being an afterthought in Kaido's defeat.
- Zoro's entire character arc in Onigashima was a tale of his desire to confront Kaido in battle
- This culminated in an earth-shattering declaration that he shall cut down Kaido
- Kaido is Zoro's opponent in the Wano Arc
- For those of you who doubt that Kaido is Zoro's opponent this arc, I've written five essays on the topic to help convince you:
- Associated essay
- Zoro inherited Oden's sword Enma and his unfulfilled will to slay Kaido and open Wano's borders
- He is the "monster samurai" bearing Oden's mantle
- Associated essay
- Zoro is going to surpass Oden by accomplishing the tasks he could not:
- Forging Enma Black
- Slaying Kaido
- Associated essay
- Kaido wants to die at the hands of the Monster Samurai bearing Oden's will.
- Zoro is that samurai.
- Associated essay (by @Garp the Fist)
- Associated essay
- Zoro is going to replicate Ryuma's legend of Slaying a Dragon over the Flower Capital, and leave Wano recognised as the Second Ryuma.
- Ryuma is the "God of the Blade" and a national treasure of Wano
-
- Associated Essay
- Ryuma is the "God of the Blade" and a national treasure of Wano
Against Luffy Defeating Kaido
If Luffy defeats Kaido in a 1 vs 1, then even if Zoro beheads a defeated Kaido, the following cannot be accomplished:
- Kaido's desire to die at the hands of a monster samurai in battle
- Zoro would have cowardly killed him after he had already been defeated
- Zoro surpassing Oden
- Slaying an already defeated enemy is not surpassing anyone
- Replicating Ryuma's legend
- Slaying an already defeated enemy is no legend
Merely reopening the scar Oden left behind or even giving Kaido a new scar would not accomplish any of the below:
- Kaido's desire to die at the hands of a monster samurai in battle
- Zoro would have failed at killing him
- Zoro surpassing Oden
- Reopening Oden's scar is a feat inferior to Oden's
- A new scar is merely replicating Oden's feat, in no way does Zoro surpass Oden through it
- Replicating Ryuma's legend
- Failing to kill Kaido does not replicate Ryuma's legend
The claim that Luffy defeats Kaido in a 1 vs 1 is a claim that Zoro's character arc in Wano would be denied a suitable payoff.
Aside from that though, Luffy landing the final blow when Zoro and himself face an antagonist by themselves has never happened to the best of my knowledge.
- Captain Morgan
- Zoro landed the final blow that defeated him
- Punk Hazard Dragon
- Zoro beheaded it with a Shi Shishi Sonson
Luffy has landed the final blow in group fights (Pacifista, Oars, etc.), but in fights with him and Zoro, landing the final blow has traditionally fallen to Zoro. I expect that Kaido would be essentially defeated by Luffy and Zoro alone (they have already dealt > 90% of the damage he has received so far), and I expect that to remain true. Mama may also be defeated given CP 0's words, and the other Supernova can handle her.
Expectations for the Final Attack
As for the final attack that defeats Kaido, I think Oda has already shown it to us.
In Chapter 1002, Zoro nearly replicated Ryuma's legend on the Rooftop using a posture and stance that directly mirrored Ryuma's own:
The technique — Hiryuu Kaen — was the same technique that Zoro used to defeat Ryuma:
The attack missed, but perhaps it was simply too early. In order to replicate Ryuma's legend, Zoro would need to perform the feat in front of several witnesses (perhaps he gets another chance when the battle moves to the vicinity of the Flower Capital).
Predictions
The following events would make me update towards Zoro defeating Kaido (roughly in ascending order of "weight"):
- Zoro declaring to Kaido that he shall cut down/kill/slay/defeat him
- Perhaps this happens when Zoro gets his eponymous chapter
- Kaido acknowledging that Zoro is currently a samurai on par with Oden
- Kaido acknowledging that Zoro is currently a samurai that exceeds Oden
- Kaido expressing the desire to die at Zoro's hands
- Kaido acknowledging that Zoro is currently capable of killing/defeating him
- E.g. "if it's him, he could do it"
The following events would make me update away from Zoro defeating Kaido (roughly in ascending order of "weight"):
- Zoro declaring that Luffy will become the Pirate King
- Zoro leaving the Kaido battle
- For any reason at all
- Luffy declaring that he wants to overcome and surpass Kaido now
- Not in the future, not eventually, something along the lines of his declaration of intent regarding Katakuri.
- E.g. "I want to overcome him, the Emperor known as Kaido, I want to beat him!"
- Zoro declaring that Luffy will surpass/defeat Kaido
- Zoro entrusting Luffy with defeating Kaido
Poll
You can NOT change your votes.
Conclusions
If Zoro does not get to fell Kaido with Hiryuu Kaen, then I can see it being a combination attack between Zoro and Luffy. I'm pretty sceptical that Luffy gets to defeat Kaido at the end of a solo battle (I do not expect Zoro to defeat Kaido in a solo battle either).
I realise that I'm doubting that the protagonist of the story would get to surpass and overcome their first Yonkou opponent, and I'm fine with that. There are three other Yonkou that are going to fall apart from Kaido. Luffy does not need to surpass and overcome Kaido at his strongest. Landing the final blow on Kaido is necessary for Zoro to fulfill the Second Ryuma plotline and surpass Oden.
Zoro needs to defeat Kaido more than Luffy does. After Wano, there would never again be another opportunity for him to forge a legend as the Second Coming of Ryuma. Perhaps you think this narrative has no payoff, after all, Zoro failed to round up the samurai and lead them into battle. Perhaps Zoro's character just isn't important enough for Zoro to get his moment of recognition as the Second Ryuma. That's a sensible belief to have, but it's currently a belief I have low credence in.
~Snip~
Introduction
I don't have the time to write another full length essay right now (and I would address this at depth in one of my forthcoming essays), so I'm going to be as brief as possible. Considers this a rough sketch of my beliefs, and my attempt at getting the pulse of the community.
I've covered a lot of the supporting arguments in some of my many Zoro vs Kaido essays, so I'll just link them when appropriate.
Why Zoro?
The idea that Luffy would defeat Kaido in a final 1 vs 1 confrontation seems implausible given Zoro's narrative and character arc in Wanokuni. Considering what Zoro has been setup to do, I do not see Zoro being an afterthought in Kaido's defeat.
Against Luffy Defeating Kaido
If Luffy defeats Kaido in a 1 vs 1, then even if Zoro beheads a defeated Kaido, the following cannot be accomplished:
Merely reopening the scar Oden left behind or even giving Kaido a new scar would not accomplish any of the below:
The claim that Luffy defeats Kaido in a 1 vs 1 is a claim that Zoro's character arc in Wano would be denied a suitable payoff.
Aside from that though, Luffy landing the final blow when Zoro and himself face an antagonist by themselves has never happened to the best of my knowledge.
Luffy has landed the final blow in group fights (Pacifista, Oars, etc.), but in fights with him and Zoro, landing the final blow has traditionally fallen to Zoro. I expect that Kaido would be essentially defeated by Luffy and Zoro alone (they have already dealt > 90% of the damage he has received so far), and I expect that to remain true. Mama may also be defeated given CP 0's words, and the other Supernova can handle her.
Expectations for the Final Attack
As for the final attack that defeats Kaido, I think Oda has already shown it to us.
In Chapter 1002, Zoro nearly replicated Ryuma's legend on the Rooftop using a posture and stance that directly mirrored Ryuma's own:
The technique — Hiryuu Kaen — was the same technique that Zoro used to defeat Ryuma:
The attack missed, but perhaps it was simply too early. In order to replicate Ryuma's legend, Zoro would need to perform the feat in front of several witnesses (perhaps he gets another chance when the battle moves to the vicinity of the Flower Capital).
Predictions
The following events would make me update towards Zoro defeating Kaido (roughly in ascending order of "weight"):
The following events would make me update away from Zoro defeating Kaido (roughly in ascending order of "weight"):
Poll
You can NOT change your votes.
Conclusions
If Zoro does not get to fell Kaido with Hiryuu Kaen, then I can see it being a combination attack between Zoro and Luffy. I'm pretty sceptical that Luffy gets to defeat Kaido at the end of a solo battle (I do not expect Zoro to defeat Kaido in a solo battle either).
I realise that I'm doubting that the protagonist of the story would get to surpass and overcome their first Yonkou opponent, and I'm fine with that. There are three other Yonkou that are going to fall apart from Kaido. Luffy does not need to surpass and overcome Kaido at his strongest. Landing the final blow on Kaido is necessary for Zoro to fulfill the Second Ryuma plotline and surpass Oden.
Zoro needs to defeat Kaido more than Luffy does. After Wano, there would never again be another opportunity for him to forge a legend as the Second Coming of Ryuma. Perhaps you think this narrative has no payoff, after all, Zoro failed to round up the samurai and lead them into battle. Perhaps Zoro's character just isn't important enough for Zoro to get his moment of recognition as the Second Ryuma. That's a sensible belief to have, but it's currently a belief I have low credence in.
I don't have the time to write another full length essay right now (and I would address this at depth in one of my forthcoming essays), so I'm going to be as brief as possible. Considers this a rough sketch of my beliefs, and my attempt at getting the pulse of the community.
I've covered a lot of the supporting arguments in some of my many Zoro vs Kaido essays, so I'll just link them when appropriate.
Why Zoro?
The idea that Luffy would defeat Kaido in a final 1 vs 1 confrontation seems implausible given Zoro's narrative and character arc in Wanokuni. Considering what Zoro has been setup to do, I do not see Zoro being an afterthought in Kaido's defeat.
- Zoro's entire character arc in Onigashima was a tale of his desire to confront Kaido in battle
- This culminated in an earth-shattering declaration that he shall cut down Kaido
- Kaido is Zoro's opponent in the Wano Arc
- For those of you who doubt that Kaido is Zoro's opponent this arc, I've written five essays on the topic to help convince you:
- Associated essay
- Zoro inherited Oden's sword Enma and his unfulfilled will to slay Kaido and open Wano's borders
- He is the "monster samurai" bearing Oden's mantle
- Associated essay
- Zoro is going to surpass Oden by accomplishing the tasks he could not:
- Forging Enma Black
- Slaying Kaido
- Associated essay
- Kaido wants to die at the hands of the Monster Samurai bearing Oden's will.
- Zoro is that samurai.
- Associated essay (by @Garp the Fist)
- Associated essay
- Zoro is going to replicate Ryuma's legend of Slaying a Dragon over the Flower Capital, and leave Wano recognised as the Second Ryuma.
- Ryuma is the "God of the Blade" and a national treasure of Wano
-
- Associated Essay
- Ryuma is the "God of the Blade" and a national treasure of Wano
Against Luffy Defeating Kaido
If Luffy defeats Kaido in a 1 vs 1, then even if Zoro beheads a defeated Kaido, the following cannot be accomplished:
- Kaido's desire to die at the hands of a monster samurai in battle
- Zoro would have cowardly killed him after he had already been defeated
- Zoro surpassing Oden
- Slaying an already defeated enemy is not surpassing anyone
- Replicating Ryuma's legend
- Slaying an already defeated enemy is no legend
Merely reopening the scar Oden left behind or even giving Kaido a new scar would not accomplish any of the below:
- Kaido's desire to die at the hands of a monster samurai in battle
- Zoro would have failed at killing him
- Zoro surpassing Oden
- Reopening Oden's scar is a feat inferior to Oden's
- A new scar is merely replicating Oden's feat, in no way does Zoro surpass Oden through it
- Replicating Ryuma's legend
- Failing to kill Kaido does not replicate Ryuma's legend
The claim that Luffy defeats Kaido in a 1 vs 1 is a claim that Zoro's character arc in Wano would be denied a suitable payoff.
Aside from that though, Luffy landing the final blow when Zoro and himself face an antagonist by themselves has never happened to the best of my knowledge.
- Captain Morgan
- Zoro landed the final blow that defeated him
- Punk Hazard Dragon
- Zoro beheaded it with a Shi Shishi Sonson
Luffy has landed the final blow in group fights (Pacifista, Oars, etc.), but in fights with him and Zoro, landing the final blow has traditionally fallen to Zoro. I expect that Kaido would be essentially defeated by Luffy and Zoro alone (they have already dealt > 90% of the damage he has received so far), and I expect that to remain true. Mama may also be defeated given CP 0's words, and the other Supernova can handle her.
Expectations for the Final Attack
As for the final attack that defeats Kaido, I think Oda has already shown it to us.
In Chapter 1002, Zoro nearly replicated Ryuma's legend on the Rooftop using a posture and stance that directly mirrored Ryuma's own:
The technique — Hiryuu Kaen — was the same technique that Zoro used to defeat Ryuma:
The attack missed, but perhaps it was simply too early. In order to replicate Ryuma's legend, Zoro would need to perform the feat in front of several witnesses (perhaps he gets another chance when the battle moves to the vicinity of the Flower Capital).
Predictions
The following events would make me update towards Zoro defeating Kaido (roughly in ascending order of "weight"):
- Zoro declaring to Kaido that he shall cut down/kill/slay/defeat him
- Perhaps this happens when Zoro gets his eponymous chapter
- Kaido acknowledging that Zoro is currently a samurai on par with Oden
- Kaido acknowledging that Zoro is currently a samurai that exceeds Oden
- Kaido expressing the desire to die at Zoro's hands
- Kaido acknowledging that Zoro is currently capable of killing/defeating him
- E.g. "if it's him, he could do it"
The following events would make me update away from Zoro defeating Kaido (roughly in ascending order of "weight"):
- Zoro declaring that Luffy will become the Pirate King
- Zoro leaving the Kaido battle
- For any reason at all
- Luffy declaring that he wants to overcome and surpass Kaido now
- Not in the future, not eventually, something along the lines of his declaration of intent regarding Katakuri.
- E.g. "I want to overcome him, the Emperor known as Kaido, I want to beat him!"
- Zoro declaring that Luffy will surpass/defeat Kaido
- Zoro entrusting Luffy with defeating Kaido
Poll
You can NOT change your votes.
Conclusions
If Zoro does not get to fell Kaido with Hiryuu Kaen, then I can see it being a combination attack between Zoro and Luffy. I'm pretty sceptical that Luffy gets to defeat Kaido at the end of a solo battle (I do not expect Zoro to defeat Kaido in a solo battle either).
I realise that I'm doubting that the protagonist of the story would get to surpass and overcome their first Yonkou opponent, and I'm fine with that. There are three other Yonkou that are going to fall apart from Kaido. Luffy does not need to surpass and overcome Kaido at his strongest. Landing the final blow on Kaido is necessary for Zoro to fulfill the Second Ryuma plotline and surpass Oden.
Zoro needs to defeat Kaido more than Luffy does. After Wano, there would never again be another opportunity for him to forge a legend as the Second Coming of Ryuma. Perhaps you think this narrative has no payoff, after all, Zoro failed to round up the samurai and lead them into battle. Perhaps Zoro's character just isn't important enough for Zoro to get his moment of recognition as the Second Ryuma. That's a sensible belief to have, but it's currently a belief I have low credence in.
~Snip~
You misunderstand the Gorosei's role.
They aren't just puppets. Sure, their main focus has been to serve Imu but they have individual task to take care of which isn't dictated by Imu. Like what Saturn did to Kuma/Bonney. Im assuming similar case will be true for the other gorosei. Imu only directs them when it is something related to Void Century or Joyboy stuff
The more Zoro is kept away from any Wano connection, the better it is for his character.
I hope Venus doesn't make any connection of Zoro to wano because then zoro as a character is dead to me.
They aren't just puppets. Sure, their main focus has been to serve Imu but they have individual task to take care of which isn't dictated by Imu. Like what Saturn did to Kuma/Bonney. Im assuming similar case will be true for the other gorosei. Imu only directs them when it is something related to Void Century or Joyboy stuff
The more Zoro is kept away from any Wano connection, the better it is for his character.
I hope Venus doesn't make any connection of Zoro to wano because then zoro as a character is dead to me.
F
ZKK was only about Zori dealing with the final blow and decaptivating Kaidou. That's all , nobody wanted MC shine nor we downplayed Zori vs King.
Zori vs King was always welcomed , it was sanji fans who pushed for sanji vs King Sidelining zori fans.
I can't remember any zori fan against the idea of Zori vs King.
Zori vs King was always welcomed , it was sanji fans who pushed for sanji vs King Sidelining zori fans.
I can't remember any zori fan against the idea of Zori vs King.
Luffy is going to take on Warcury and then move on to Imu. All the elders are going down before Luffy even takes on Imu. So the idea that Luffy fights Imu and Zoro fights Venus during the same time frame is absurd.
And we know there is no way Zoro is defeating someone of the same rank as Luffy's opponent. When Luffy takes on Warcury his peers like Law/Kidd, and others like Sabo/Dragon (D family) will be the ones to take on the remaining Gorosei. Only after this Luffy will fight Imu.
To solidify my point even more, Zoro hasn't defeated any notable/plot-relevant character till now in the series. Luffy has defeated Warlords and Yonko. He will defeat Admiral and Gorosei in the future. Do u honestly believe Zoro has a remote chance of defeating venus when we have a clear pattern of the opposite?
What series are you reading to consider King as a worthy main boss? King is actually fodder, plot relevance and power wise.
Had Doffy been included in Wano like oda had originally planned, he would have been more worthy opponent for Zoro than a fodder like King.
And who said the strongest gorosei is Venus?
It's clear from portrayal and feats that the Strongest is Warcury. And if it hasn't been obvious enough till now, Luffy is the one who is going to defeat Warcury. Zoro isn't going to take on someone who has the same rank as Luffy's opponent.
And we know there is no way Zoro is defeating someone of the same rank as Luffy's opponent. When Luffy takes on Warcury his peers like Law/Kidd, and others like Sabo/Dragon (D family) will be the ones to take on the remaining Gorosei. Only after this Luffy will fight Imu.
To solidify my point even more, Zoro hasn't defeated any notable/plot-relevant character till now in the series. Luffy has defeated Warlords and Yonko. He will defeat Admiral and Gorosei in the future. Do u honestly believe Zoro has a remote chance of defeating venus when we have a clear pattern of the opposite?
What series are you reading to consider King as a worthy main boss? King is actually fodder, plot relevance and power wise.
Had Doffy been included in Wano like oda had originally planned, he would have been more worthy opponent for Zoro than a fodder like King.
And who said the strongest gorosei is Venus?
It's clear from portrayal and feats that the Strongest is Warcury. And if it hasn't been obvious enough till now, Luffy is the one who is going to defeat Warcury. Zoro isn't going to take on someone who has the same rank as Luffy's opponent.
Luffy is going to take on Warcury and then move on to Imu. All the elders are going down before Luffy even takes on Imu. So the idea that Luffy fights Imu and Zoro fights Venus during the same time frame is absurd.
And we know there is no way Zoro is defeating someone of the same rank as Luffy's opponent. When Luffy takes on Warcury his peers like Law/Kidd, and others like Sabo/Dragon (D family) will be the ones to take on the remaining Gorosei. Only after this Luffy will fight Imu.
To solidify my point even more, Zoro hasn't defeated any notable/plot-relevant character till now in the series. Luffy has defeated Warlords and Yonko. He will defeat Admiral and Gorosei in the future. Do u honestly believe Zoro has a remote chance of defeating venus when we have a clear pattern of the opposite?
What series are you reading to consider King as a worthy main boss? King is actually fodder, plot relevance and power wise.
Had Doffy been included in Wano like oda had originally planned, he would have been more worthy opponent for Zoro than a fodder like King.
And who said the strongest gorosei is Venus?
It's clear from portrayal and feats that the Strongest is Warcury. And if it hasn't been obvious enough till now, Luffy is the one who is going to defeat Warcury. Zoro isn't going to take on someone who has the same rank as Luffy's opponent.
And we know there is no way Zoro is defeating someone of the same rank as Luffy's opponent. When Luffy takes on Warcury his peers like Law/Kidd, and others like Sabo/Dragon (D family) will be the ones to take on the remaining Gorosei. Only after this Luffy will fight Imu.
To solidify my point even more, Zoro hasn't defeated any notable/plot-relevant character till now in the series. Luffy has defeated Warlords and Yonko. He will defeat Admiral and Gorosei in the future. Do u honestly believe Zoro has a remote chance of defeating venus when we have a clear pattern of the opposite?
What series are you reading to consider King as a worthy main boss? King is actually fodder, plot relevance and power wise.
Had Doffy been included in Wano like oda had originally planned, he would have been more worthy opponent for Zoro than a fodder like King.
And who said the strongest gorosei is Venus?
It's clear from portrayal and feats that the Strongest is Warcury. And if it hasn't been obvious enough till now, Luffy is the one who is going to defeat Warcury. Zoro isn't going to take on someone who has the same rank as Luffy's opponent.
Also Katakuri was a main boss fight, King is just as worthy, he was fought when there was a bigger fish to fry for Luffy that's all.
4 other people can get an Elder each but Venus is getting clapped by Zoro.
Wano connection is undeniable, for both of them.
No other character will have a bigger connection to Venus than Zoro.
Bonney might indeed be the one who beats Saturn in the end.
Seems like Wano broke you a little bit too much...
Wano connection is undeniable, for both of them.
No other character will have a bigger connection to Venus than Zoro.
Bonney might indeed be the one who beats Saturn in the end.
Seems like Wano broke you a little bit too much...
You gotta joking.
No way you are making equivalency between Cp9 and Gorosei. They are on completely different level in terms of relevancy.
Also Luffy's opponent can usually neg-diff zoro's opponent. You must be delusional if you think Warcury can neg-diff Venus
King ain't main boss worthy. If he was, he would have fought any of Luffy/Law/Kidd. Instead he fought against a bum like Zoro
It actually opened my eyes towards the reality of this dogshit series.
No way you are making equivalency between Cp9 and Gorosei. They are on completely different level in terms of relevancy.
Also Luffy's opponent can usually neg-diff zoro's opponent. You must be delusional if you think Warcury can neg-diff Venus
King ain't main boss worthy. If he was, he would have fought any of Luffy/Law/Kidd. Instead he fought against a bum like Zoro
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It actually opened my eyes towards the reality of this dogshit series.
