Character Discussion Characters that are supposed to be kind, admirable or sympathetic but aren't

#41
So we’re gonna label anyone as a bad guy now huh? If that’s the case.

~ Dragon not doing anything to even try and save his son (bad guy)

~ Oden rather having sail for some more years then stay back and fight Kaido then n there

~ Luffy punching a celestial dragon and getting his friends in danger (knowing he could’ve gotten them killed)

~ Kuma willing to capture Luffy and bring him to sengoku or he’ll give zoro severe pain

~ Momonosuke willing to “sacrifice” his entire army just so he can become the shogun

~ Fujitora fighting Luffy and not doffy

there are 0 good guys in OP I am convinced.
I do get the point you're making but I guess it's really a matter of what each character did and the consequences of their actions.

For example, you mentioned Dragon, and like 90% of Dragon slander came up during EH when it was revealed that he did nothing to save Ginny.

I remember many comparisons to Fisher Tiger who invaded Mariejois and freed many slaves.

Obviously you can argue for Dragon since the situations differ but it's a bad look given how inactive he is despite being The Worst Criminal and WG Threat Ever, Totally.

Similarly I have seen many criticize Luffy for his impulsiveness. The CD thing not so much but his actions in Impel Down cause a HUGE amount of damage. Hannyaball even calls him out on it.

Comparatively though it doesn't get explored much outside of that. I mean Luffy does suffer, but it's because of being too weak...although I guess BB killing WB might count as a consequence.

Oden....well, 90% of the thread is just pointing fingers at Oden XD. I mean he's an impulsive twit but no one ever treats him as anything but a hero.

Kuma, Momo and Fuji I think feel a bit different because they aren't quite as glorified as the above three.

Kuma and Momo especially went through a lot of stuff which kind of explains their actions and Fuji is at least nominally still an antagonist.

Basically it's a matter of balance. Some characters feel too "buffed" unfairly by the narrative despite actually being just as morally gray as others.

I will say that some of this has to do with OP's verse being very biased to "seeker" characters as opposed to "grounded" ones.
 
#42
From a realist perspective, Dragon didn't really do anything wrong. Saving Ginny could have lead to the death of many RA members, or would have allowed the WG to gather Intel, and would have allowed them to follow the RA to their base like Burgess did to Sabo the retard. And the idea that he should still be protecting Luffy to this day is crazy. Saving him at logue town was enough
 
#43
OP is full of double standards and flawed morality. The Straw Hats themselves that are supposed to be the heroes are not paragons of heroism or morality if you give a closer look at their actions and are great examples of Protagonist Centered Morality, Luffy helping free many dangerous people at Impel Down and often allying with bastards being a good example of it, as well as Robin herself who did some assassination stuff and helped Crocodile in his attempt to cause a civil war in a country, take over it and kill hundreds of thousands if not millions in the process and hardly showed regret about the whole thing after.
 
#45
Sir Crocodile was too merciful to the Alabasta royal family. King Lobra made Lord Imu Sama throw a tantrum about his crush, leading to him destroying a country. Lobra did this because of a middle initial....
 
#49
A fodder isn’t worth being held at an execution platform broadcasted to the world, at best the fodder would be killed off or held prisoner but the news wouldn’t spread like wildfire, if the whitebeard pirates know where the fodder is present they will most likely show up but probably not as a grand fleet or anything because a fodder isn’t anywhere on the realm of importance and potential as ace was.
I agree, marines definitely wouldn't risk it either to openly challenge WBP if it was some fodder. They probably won't tell it, and at worst they will put him in some ID prison.

But lets hypothetically say, the marines put on a show for baiting WB. Would he still go for some fodder?
I think, probably yes.
 
#56
hiluluk. forcefully subjected vulnerable ppl to potentially lethal 'treatment', not giving a shit that they can die from whatever it is that he's doing to them. insufferably self-righteous about it too

zolo. he was being ignorant when he supported luffy in abandoning merry and he never acknowledged his mistake even though it was proven that merry was alive

burp. is friends with mr infanticide (lengoku) and defends the people-hunting CDs on god valley but somehow has the nerve to call pirates (which isn't even a properly defined term in OP) criminals as if he has any claim to moral superiority
 
#60
Oden, WB. WB was ready to sacrifice much of his crew to save a lone member in ace.
He told everyone that "if they are pirates, they are free to choose what to believe in".
If you didn't want to pull up to save Ace, you didn't have to.
The fact that so many ppl pulled up means that Ace was deeply loved, which was the main question Ace had in his own life: "Should I have been born"
That's the main theme of the Marineford arc, people loved Ace so much that they are willing to die for him.
 
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