Chapter Discussion Fucking first mate Zoro great advice bro

[vikas]

Zoro calling out hypocrisy like us to oda

Post automatically merged: Sep 16, 2022

About Ace.....
Luffy didn't know Ace got captured and was gonna be executed until the old lady from Amazon Lily told him when she explained the Shichibukais were summoned to fight the Whitebeard Pirates.

When Luffy talks about "Ace having his own adventure", he IMMEDIATELY says that, despite that, he's going to save Ace and postpones going back to Sabaody.

So this argument Zoro brings does absolutely NOTHING, because Luffy DID go for Ace as soon as he learned about his execution. He tried to ask how long it would take to gather his crew in Sabaody, but it would be too late.

Not only that, WB himself regrets sending Ace alone against Teach. Even Shanks warned him, but he ignored.

I know Oda is just trying to have Zoro be the "level-headed" here, but trying to justify this "ace argument" he used is beyond moronic.
Just accept Oda fumbled here and could have worded it better and move on.
Don't try to sprinkle gold on a pile of trash and call it "treasure".

Ace did not have a good Vice Captain

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

Zoro gave good advice to investigate matter first. Suppose you went to Mariejoes and Vivi was near to your previous location .

Exactly. Imagine strawhats attack the marine HQ to later find out that Vivi is not at Marijoa, she went into hiding somewhere else. Some of the crew will die for nothing.

 

[Julius]

This reminds me of those who used to bash Sanji for some of his decisions in WCI, while he was into a much more complex situation by far.


But the real point is: It isn't even Zoro who is dumb, its Oda's writing that feels retarded sometimes.

Oda thinks he is doing great, even if it isn't so great

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

They can....you know...try to investigate?
They don't even have a destination. They need the last Road Poneglyph.
This Road Poneglyph thing made so that the "grand line" route becomes completely irrelevant.

Oda could very well write that Robin knows how to contact the Revo Army.
They could, then, try to talk to Sabo about what happened. Not only Robin has ties to them, but also Sanji and Luffy know Ivankov, who's a known associate of Dragon.
etc.
There's a completely obvious plot hook right here.
But no. Gotta keep the script. Just throw a random info out there and completely disregard how the characters would act on it.
They went for Ennies Lobby to rescue Robin.
Luffy went to fucking Impel Down to rescue Ace.

Going "against all odds" is something they do, ESPECIALLY for someone dear to them.

So don't give me this "but, but marine HQ too stronk".

He literally have an army that he can call for help.

Once again they don't know where she is and agreed they can investigate, but Bonney will tell them

 

[Doggo]

Once again they don't know where she is and agreed they can investigate, but Bonney will tell them

Bonney is a non factor.
They didn't know she was there and just found her, by chance, days later.

 

[Kyou]

All the knowledge they have is that Cobra is dead from Sabo and Vivi is missing.

Clearly seems like bullshit and the assumption should be that Vivi is a captive in marijoa

Strawhats are doing Vivi dirty here

Yes one way or another we will find her

 

[ShiNoGekai]

Bonney is a non factor.
They didn't know she was there and just found her, by chance, days later.

She can tell she was there

There is little bit chance that Sabo and Bonney actually teamed up to save Kuma.

 

[L55]

Woro sanjiclowns mad again love to see it

 

[ZenZu]

Ace didn't die because SHs didn't go after him after TB/wouldn't have lived if they went and I don't think any SH including Luffy believes that considering no one called Zoro out on it

He was just using Luffy's beliefs to stop him from making a dumb decisions like going to Marine HQ for no reason since they dont even know where she is, it does come off as very insensitive though. Which probably helped set up the Alabasta callback of them calling him names because they care about Vivi

Tf are you talking about. Zoro wasn't trying to reassure them or make them less emotional. He was thinking logically like he always does. The rest of the crew shows that enltion. Just like the Ussop situation.

Post automatically merged: Sep 16, 2022

Huh, So luffy going to run back to everybody when they in slight trouble. So Ace should of ran back to luffy and save him every arc. How anout Shanks he should of saved Luffy every arc and stunt his growth. Ace was a pirate, he knows the deal which is why Luffy didn't go until he absolutely had too.

Yea no that's not the point. The intention is obvious, the execution is beyond stupid.

 

[vikas]

This reminds me of those who used to bash Sanji for some of his decisions in WCI, while he was into a much more complex situation by far.


But the real point is: It isn't even Zoro who is dumb, its Oda's writing that feels retarded sometimes.

Oda thinks he is doing great, even if it isn't so great

Oda:...oh shit even Luffy will know news about Vivi.
No worries I will let Zoro handle it in Logical way.
Let me use my last excuse as an excuse,, that way it will be consistent with my story plan.....
Little does he know...his last excuse itself was dogshit.

 

[Buggy D Clown]

Yea no that's not the point. The intention is obvious, the execution is beyond stupid.

You claimed Zoro was trying to comfort the crew and that Luffy's decision back in TB lead to Ace's death when neither is the case.
Zoro was saying don't throw away your beliefs because you are emotional that's all that was. It was Ace because that's when Luffy said it and he clearly still believes it was the right decision back then

 

[vikas]

Zoro and Luffy basically WG and Oda.

 

[ZenZu]

You claimed Zoro was trying to comfort the crew and that Luffy's decision back in TB lead to Ace's death when neither is the case.
Zoro was saying don't throw away your beliefs because you are emotional that's all that was. It was Ace because that's when Luffy said it and he clearly still believes it was the right decision back then

I believe either way it's incredibly stupid to say.

If he was trying to reassure them (which he was anyway, otherwise there would be no point in saying Vivi can hold her own).

Or if he was trying to remind Luffy to stay true to himself. Because
1.the first thing Luffy did when he found out Ace was in trouble was jump right into hell to bring him back.(When Luffy made that Ace statement was because he believed Ace could get out of it / before he knew he was in deep shit, Luffy rn is assuming Vivi is in a dire situation and doesn't hold the same confidence in her like he did Ace)
2.The Ace situation ended horribly, so using that as an example to remind Luffy to leave Vivi on her own is plain dumb. It doesn't work as a good example.

It doesn't matter what the crew thinks or how the crew reacts, it's obvious Oda intends the crew not to take it in that manner, but that's what makes it even more braindead writing.

 

[Vanlax]

Zoro wants no delay of bringing Luffy to Laugh Tale so he can fight Mihawk already.

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

When Luffy made that Ace statement was before he knew he was in trouble, Luffy rn is assuming Vivi is in trouble

He knew Ace was in trouble because Lola told him =>

 

[Koinboin]

Zoro "So why underestimate Vivi?"

Luffy "Uhh because of the Ace point you yourself just brought up?"

Zoro answered the question before he presented it lmao. Yea it's a head scratcher for sure.

If anything Luffy in particular worrying about Vivi shows proper PTSD because him not worrying about Ace lead to his capture. Normally I wouldn't even link this scenario to Ace's but Oda himself did, I don't even get what he was trying to say there...that unfavourable history should be repeated? It's like Oda forgot things didn't work out for Ace.

Zoro simply could have left it at "we can't afford to make rash decisions while not having all the information"

Yes, and no one countering the ace argument is also kind of weird to me, not even nami or sanji!?
Only thing that I can come up with is that, because unlike ace we don't know her location and situation at all. Even if it is the reason, it's still weird.

I agree with what zoro was trying to do but he should have used a better example or just don't give an example, just saying not to look down on vivi is enough. and when they have more information they can decide what to do.

 

[ZenZu]

He knew Ace was in trouble because Lola told him =>

Yea but Luffy put his faith in Ace's strength. He convinced himself Ace can pull through.

He does not have the same level of faith or respect for Vivi. Which is perfectly natural to begin with.

The only thing this scene served to do was give us a dumb "she's a strong independent women" moment. Zoro is saying Luffy should treat Vivi the same way he treated Ace.

If Zoro was lying and just saying a bunch of bs because he thinks its a dumb decision for the crew to move on it rn, that would be savage but cool. That's not what this scene is though it implies he believes the shit he's saying about Vivi and Ace, and what he's saying is some goofy shit in reality.

 

[Shanal]

Yea but Luffy put his faith in Ace's strength. He convinced himself Ace can pull through.

He does not have the same level of faith or respect for Vivi. Which is perfectly natural to begin with.

The only thing this scene served to do was some dumb women empowerment moment. Zoro is saying Luffy should treat Vivi the same way he treated Ace.

If Zoro was lying and just saying a bunch of bs because he thinks its a dumb decision for the crew to move on it rn, that would be savage but cool. That's not what this scene is though it implies he believes the shit he's saying about Vivi and Ace, and what he's saying is some goofy shit in reality.

Wonder if Zoro would be fine with Vivi dying if they knew for sure she's in Mariejoes and about to get beheaded or something.

I mean, he went into Enies Lobby to rescue Robin, but this is completely different level.

 

[ZenZu]

Wonder if Zoro would be fine with Vivi dying if they knew for sure she's in Mariejoes and about to get beheaded or something.

I mean, he went into Enies Lobby to rescue Robin, but this is completely different level.

That would be cool honestly. Zoro is grounded in reality most of the time.

He told Luffy to fuckoff about Sanji in WCI. Now he may have been acting a bit of a tsundere, or maybe he trusts Sanji to pull through. But when the odds are stacked this much against you, some routes are just stupid to take.

I don't think Oda would ever have Zoro say that about Vivi though.

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

Yea but Luffy put his faith in Ace's strength. He convinced himself Ace can pull through.

He does not have the same level of faith or respect for Vivi. Which is perfectly natural to begin with.

The only thing this scene served to do was some dumb women empowerment moment. Zoro is saying Luffy should treat Vivi the same way he treated Ace.

As I said in another thread, Vivi might not have her own pirate adventures, but she is not your average Joe. She is a very important figure in the world politics and there comes a certain risk with it. Luffy has to trust that she can overcome most of those dangers by herself as the second most powerful person and the future Queen of Alabasta Kingdom.

The Ace situation ended horribly

You are wrong about this too. Pirates live a life full of danger and death can strike at any time. Ace didnt regret his decisions. He died smiling.