Controversial General Political Discussion

[Logiko]

Yes it does. There are people that work hard, study and improve in life. While others doesn't. They just play around. And therefore they don't succeed. And that's independently of your conditions. Poor or rich doesn't matter in this aspect.

This make more sence, indeed there are people who work hard and others not so much. But I think that you are failing to see who is really succeeding here. Because usually, those who don't work hard are those who have money.

Of course. The world is full of exceptions so you can have your delusional rule that doesn't exist in reality.

Yes, in this case, transclass are a sociological and documented exception. They are simply not the norm.

If you don't work hard you can expect receiving nothing in return.

That's a myth mate :)
In reality, working hard and succeeding are two unrelated things.

People are poor because of dictatorships like the ones you defend

SO you are saying that there is a system that is OUT of people's control (even if this is a complete BS system) that prevent people from being rich despite the fact that Meritocracy do exist ?

Interesting... Its just like you just proved that working hard is not enough to succeed

because of government that took money from people and barely gives anything in return

No, not really xD

governament that prevents free market so the economy can develop

So you think people are being kept poor simply because there is no free market ? So again, working hard is not the solution and therefore meritocracy is a myth :)

, but of course we may always have those who wants to do nothing to get better in life

Oh here we go... "some people are poor because they want to stay poor". And you manage to sleep while being such a inhuman piece of work ?

As if some people were just happy to be poor... capitalism really brainwashed your brain little boy.

And the only one backed by science here is me. Your pseudo science is not science.

No. Lmao. But its not like I could ask a far right ignorant to really care about social sciences.

But hey, keep leaving in your dream world, I guess you will never understand the real one...

And thanks for proving that meritocracy is - indeed - a myth.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

The constant meritocracy talk may be worse than the constant trans talk we ha dhalf a year ago...

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Why do politics when you can do poly relationships with hookers all for the low fee of possibly getting an STD

Fr!!! STD’s are just for life. No biggie.

 

[Logiko]

The constant meritocracy talk may be worse than the constant trans talk we ha dhalf a year ago...

Each subjects are important. That's what politic is.
We can't have a good debate if we jump subject every day.

And when the core problem of society can be sum up to one concept, its important to do everything to debunk it.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

We can't have a good debate

This thread never does

 

[Logiko]

This thread never does

A good debate is not necessarily a friendly one, in fact its rarely the case. Politic is about conflict. Without conflict there is no need for politic and therefore no need for debate.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

A good debate is not necessarily a friendly one, in fact its rarely the case. Politic is about conflict. Without conflict there is no need for politic and therefore no need for debate.

Amor a Luna

 

[Herrera95]

This make more sence, indeed there are people who work hard and others not so much. But I think that you are failing to see who is really succeeding here. Because usually, those who don't work hard are those who don't have money.

Nope. They are not. Some who have money doesn't work hard because they really don't have to. But the vast majority it is the poor. And when I say work hard is also work smart. You can work harder with labor work because you didn't worked hard at school to learn a better job (and yes soon to be replaced by technology because society has to improve and doing it brings more benefit than harm).

Here in Brazil it is common for some people to study hard and become public employees because they can't be fired and then they start to work lazy which isn't fair because of how governament works. This doesn't happen in private free market because even if you are CEO or related to it and don't get fired your income will be decreased since you will be doing worse work than your competitions and eventually will go bankruptcy.

Yes, in this case, transclass are a sociological and documented exception. They are simply not the norm.

Whatever bullshit term you people invent to make your lie become true.

That's a myth mate :)
In reality, working hard and succeeding are two unrelated things.

Working hard is a generic term. In fact working smart is more efficient. And yes it doesn't mean you will succeed but pretty much everyone that succeed did worked hard. You can't be a Mr Olympia without working hard and smart at gym, at diet and at recovery. You can't be a Nobel Winner without working hard and smart on your science field. You can't be rich without working hard and smart on your income.

SO you are saying that there is a system that is OUT of people's control (even if this is a complete BS system) that prevent people from being rich despite the fact that Meritocracy do exist ?

Interesting... Its just like you just proved that working hard is not enough to succeed

Yes. Meritocracy will exist no matter the system. But government does influence on that. That's why monopolies are created. Companies are helped by the governament taht eliminates their competition. The biggest example is taxing. High taxes allows consolidate big companies to monopolize the market while new small companies competition will face much harder difficulty to operate.

No, not really xD

Yes dude. Really. Stop denying reality. We can clearly see in Brazil how governament is inefficient to help the south people on their flooding catastrophe while civilians are helping them and donating besides paying their taxes. We don't have a decent public health system despite paying for it (and people still think they can mock USA for not having one) we don't have security here since criminal rates are high and we pay for it (because left wing dominated justice system and doesn't allow criminals to be in jail anymore plus released a corrupted condemned ex president and was put in power again, jails massively voted for him), and we don't have a strong economy because of the so many problems of Brazil. Insecure Justice stability, you never know when Supreme Court will change their minds over something they already declared to be inside Law and goes back demanding taxes and punishment to companies. And many other things.

So you think people are being kept poor simply because there is no free market ? So again, working hard is not the solution and therefore meritocracy is a myth :)

You can always work hard and leave your country for a better one. That's what people at Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea and other dictatorships does.

Oh here we go... "some people are poor because they want to stay poor". And you manage to sleep while being such a inhuman piece of work ?

As if some people were just happy to be poor... capitalism really brainwashed your brain little boy.

Yes dude. Some people does want to be poor. They don't want to be rich. People are different. Is funny how you can't understand that besides defending the alphabet people.

No. Lmao. But its not like I could ask a far right ignorant to really care about social sciences.

But hey, keep leaving in your dream world, I guess you will never understand the real one...

And thanks for proving that meritocracy is - indeed - a myth.

Take a look at real science talking about pandemics measures that pseudo science forced people to take. And then come back here to talk about science you denier.

 

[LackEars]

Fr!!! STD’s are just for life. No biggie.

This guy gets it
72 virgins? How about 72 hookers, at least they know what they're doing

 

[Logiko]

Nope. They are not.

I made a mistake, I put two "don't" instead of one. I meant to say that those who don't work hard are those who have money. But you got it anyway.

But the vast majority it is the poor.

Nah. I think you are completely delulu mate.

And when I say work hard is also work smart

1. To work smart is not to work hard.
2. To work "smart" you need to be teached. This is not something you do on pure talent. And most people don't have access to this knowledge. Again, read some sociology for once.

and yes soon to be replaced by technology because society has to improve and doing it brings more benefit than harm

What will happen is only more people in the street, that's all. Unless we give the means of productions to workers of course and stop giving them to people who are profiting from their work :)

Here in Brazil it is common for some people to study hard and become public employees because they can't be fired and then they start to work lazy

Actually, doing the bare minimum is sometimes the SMART solution.

Let's say that we have two workers who live in bad condition. They got barely enough to live and their employer is refusing to raise their wages. Well, in that case, the smart woker is the worker who will do the bare minimum and push the limits of the employer to get a raise. The one that is working hard without any hope to get paid more is actually being used by the system.

You see, what you are calling poor lazy people are actually and most likely smart people that REFUSES to be used by the system and capitalism. Those ARE the smart people.

You live with the myth that working more means that you will be paid more, but as I demonstrated already (and as science has already demonstrated), this is not how the world works. People who have power will use it and no matter how hard some people are working, they won't be paid more or become rich.

You live in the world of care bears and your delusion is killing the entire world slowly.

Whatever bullshit term you people invent to make your lie become true.

In other words, you don't care about technicity and reality

Working hard is a generic term. In fact working smart is more efficient.

Not necessarily, working smart or working hard will sometimes just get you so far. Those are not related to success.

but pretty much everyone that succeed did worked hard.

That's literally called the survivorship bias:

You are basing your reasonning on those who have succeeded instead of taking everyone (even those who worked hard but failed) into account. Which is completely biasing and destroying your reasonning. Making it fallacious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

You can't be a Mr Olympia without working hard and smart at gym, at diet and at recovery. You can't be a Nobel Winner without working hard and smart on your science field

Again, survivorship bias.

Check it up.

You can't be rich without working hard and smart on your income.

Actually in that case you can. You don't need to be smart or work hard to be rich, you just need to inherit. Which is how most rich people are becoming rich.

There are also other parameters that are completely unrelated to working smart or working hard.

You are - again - being completely ignorant about the sociological reality of the world and nature of classes. You live in a dream world. A dream world that is hurting everyone.

Yes. Meritocracy will exist no matter the system

You just proved that its not the case mate.



If people are poor now its precisely because meritocracy DOES NOT exist :)

U funny.

That's why monopolies are created.

Monopoly are created because rich people want more money, that's all.

Yes dude. Really. Stop denying reality.

YOU are the one denying science and calling it "pseudo science" mate. YOU are the one acting like a flat earther denying the sociological reality of the world and scientific researches.

Not me

We can clearly see in Brazil how governament is inefficient to help the south people on their flooding catastrophe while civilians are helping them and donating besides paying their taxes.

I'm not a specialist on the brazil question mate I'm sorry, but a gov can't fight such a crisis if measures were not taken LONG BEFORE in order to prevent such disaster or even to create a found for such disasters to help people in distress. And let me check ....

Yeah... the last president was indeed a climatosceptic.

That actually explains a lot..

We don't have a decent public health system despite paying for it (and people still think they can mock USA for not having one)

Well, I have.
And its Goooooood
#ThanksSocialism #ThanksTheLeft

I guess you will have to get rid of people who are against a decent public health in your country.. wait, you are a far rightist.. aren't you one of those ? lol

we don't have security here since criminal rates are high and we pay for it (because left wing dominated justice system and doesn't allow criminals to be in jail anymore plus released a corrupted condemned ex president and was put in power again, jails massively voted for him)

Jails do help to reduce criminality mate. That's what your ignorant mind is failing to understand.

Less poverty can reduce criminality. More rights can reduce criminality. Less racism can reduce criminality. More public health can reduce criminality. Decent minimal wage can reduce criminality. Decent workers rights can reduce criminality.

If your answer to violence is moreviolence, you will only create violence.

This simple sentence should be as easy for you to understand as 1+1=2 ! But no.. your ultra capitalistic mind is so brainwashed by far right toxic ideas that you can't even think outside the box.

and we don't have a strong economy because of the so many problems of Brazil

Well, start by voting for those who are fighting for the poor instead of voting for far right deep piece of work that are climatosceptic and you might actually get somewhere.

You can always work hard and leave your country for a better one. That's what people at Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea and other dictatorships does.

Those country are no better than others concerning meritocracy. No country on earth got rid of that bogus mindset. That's in fact the reason why no country on earth are paradises.

Some people does want to be poor.

Yeah, you are inhuman on top of being completely delulu

Saying "some people want to be poor" is the same as saying "some people want to suffer"

You are so far into the capitalistic brainwash that your are saying straight up nonsence to justify something that you can't explain.

Take a look at real science talking about pandemics measures

The real science being the pandemic told you to stay the F inside and take the shot. And your anti-science president of the time that you defended Bolsozero thought that it was the good idea not to listen to the warnings (like many others lunatic leaders at the time including the french president). So yeah.. Don't talk about science in that context, it won't be good for you lol

You are - again - denying science. In reality I think that you don't really care about science or the scientific consensus.

- You are a climatosceptic
- You don't believe that Vaxinne can help against COVID
- You don't believe or understand social sciences
- You are incapable of giving any datas or scientific researchs to back up your claims

You are the paragon of anti-science in this thread mate.

 

[Yoho]

🤣 this thread is always hilarious to read through

 

[Logiko]

🤣 this thread is always hilarious to read through

I won't lie, I'm having fun

 

[Herrera95]

What will happen is only more people in the street, that's all. Unless we give the means of productions to workers of course and stop giving them to people who are profiting from their work :)

The same fallacy said about every technology that comes in yet that doesn't happen yet even less people are being unemployed. Plus you fail to understand the most basic concept of economy that is suply and demand. If the supply is so much bigger than the demand than the price becomes lower and lower until it is useless. In the future when everything is done by machine no one will have to work. But you don't like this future because you want control and the power to tell who must live and who don't.

 

[Logiko]

The same fallacy said about every technology that comes in yet that doesn't happen yet even less people are being unemployed. Plus you fail to understand the most basic concept of economy that is suply and demand. If the supply is so much bigger than the demand than the price becomes lower and lower until it is useless. In the future when everything is done by machine no one will have to work.

And what you understand is that between that period and now, there will be a period of transition that will be hell on earth for worker who will be replaced for more productivity.

Again, you don't understand that right now, its worker who are doing the work so its THEM that we need to think about.

But you don't like this future because you want control and the power to tell who must live and who don't.

Dude, I'm literally passionnated by SF and I'm advocating for systems that would put shiver down your spine.

But what you don't understand is that there are no shortcuts in life neither toward the future. You are a kid that want the future now for your own interest and your own ego without thinking about the consequences, that's not what society needs right now. Society needs more rights for workers THEN we can talk about automatization.

 

[Herrera95]

And what you understand is that between that period and now, there will be a period of transition that will be hell on earth for worker who will be replaced for more productivity.

Again, you don't understand that right now, its worker who are doing the work so its THEM that we need to think about.

No it won't. There will be only productivity improvement that lead to less people poor less people starving less people struggling. Welcome to capitalism, free market and technology improvement work. You live in a society based on that. Try study a bit os real story not just your pseudo science leftist.

 

[Logiko]

There will be only productivity improvement

Sorry but your mind is here:

That's not the real world. And it will never happen by smashing the rights of people. As long as worker don't own the means of production and as long as some people like you thinks that some people are more valuable than others, paradise will never happen.

Welcome to capitalism, free market and technology improvement work.

Yeah, don't worry, I see it already and this is hell. Your are advocating for a world full of inequalities without even being aware of it.

You live in a society based on that.

Yes, and society is BS right now.

Try study a bit os real story not just your pseudo science leftist.

Try delivering real scientific data mate. Right now, I've seen nothing coming from you but anti-scientifism.

 

[Herrera95]

Sorry but your mind is here:

That's not the real world. And it will never happen by smashing the rights of people. As long as worker don't own the means of production and as long as some people like you thinks that some people are more valuable than others, paradise will never happen.


Yeah, don't worry, I see it already and this is hell. Your are advocating for a world full of inequalities without even being aware of it.



Yes, and society is BS right now.





Try delivering real scientific data mate. Right now, I've seen nothing coming from you but anti-scientifism.

That's you dude. Completely disconnected of the reality of the world. That's why you cheer for terrorists and gives no shit about hostages.

 

[Logiko]

Completely disconnected of the reality of the world.

Please, go to the leftist library , check the number of scientific studies I'm using to make my points, come back here, and try to tell me once again that I'm disconnected from reality without hesitating on your keyboard.

That's why you cheer for terrorists and gives no shit about hostages.

Can you prove what you just said or are you just trying to sh*t through your mouth right now ?

Because if you want me to start saying that you are defending fascists and terrorists... I can do that mate, and I have a lot more proofs than you to back up that affirmation.

You really want to play that game ?

 

[Roo]

The constant meritocracy talk may be worse than the constant trans talk we ha dhalf a year ago...

i mean the anti meritocracy side is literally spearheaded by a guy who has issues with motivation...

it's kinda funny when you think of it that way

 

[Logiko]

i mean the anti meritocracy side is literally spearheaded by a guy who has issues with motivation...

it's kinda funny when you think of it that way

Ironically, meritocracy is the first enemy I had to get rid of to start healing.

It was preventing me from seeing myself as a legitimate person. Before getting rid of that, for me my situation was my fault and I was deserving my life.