Great Generals Tournament, Losers R1 - Round 2

Who Wins?


  • Total voters
    15

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#1
:funky:

Rules:
-Some of the Generals featured in this tournament have only hype and no feats, so just vote based on who you think would win based on whatever reasoning you feel!
-You MUST vote in the poll for your vote to count!
-Discussion is of course encouraged but keep it civil. Feel free to try and persuade each other why the General you feel is stronger overall would win.
-Every General in the Losers Bracket still has a legitimate shot at winning the entire tournament. However, if you lose a round in the losers bracket, you are out of the tournament.

Loser of this round is Eliminated

Round 1 - Losers R2

Hou Ken

-Hou Ken has a version of the army that was placed under him in the Bayou Arc, 100,000 Zhao Soldiers
-Subordinate Generals:
Chou Sou
Fuu Ki
Ri Haku
Kou Son Ryuu
Man Goku
Shou Mou

VERSUS

Kan Ki

-Kan Ki has a bigger version of the Bandit Army that he brought into Koku You Hills, 100,000 Bandits
-Subordinate Generals/Commanders:
Rin Gyoku
Koku'Ou
Ma Ron
Rai Do
Zenou
Saki
(etc)

Location: Bayou Outskirts
Scenario: Kan Ki begins on the Zhao Side. Hou Ken begins on the Qin side.
War to slay the opposing commander or force them to surrender by any means necessary. Literally any strategy or lack-there-of is allowed. If you think one of the Generals would permanently retreat, count that as a loss for that General.

Who Wins and Why?

 
N

NeutralWatcher

#2
Kanki.

Kanki has stronger soldiers than Houken. Not only stronger soldiers but also stronger subordinates. Raido Clashed with Shin, Zenon and his soldiers also proved to be formidable when they mow down some Zhao soldiers with ease.

Marooon is also a better strategist than any subordinates on Houken side.

Kanki himself is also a better starategist than Houken.

The only way Houken has a chance of winning is if he has a strategist than is better than Maroon.
 
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Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#3
I actually think I'm going to vote for Houken in this matchup lol, mainly because I don't think the Kan Ki Army really has a real answer to him as a warrior. I don't think anyone should underestimate the sheer ferocity of Houken's martial strength.

On top of all the stuff Hou Ken is typically known for (fighting on par with Ou Ki, thrashing Duke Hyou, low-diffing Geki Shin, etc). this is the same dude that was tearing his way through Mountain Warriors with ease and with a broken arm:


On top of this, Gekishin's personal cavalry, which are actually Quan Rong troops who are basically equal to Mountain Tribe soldiers:

And Houken thrashed the absolute mess out of these men:





Hou Ken's raw martial skill is so extreme that even dozens of men attacking him all at once means absolutely nothing:



And I just don't think Kan Ki's methods of warfare will have any effect on Houken himself. Nobody in Kanki's army bar Zenou is pushing Houken to mid diff in a fight, and even Zenou is just a brute whom Houken will easily outskill and slay pretty quickly. Unless Kanki shows himself to be a damn artist with the sword, then he truly has no ability to slay Houken here. Absolutely none.

And this is even underestimating Houken's own subordinate Generals and assuming that they won't be able to deal with Kanki's subordinates when really there's not much yet that supports that notion.

Two of Kanki's most capable subordinates, Rai Do and Koku'Ou aren't even Generals, Rai Do is a 4,000 Man Commander while Koku'Ou is a 5,000 Man Commander, while Hou Ken has actual Generals by his side (and capable ones too like Kou Son Ryuu and Chou Sou).

So really Kanki's subordinates debatably don't even win their matchups against Houken's if you want to take statements about their ranks seriously.

But even if Kanki's subordinates, somehow using their unorthodox tactics, manage to outplay Houken's, there is still the problem of Houken himself who again, Kanki's army really has no way of actually dealing with, unlike Yo Tan Wa who could actually overwhelm him with brute force and a strong ass army.

Houken isn't stupid, he isn't going to try and slay all 100,000 of Kanki's bandits by himself, he'll spend most of the battle hiding until he spots the perfect opportunity to bust in and slay Kanki's commanders and eventually Kanki himself, without too much resistance tbh. And the Kanki army has no answer to this other than to call repeated retreats in an attempt to slowly widdle down Houken's numbers, and I'm sorry but I think Chou Sou and Fuu Ki would not allow this to happen so easily.

The Hou Ken Army wins this, around a mid/high diff.
 
#4
Kan Ki for me. I get that Houken is all mighty and stuff but he lacks a strategic mind. And Kan Ki is sure gonna use it against him. Let’s not forget that clashing head-on isn’t Kan Ki style. He pre plans the battle and only acts after being sure of victory. He is literally the second coming - Ousen but more brutal with no care of consequences. He has a way of divide and conquer strategy in every battle.

Since, this is an open battlefield Houken might have chance to fully show off his martial might and slay few of Kan Ki Generals but after a while Kan Ki is sure gonna see his flaws and exploit the F out of it.
Any subordinate of Houken isn’t capable of out smarting the Kan Ki generals. Their top strategist Fu uki got played in Ouki’s tune from the day 1 of the war. And Kan Ki is someone whom even Ouki personally praised to be on the level of Qin’s 6 GG.
Man Goku seemed brutal aF but compared to Kan Ki army he looks cute aF.
Shou MOU thought he was on par with Qin’s GG and believed in him being superior than them. I’m pretty sure he will be the first one to be lured in the trap and get slayed.
Any other Generals from Houken side will have their mind f***ed by Kan Ki army and their weird but effective strategy. From the likes of Raido, Geno, Saki clan, Kan Ki army is gonna rain hell on Zhao army. And to slay the Beast Houken, Mar Ron, Koko’Ou, the Joker and the main Man himself gonna have to cook up some strategy in their HQ. No sneak attacks gonna work on their HQ btw. Even Rinko passed onto attacking their base.
 
#5
Kanki is one of my favourite characters, i probably placed him right next to Ryo Fei in the Favourites thread.

But i think he might not be able to win this, for 2 specific reasons and 1 Weakness
1) Houken himself, his Strength is Top Tier in Kingdom and there hardly are few who can match him, much less defeat him. Zenou clan is only chance Kanki has, from so far we have seen and i dont think they would be capable of defeating Houken but with Raw power alone.
For Houken is Max when if comes to Raw strength, and only a General with good enough weight can topple him, which imo cancel everyone out but Kanki himself, but there ain't much showing of him being an outstanding fighter. Kanki Strength stats matches that of Ousen i.e 93 for whom Banaji was presented as Big threat, if we are to consider Official stats due to lack of panels. I think Kanki can best your usual Generals bt someone like Houken, it's right to assume he won't.

2) Kanki speciality is his Cruelty, there are no limits on him from judging thing from moral conscience, which allows him to consider things and ways to best enemies that most wouldn't even think of doing that's what make him amusing character for me and a threat to morally righteous characters like Ki sui, Riboku or Shin for example.
But since he is against Houken here, who has hype of slaying GGs like Ou ki n Duke Hyou, i dont think Kanki would be able to play Zhou into fear by sending heads or something, since Houken himself is leading em and is renown is world known at this point. Any psychological warfare wouldn't also work since Houken has no such weakness, which leaves Kanki with his Gambles as last resort, and open to possible excounters for Houken who seems to have 6th sense when it comes to locating GGs.

3)In each of situations, we have seen Kanki act on, he has never been pushed to brink or in difficult situations,
but in present war, when he receives the news of Riboku army returning while they had Gyou surrounded, it highlighted the major weakness of his crew i.e they are not usual crew or army but are Allies that are part of Kanki army as long as it suits em(like Naki points out), it's because Kanki places no limits on em and they can do as they pleases with hostages or loots. And such there is no loyalty in the crew, hence one of the Kanki subordinate directly states that he would run from Battlefield, when he sees situation go out of hand, to Kanki himself.
Which can affect Kanki Army in two ways
1) Abondoning Kanki in difficult situation.
2) Kanki Army running scared if Houken terror isn't stopped after certain timeperiod.

Kanki also seems to Gamble a lot, which at times can also be twisted and so is weakness, that Riboku n SSJ figures out after Kanki arc. I already accounted how it can play a factor here it in one of the above reasons tho.

I think it will be Houken victory more than it's not. But the reason i am not entirely sure is, Unlike Ouki, Kanki has no grudge against Houken and can swiftly keep on killing off Houken Generals one by one and once everyone are taken out, Houken Army would be reduced to lost and vulnerable soldiers with no one guiding em, that Kanki Army can easily kill off.
But that is, if Kanki is able to Kill off em before Houken makes it to him, since Houken has out of world senses when it comes to locating GGs and if he makes it to Kanki, the battle will be over.
 
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#6
Kanki.

Kanki has stronger soldiers than Houken. Not only stronger soldiers but also stronger subordinates. Raido Clashed with Shin, Zenon and his soldiers also proved to be formidable when they mow down some Zhao soldiers with ease.

Marooon is also a better strategist than any subordinates on Houken side.

Kanki himself is also a better starategist than Houken.

The only way Houken has a chance of winning is if he has a strategist than is better than Maroon.
I lowkey think Ma Ron high tails outta there if every faced with the prospect of facing Houken:ROFLMAO:

OT: I'd have to go for Houken. Kan Ki army just doesn't have an answer to Houken's martial might. Houken could be faced with Kanki and all his generals and I wouldn't bet against him. Also Kan Ki excels with dirty tactics and stuff which I don't think will be effective on Houken given Houken doesn't really care about anything. Lastly, the Kan Ki army doesn't seem like a close knit bunch of buddies and are a ragtag bunch that are able to work together coz of Kanki so if Kanki falls or is ever faced with a situation where there is no way out, I think his generals bail on him.
 
#7
Why is everyone assuming Houken alone is enough of a reason to win ..:kayneshrug:its a full scale war with 100,000 army in both side. Even Hoken has his limits unless he manages to somehow bypass all of the defenses set by Kan Ki and slay him in an instantaneous move there is no way he can out match the strategist of the Kan Ki army.
And none of the Generals on his side has the ability to out smart Kan ki and his greatness including Houken himself.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#8
I agree that Houken himself has no match in the opposite side. We don't know Kanki might but he doesn't seem to be at Houken level even if we give him some credit.

But KanKi is not to be underestimated. And Houken is not really a reasonable guy . Kanki can capture some Zhao soldiers with the Saki clan and they can tell him informations about Houken.
Kanki can use Houken mind against him : taunts him about his defeats against OuKi or his fight against Hyou or Shin.
Kanki is pretty strong in mind games. If Kanki presents himself like someone worthy of a 6GG and make noise about his strength or if he lets the rumor run that Houken cannot defeat him or that he is on par with OuKi etc : Houken will want to face him. Or KanKi can even frustrate Houken by delaying his encounter with him to make him mad etc.

And Kanki is not at all a fair player : arrow in the back, trap, tag team etc etc.

But yeah even with that Houken will be hard to deal with.

I don't really remember the value of the other generals in Houken side except Chou sou and that Man Goku who will unease even the Kanki army.

But if Kanki managed to slay Houken I see him win this.
 
#9
Why is everyone assuming Houken alone is enough of a reason to win ..:kayneshrug:its a full scale war with 100,000 army in both side. Even Hoken has his limits unless he manages to somehow bypass all of the defenses set by Kan Ki and slay him in an instantaneous move there is no way he can out match the strategist of the Kan Ki army.
And none of the Generals on his side has the ability to out smart Kan ki and his greatness including Houken himself.
Hokuen is simply just that strong imo. The mere sight of Hokuen’s martial might and his scream was enough to render every single soldier & their horses(allies & enemies alike) in close proximity of the Shin v Hokuen battlefield immobile save Shin, Kyoukai & Riboku IIRC. Numbers don’t really mean anything against Hokuen.
 
#10
Hokuen is simply just that strong imo. The mere sight of Hokuen’s martial might and his scream was enough to render every single soldier & their horses(allies & enemies alike) in close proximity of the Shin v Hokuen battlefield immobile save Shin, Kyoukai & Riboku IIRC. Numbers don’t really mean anything against Hokuen.
You are correct on numbers not meaning a thing against the Houken but this is the Ex Bandit turned GG Kanki we are talking about. He is not at all fair player like other Generals that Houken has ever encountered. As @RayanOO mentioned Kan Ki will use every tactics in the book and beyond to secure his victory. He never confronts his opponent in the way they want him to. It’s always on his terms. The number here is only to give him the time to set his terms right.
 
#11
You are correct on numbers not meaning a thing against the Houken but this is the Ex Bandit turned GG Kanki we are talking about. He is not at all fair player like other Generals that Houken has ever encountered. As @RayanOO mentioned Kan Ki will use every tactics in the book and beyond to secure his victory. He never confronts his opponent in the way they want him to. It’s always on his terms. The number here is only to give him the time to set his terms right.
Still I don't think it'd be enough. Houken is pretty damn near unstoppable and he doesn't have any attachments to this world save his desire to become a martial god so Kanki cannot hold him to ransom with anything. Moreover, if Kanki were reckless enough to provoke him by bringing up Ouki and all those kind of things, he'd only be hastening his death. Against Shin, Houken remebered Ouki at some point during that battle as a result of Shin not staying down from his hits iirc and only go stronger as a result. Lastly, I also think Kanki's antics could prove to be counter-productive against the Zhao soldiers with Houken at the forefront coz Houken is just going to be mowing soldiers down which would serve as massive source of motivation to them giving them a sense that they cannot lose and then Kanki's antics will only drive them into a fury of rage which could make them unstoppable (particularly mangoku's army) as it could potentially make them immune to even Houken's crushing aura on the battlefield. I'm not confident even Houken's aura could stop Mangoku and his men from moving if they are completely enraged.
 
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Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#12
Why is everyone assuming Houken alone is enough of a reason to win ..:kayneshrug:its a full scale war with 100,000 army in both side. Even Hoken has his limits unless he manages to somehow bypass all of the defenses set by Kan Ki and slay him in an instantaneous move there is no way he can out match the strategist of the Kan Ki army.
And none of the Generals on his side has the ability to out smart Kan ki and his greatness including Houken himself.
Because Houken has very capable strategists under his wing.

Chou Sou, Fuu Ki, Ri Haku, and especially Kou Son Ryuu, all of these men are capable generals, and there’s no good reason to assume Kan Ki’s subordinates can best these men.

Kan Ki’s only traditional strategic minds in his army are Ma Ron and Koku Ou, Both of whom are literally nothing special as a strategists. They have been highlighted as capable strategists for sure but there is nothing that indicates that they can outplay Hou Ken’s strategists.

Kan Ki himself is a very specific type of general who needs to find his opponents weakness and exploit it, but he really has no way to do that against this army and Hou Ken in particular. Hou Ken’s weakness is that he doesn’t understand the Weight of a GG, and facing any strong General with Weight will confuse and frustrate him to the point that they actually stand a chance at slaying him.

Kan Ki has literally no method of exploiting this weakness. Kan Ki himself has never been portrayed as an overly martial General, and I seriously doubt he pushes Hou Ken as hard as Duke Hyou did. In fact I think Hou Ken slays him pretty quickly and easily if they actually try to fight, and none of Kan Ki’s subordinates stand a real chance against Houken either.

It’s a bad matchup for Kan Ki, as his subordinates are really nullified by Hou Ken’s subordinates while Kan Ki himself has no means whatsoever to capitalize on Hou Ken’s weakness, while Houken utterly plows through every warrior in his army.

Keep in mind, during the Battle of Sanyou, Kan Ki’s entire army could do utterly nothing to stop Kai Shi Bou, and KSB obliterated Kan Ki’s HQ on day 1 of the battle, forcing Kan Ki to strategically retreat to find some other weakness he could prey on.

And that was just Kai Shi Bou alone (with 0 strategic support) vs the whole Kan Ki army, and in this matchup we’re talking about Hou Ken with 6 Capable Generals at his side.
 
#13
Hmmm, everyone commenting here is claiming for Houken to be victorious but if he is all that mighty and unstoppable with those Generals by his side, why is he here on losers battle..?? I forgot who defeated him in the first poll..!! Lol
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#14
Hmmm, everyone commenting here is claiming for Houken to be victorious but if he is all that mighty and unstoppable with those Generals by his side, why is he here on losers battle..?? I forgot who defeated him in the first poll..!! Lol
He lost to Yo Tan Wa because unlike Kan Ki, Yo Tan Wa's army actually bodies Hou Ken's army and is filled with extremely strong warriors. Kan Ki's bandits are strong but they are also quite cowardly and Kan Ki's army doesn't have the brute strength that her army does lol.
 
#15
He lost to Yo Tan Wa because unlike Kan Ki, Yo Tan Wa's army actually bodies Hou Ken's army and is filled with extremely strong warriors. Kan Ki's bandits are strong but they are also quite cowardly and Kan Ki's army doesn't have the brute strength that her army does lol.
Zenou clan is pretty much made of Tajifus. Kan ki himself is more capable of leader than Yo TanWa cause just like TanWa he too unified the rough bandits with his fear of wiping them off if not joined him.

It’s given that his army lacks loyalty of TanWa army but he still has kept them on check and emerged victorious in numerous battles. Bajio is the wildcard in between his army and TanWa army but Kan Ki can fill the void by his strategy and utilising his army in such. The fear that Mountain people create is way less than that of Kan Ki army. Even his ally are afraid of them cause they don’t play by the books and will not think twice before abandoning the battles which is actually a double edged sword. Since they have no pressure of winning they can go all out with no restrictions on their actions. IMO.
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#16
Zenou clan is pretty much made of Tajifus. Kan ki himself is more capable of leader than Yo TanWa cause just like TanWa he too unified the rough bandits with his fear of wiping them off if not joined him.

It’s given that his army lacks loyalty of TanWa army but he still has kept them on check and emerged victorious in numerous battles. Bajio is the wildcard in between his army and TanWa army but Kan Ki can fill the void by his strategy and utilising his army in such. The fear that Mountain people create is way less than that of Kan Ki army. Even his ally are afraid of them cause they don’t play by the books and will not think twice before abandoning the battles which is actually a double edged sword. Since they have no pressure of winning they can go all out with no restrictions on their actions. IMO.
Sure the Zenou Clan is very powerful offensively, but Kan Ki certainly didn't seem to trust their strength against Kai Shi Bou now did he? And ofc, Hou Ken > Kai Shi Bou.

That's an interesting argument you just made there. Saying that Kan Ki is a better leader than Yo Tan Wa....because his armies aren't loyal to him? A really weird way of looking at things, both Kan Ki and Yo Tan Wa conquered their armies by force, and yet Yo Tan Wa's army is so loyal to her that they fought to the death against the Quan Rong while Kan Ki's almost retreated from him the second they found out that
Ri Boku was on the way. I'd say it's undoubtedly true that YTW is a better leader than Kan Ki. She actually literally united the mountain tribes under her Kingship, while the bandits that fight under Kan Ki are not truly loyal to him.
 
#17
Saying that Kan Ki is a better leader than Yo Tan Wa....because his armies aren't loyal to him? A really weird way of looking at things, both Kan Ki and Yo Tan Wa conquered their armies by force, and yet Yo Tan Wa's army is so loyal to her that they fought to the death against the Quan Rong while Kan Ki's almost retreated from him the second they found out that
Ri Boku was on the way.
What I meant was he gets the job done from the people who has occasionally shown dis-trust and dis loyalty to him. He some how got the whole wild dogs under his control to follow his lead and they all trust his judgements. Most importantly he too doesn't judges them for their actions which makes them wanna follow him even more. Sure they will abandon the battle if seemed unfavorable but that could be the double edged blade as I mentioned earlier.
 
#18
What I meant was he gets the job done from the people who has occasionally shown dis-trust and dis loyalty to him. He some how got the whole wild dogs under his control to follow his lead and they all trust his judgements. Most importantly he too doesn't judges them for their actions which makes them wanna follow him even more. Sure they will abandon the battle if seemed unfavorable but that could be the double edged blade as I mentioned earlier.
That could be some twisted way of leadership, and it is possible. I mean Kanki is smart Man he has been Bandit his whole life and probably have better understanding of these Bandits than anyone else, he knows what they wants and feels it is foolish to expect true loyalty from em, and get jobs done this way by allowing em complete freedom after winning battle.
But that doesn't still take the weakness away from Kanki Army, they can't be trusted to help Kanki at critical moments, if Houken is like 1vs 1 him, unlike YTW brave Mauntain warriors that will go down to their death without any second thoughts, Kanki soldiers will focus on own their life once they realise Houken is unstoppable, which he truly is.

Ofcrs it should only be true in extreme cases when the situation looks impossible to come out Victor from, else Kanki wouldn't have guaranteed so many wins up until nw.

I guess it comes down to how much we percieve Houken as unstoppable one man Army. If collectively you believe he can be killed, Kanki is deem to come out victor but if you don't think so, you will choose Houken victor.
 
#19
Kan ki himself is more capable of leader than Yo TanWa cause just like TanWa he too unified the rough bandits with his fear of wiping them off if not joined him.
There can't be nothing better than gaining allies(more so Loyalty) from even your enemies, and YTW has won enemies tribes multiple times and she did the same against Quanrong forces, in enemy country.

And Even tho Kanki's way works well with Bandits, especially since they are bandits, that can't be compared to loyalty YTW enjoys from her people, there's no match for that.

There's only few who can match YTW when it comes to leadership qualities, so don't make illogical claims.
Bajio is the wildcard in between his army and TanWa army but Kan Ki can fill the void by his strategy and utilising his army in such
That is going by the assumption, Kanki is superior to YTW as a Leader or General. Completly Untrue.

Official Statswise, YTW is better than Kanki in everything, Strength, Intelligence or Leadership. Only edge he has is Cruelty and it indeed can make big difference at times, but all in all they are at similar level as Generals. They just have different ways of working and approach as Generals and i am also more of a fan of Kanki way of doing things.
 
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#20
How much Houken going to listen ChouSou here !? Lol

If he didn't listen than he loses pretty badly but if he listens order like with Riboku than ChouSou might take this with extreme diff.

Or if someone in Kanki's side could trigger Houken's radar than again ChouSou has some chances of winning.
 
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