Great Generals Tournament, Losers R2 - Round 3

[Lee Ba Shou]

This month long wait is going to be a tough one lol. But to Hara I say, take all the time you need. I will wait patiently. Lol

Loser of this round is Eliminated

Rules:
-Some of the Generals featured in this tournament have only hype and no feats, so just vote based on who you think would win based on whatever reasoning you feel!
-You MUST vote in the poll for your vote to count!
-Discussion is of course always welcome but keep it civil. Feel free to try and persuade each other why the General you feel is stronger overall would win.

Round 3 - Losers Round 2

Mou Bu

-Number 1 Qin General: As the first of the current Generation of Qin Generals to reach the rank of Great General, Moubu has a larger 200,000 man Qin Army, including his usual commanders/subordinates
-Subordinate Generals/Commanders:
Moubu will be joined by his son, Mou Ten, and his Gaku Ka Unit (as they appeared during the Battle of Shukai Plains, including Ko Zen and Riku Sen):

Spoiler

Rai Ki
Chou Si
Ken Fu
etc.

VERSUS

Ka Rin

-Prime Minister of Chu: Ka Rin has a larger Chu Army of 250,000 (Including her Elephant Battalion that she used during the Battle for Kankoku Pass)
-Subordinates Generals/Commanders:
Kou Yoku (5,000 Man Commander)

Spoiler

Haku Rei

Spoiler

Ka En

Spoiler

Location: Chu/Qin Border (Where Ka Rin and Moubu held off each other in the Manga)
Scenario: War to slay the opposing commander or force them to surrender by any means necessary. Literally any strategy or lack-there-of is allowed. If you think one of the Generals would permanently retreat, count that as a loss for that General.

Who Wins and Why?

@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @Patryipe @Bullet @Dark Admiral @Guan Yu @Dovahkiin @Greenbeard @DizzyBrows @PuckTheGreat @MarineHQ62 @NeutralWatcher @RayanOO @Ninjashadow0209 @Arara @Hiragaro @Yo Tan Wa @Xione @FaradaySloth

 

[RayanOO]

I think I am going to vote for Lady Ka Rin for the win.

Yes Mou Bu is strong and in a head on clash against Ka Rin he will smash her. But Ka Rin is or seems to be a lot more clever than he is and has a lot more tactical mind than him.

Frankly without Mou Ten here I think Mou Bu will be beaten hard.

Ka Rin was impressive during Kankokou pass. She managed to press the Tou army, she used war elephants that took everyone by surprise, and the most impressive thing is she sent her best 5000 soldiers to sneak behind the pass. Without OuSen Ka RIn would have won the war. And those 5000 soldiers were rumored to be super strong and the strongest of her army.

I don't want to bring stats here because sometimes they don't seem to be accurate but Ka RIn has 97 and Mou Bu 86...This means that the author doesn't see them as equal in this field.

Ka RIn also has two talented officers : Kou Yoku with his sword is really strong, and Haku Rei is nasty too.

But Mou Bu has a wonder son at his side. The young Mou Ten is quite a beast himself : his feats during Shukai plains were impressive, even OuSen wanted to recruit him (but the guy wants to recruit everybody). HE manages to stall the left army all by himself and was appointed General during the battle. He fought mainly KiSui and co and even if KiSui is not Ka Rin at all, this is already quite the feat.
Mou Ten is superior to any other officers here. And can help MouBu greatly. With tactics, fights etc.

I think that Mou Ten can micro strike some part of the field and gain advantage over other KaRin officers. He can likely help MouBu too in the big strategy and prevent some Ka Rin ploys to be effective.

But I don't think this will be enough. For now I don't think Mou Ten is at Ka Rin level of strategy.

Ka Rin wins this in a somewhat difficult fight : Mou Ten will be a pain and Mou Bu is a monster.

 

[Dark Admiral]

I would want to give this to MouBu for his explosive powers alone. But, Karin is one cunning Strategist and MouBu isn’t too good at that part of the warfare. However as seen in the coalition arc, MouBu has become more humble guy and now follows the plans and strategy. He is a very dangerous sword which if handled properly can give you a powerful advantage. SHK did a pretty good job at that war by handling MouBu in the way he did.

Similarly we have Mouten here. He is the key factor here. I’m not saying he is on Karin level but he did save Qin’s left wing on his own command during Shukai Plains war. And he was up against Riboku, Kisui and co. directly in that battle with a fallen General at his side. None of the subordinate from Karin’s side has shown an intelligence of his caliber. He can surely keep up with Karin’s sinister war strategy while MouBu will brutally run through Chu army leading them to the win.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Alright, so let's break this one down in real time:

Tactical Advantage:
This would definitely have to go to the Ka Rin Army, Ka Rin is one of the best tacticians in the series. However, I actually think Mou Ten is getting pretty close to her. He's still beneath her don't get me wrong, but his tactics are absolutely top tier and he is low Great General level in this regard, similar to how current Shin would still be a weaker warrior than Ou Ki but can undoubtedly push Ouki to the limit of his strength. I think Moubu has enough sense to actually move his son from being a simple 5,000 Man Commander, into actually fulfilling a role as an overall strategist for this army. Mou Ten could provide very valuable insight and advice that could help to sway the overall battlefield, if not being the chief strategist for the whole Qin Army. He's capable of that I believe, and this would allow the Qin to at least have somewhat of an answer to Ka Rin's overwhelming tactics.

Martial Advantage:
Clearly the Mou Bu Army, though similar to the above, I don't think the advantage is actually as huge as we might believe. Ka Rin did claim that her strength was equal to Kan Mei, and while I think this is mostly hyperbole, imo it's clear that Ka Rin is extremely powerful as a warrior. Maybe a fight between her and Moubu would look like the fight between Gokei and Duke Hyou, with Duke Hyou being stronger sure, but Gokei could surely compete for a little while.

The Chu also have Kou Yoku and Haku Rei who should already be very powerful themselves. Kou Yoku fought on par with Tou years before he reached his current strength (presumably) and Haku Rei also was confident that he was the 3rd best archer in China. If Ka Rin fights Moubu dirtily, then she surely could have Haku Rei snipe him from behind while Moubu and her fought, but I think that similar to the Ka En assassination attempt, Mouten would read this and personally ride out to stop it if it did happen.

Now, taking both of these into consideration along with the Chu's numerical advantage...

I think I've somehow actually talked myself into thinking Ka Rin wins this. The difference between someone like Karin and someone like Gokei, is that Karin will actually utilize the smarter tactics even if they would be considered "less honorable" than Gokei's valiant stand against the Duke. If Karin uses the optimal tactics, then tbh there is no reason that she can't defeat Moubu here...

EDIT: But then again, Mou Ten should also be making the optimal decisions as a strategist...Idk man. This is a really tough one. I want to vote for Moubu though. I think Mouten is the difference maker. If not for him, then Karin wins this one.

 

[RayanOO]

Alright, so let's break this one down in real time:

Tactical Advantage:
This would definitely have to go to the Ka Rin Army, Ka Rin is one of the best tacticians in the series. However, I actually think Mou Ten is getting pretty close to her. He's still beneath her don't get me wrong, but his tactics are absolutely top tier and he is low Great General level in this regard, similar to how current Shin would still be a weaker warrior than Ou Ki but can undoubtedly push Ouki to the limit of his strength. I think Moubu has enough sense to actually move his son from being a simple 5,000 Man Commander, into actually fulfilling a role as an overall strategist for this army. Mou Ten could provide very valuable insight and advice that could help to sway the overall battlefield, if not being the chief strategist for the whole Qin Army. He's capable of that I believe, and this would allow the Qin to at least have somewhat of an answer to Ka Rin's overwhelming tactics.

Martial Advantage:
Clearly the Mou Bu Army, though similar to the above, I don't think the advantage is actually as huge as we might believe. Ka Rin did claim that her strength was equal to Kan Mei, and while I think this is mostly hyperbole, imo it's clear that Ka Rin is extremely powerful as a warrior. Maybe a fight between her and Moubu would look like the fight between Gokei and Duke Hyou, with Duke Hyou being stronger sure, but Gokei could surely compete for a little while.

The Chu also have Kou Yoku and Haku Rei who should already be very powerful themselves. Kou Yoku fought on par with Tou years before he reached his current strength (presumably) and Haku Rei also was confident that he was the 3rd best archer in China. If Ka Rin fights Moubu dirtily, then she surely could have Haku Rei snipe him from behind while Moubu and her fought, but I think that similar to the Ka En assassination attempt, Mouten would read this and personally ride out to stop it if it did happen.

Now, taking both of these into consideration along with the Chu's numerical advantage...

I think I've somehow actually talked myself into thinking Ka Rin wins this. The difference between someone like Karin and someone like Gokei, is that Karin will actually utilize the smarter tactics even if they would be considered "less honorable" than Gokei's valiant stand against the Duke. If Karin uses the optimal tactics, then tbh there is no reason that she can't defeat Moubu here...

EDIT: But then again, Mou Ten should also be making the optimal decisions as a strategist...Idk man. This is a really tough one. I want to vote for Moubu though. I think Mouten is the difference maker. If not for him, then Karin wins this one.

Haha your brain want to vote for Ka Rin but your heart is for MouBu

KaRin has the better army, has the numerical advantage, has better tactics, and except MouBu she doesn't have a huge weakness in martial power.
And KaRin will do anything dirty to win.