Great Generals Tournament, Pools - Round 5

[Lee Ba Shou]

I can tell from past discussions that this will be a hot one lol, @Patryipe come prepared my man!

Rules:
-Some of the Generals featured in this tournament have only hype and no feats, so just vote based on who you think would win based on whatever reasoning you feel!
-You MUST vote in the poll for your vote to count!
-Discussion is of course always welcome but keep it civil. Feel free to try and persuade each other why the General you feel is stronger overall would win.

Round 5 - Pools

Mou Bu

-Moubu has a 100,000 man Qin Army, including his usual commanders/subordinates
-Subordinate Generals/Commanders: Rai Ki, Chou Si, Ken Fu, etc.

VERSUS

Ren Pa

-Renpa has a 100,000 man Zhao Army
-Has his 4 Heavenly Kings as subordinates: Rinko, Genpo, Kaishibou, and Kyou En

Location: Dakan Plains
A large flatland featuring 2 Central hills (Disregard the 3rd hill for fairness sake)

Spoiler

Scenario: War to slay the opposing commander or force them to surrender by any means necessary. Literally any strategy or lack-there-of is allowed. If you think one of the Generals would permanently retreat, count that as a loss for that General.

The Winner of this match proceeds on in Winners, the Loser heads to the losers bracket.

Who Wins and Why?

Spoiler

@Owl Ki @Edward Teach @Shanks @Patryipe @Bullet @Dark Admiral @ShinmenTakezo @Den_Den_Mushi @Guan Yu @Dovahkiin @Greenbeard @DizzyBrows @PuckTheGreat @MarineHQ62 @Dark Admiral @NeutralWatcher

 

[Patryipe]

Renpa. He basically has the best subordinates in the manga.

Renpa has much better subordinates, and he's also a better strategist. He needs to devastate Moubu's army and then gang up on Moubu.

If he's stupid enough to duel Moubu in a 1 v 1 he loses though.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Renpa. He basically has the best subordinates in the manga.

Renpa has much better subordinates, and he's also a better strategist. He needs to devastate Moubu's army and then gang up on Moubu.

If he's stupid enough to duel Moubu in a 1 v 1 he loses though.

Don't forget that Moubu's Army was capable of stalling out Karin's army on the Chu border. Karin who is probably a better strategist than Renpa.

 

[Patryipe]

Don't forget that Moubu's Army was capable of stalling out Karin's army on the Chu border. Karin who is probably a better strategist than Renpa.

Yeah, but Karin is on her own. Renpa can rely on Genpou as well and Moubu doesn't seem to have vassals that can stop Kaishibou or even Kyouen. He's simplify outgunned. And Renpa is one of the very few people who wouldn't get blown away with two swings in a duel...

 

[Blackbeard]

Rinko, Genpo, Kaishibou, and Kyou En

Along with Renpa himself this is literally a full warfare package. Moubu himself would best Renpa in a strength fight but with equal numbers, better generals and vassals for Renpa, and no Shouheikun around to organize a strike for Moubu like he did back against Chu to reach Kanmei, all that would lead to Renpa wining this. though i can see Moubu smashing Rinko to little pieces with his mace if he tries to attack him using Rindou formation like he did against Ouki and in Sanyou.

 

[Bullet]

Renpa wins. He is a far better tactician and general and has better Vassals too with equal number Moubo has no chance.

 

[Shanks]

It's too much one sided and honestly Renpa might take this with low difficulty if he wants to finish early. Lol

Post automatically merged: Jan 19, 2020

Why not add a strategist like MouTen on MouBu's side to make it more interesting

 

[DizzyBrows]

I really wanna give it to Moubu here, but the 4HK are just too stacked. As of now, nobody from Moubu's direct army has special portrayal implying they are even in the same class as the 4HK. It's gonna take a whole lot to actually kill Moubu though.

Renpa wins in the end

 

[Dark Admiral]

Renpa has an overall advantage here with the presence of his 4 Heavenly Kings. We already know Rinko can pierce through any form of defense alone. And we have another power house like Kaishibou who can probably take out few of Moubou’s commanders, Kyou En can also easily take out some of the key players with his 10-bows of China Skill, then we finally have the Strategist Genpo who outsmarted everyone and slaughtered Qin’s army in the most one sided way possible. All of these Veteran level fighter tagging along with the mighty Renpa will simply overwhelm Moubu and his army. Without the dead Heavenly Kings, Moubu will be able to give Renpa a hard time though.

 

[Owl Ki]

@Admiral Lee Hung yeah, the Renpa Army curb stomps the opposition here. Between Renpa and the Four Heavenly Kings along with the fact that both armies are numerically equal then Moubu does not even have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning this.

Renpa far outclasses Moubu as a tactician and he simply has far superior subordinates. Not only that but every single subordinate of his is a superior tactician than Moubu.

As for a duel between Moubu and Renpa, Moubu would probably 1v1 Renpa in an extreme diff fight but that does not matter since Renpa has no problem with teaming up with one of his Heavenly Kings in order to gangbang an opponent. During the Battle of Sanyou, Renpa had planned for himself and Rinko to attack in tandem and breach Mougou’s HQ at the same time to destroy his headquarters and slay Mougou himself.

Either Renpa loves overkill or he respected Mougou more than he let on.

As for subordinate duels, the only individual that Moubu’s subordinates can defeat in a duel is Genpo.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Never commented on this one, so I shall do so now lol.

Tactically: Renpa is at a major advantage here. I won't say Moubu is stupid because I think he's actually pretty decently competent and in some ways is capable of upsetting stronger tacticians, but Renpa and his subordinates are far too much for him here.

Renpa has Genpou, who not only taught Renpa himself tactics but was also stated by Renpa to be capable of leading the entire Zhao military, Renpa has Kyou En who has fought 4 of the 6 GGs of Qin in the past and seemingly wasn't outright defeated by any of them (including Haku Ki), Renpa has Rinko who Renpa claimed was "unstoppable" when he was let loose, and of course Renpa has himself who is also a very strong battlefield strategist while somehow, simultaneously being an Instinctual type when he leads from the front.

Moubu, does not have a single tactician who I'd say can outright match even 1 of these characters, and Renpa has 4 of them in one army.

I think this is a theme that we're going to be seeing with Renpa as the tournament goes forward: His OP ass subordinates are going to carry him a long, long way. This is the same man who Riboku himself said he was incapable of defeating in a straightforward War scenario, though it's unclear or not if Riboku had people like Shunsuiju and Bananji as vassals at the time. Still though, that hype in and of itself proved true as Renpa probably has the best subordinates that we've ever seen in Kingdom overall, outside of some other standouts like Gyou'Un, Tou, Shouheikun, Gekishin, etc.

Martially: Moubu is stronger than anyone Renpa can throw at him, Renpa himself included. Straight up. It's pretty close though, I think Renpa wouldn't get mid diffed by Moubu but high/extreme diff is quite plausible. The problem is that when you're at an overwhelming tactical disadvantage that Moubu is here, a 1v1 arguably isn't even necessary to end this, Renpa would be able to pretty effectively bait Moubu into deathtraps that would at the very least weaken him for Renpa or one of his subordinates to finish him off.

So yeah. Renpa is just too much here. Those damn Heavenly Kings are going to become meme-worthy this tournament, I can feel it lol.