Great Generals Tournament, Winners R2 - Round 1

Who Wins?


  • Total voters
    17

Fleet Admiral Lee Hung

The Pharaoh Sails To Orion
.
#1
Here we go! Now begins the First Round of Winners R2! In this bracket, we'll be putting the Winners from Winners R1 up against each other. The loser of this bout will head to Losers R3, bypassing Losers R2 which will take place after this bracket. The Winner of these bouts proceeds to Winners Semi-Finals. Let's get started!

Also the location and scenario have changed so make sure to take that into consideration before voting!

Rules:
-Some of the Generals featured in this tournament have only hype and no feats, so just vote based on who you think would win based on whatever reasoning you feel!
-You MUST vote in the poll for your vote to count!
-Discussion is of course always welcome but keep it civil. Feel free to try and persuade each other why the General you feel is stronger overall would win.

Round 1 - Winners R2
What a perfect time for these two to face each other lol
Ou Sen

-Has a 160,000 Man Qin Army
-Subordinate Generals: Akou, Makou, Den Ri Mi, Sou Ou, Shi Ryu
-In addition to his 160,000 soldiers of Qin, Ou Sen will also pick up the 5,000 men of the Gyoku Hou Unit, lead by 5,000 Man Commander Ou Hon (and Kanjou)

VERSUS

Ri Boku

-The Goat of Zhao: Riboku a version of the Zhao Army he brought to Shukai Plains, 180,000 including the 40K horsemen that he used against Ou Ki
-Subordinate Generals/Commanders: Ba Nan Ji, Shun Sui Ju, Kaine, Fu Tei, Earl Rai, Earl Kou, etc (NOT Gyou'Un and Chou Garyuu)
-Audible!! As his personal army has been eliminated from the tournament, Hou Ken himself will take his rightful place under Riboku's command:
***JUST HOU KEN, NO SUBORDINATES OR SUBORDINATE COMMANDERS****

Location: Rui Plains (Sanyou Campaign)
Scenario: Ri Boku begins on the Wei Side. Ou Sen begins on the Qin side (Meaning Ou Sen does have access to mountain-fortress terrain).
War to slay the opposing commander or force them to surrender by any means necessary. Literally any strategy or lack-there-of is allowed. If you think one of the Generals would permanently retreat, count that as a loss for that General.

 
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Fleet Admiral Lee Hung

The Pharaoh Sails To Orion
.
#3
Isn't this kinda unfair? It's 166k (Qin) vs 200k (Zhao) and Zhao even has more commanders/generals than Qin. And not to Forget freaking Houken...
If it stays like this then Riboku takes this.
I dropped Riboku’s numbers a bit but y’all put far too much emphasis on army size lol. Duke Hyou effectively overcame Gokei’s army of 90K with only 5K men (after Gokei butchered 90K of the Duke’s men lol). The Duke also hardcore stalled Homei’s Wei coalition army with only 10K men.

And then ofc, the Qin won the coalition war despite literally have 260Kish less men than the Coalition did lol.

I’ll drop Riboku’s numbers this time, but it’s not fair to penalize people like Riboku/Gaku-Ki/Chu Generals numerically when they warrant having bigger armies.

As for Houken, sure his martial might is unmatched but Riboku can’t utilize him the same way other subordinates can be used in war due to Houken’s own limited knowledge + the fact that Houken really only fights when he wants to anyway lol.
 
#4
I dropped Riboku’s numbers a bit but y’all put far too much emphasis on army size lol. Duke Hyou effectively overcame Duke Hyou’s army of 90K with only 5K men (after Gokei butchered 90K of the Duke’s men lol). The Duke also hardcore stalled Homei’s Wei coalition army with only 10K men.

And then ofc, the Qin one the coalition war despite literally have 260Kish less men than the Coalitoon did lol.

I’ll drop Riboku’s numbers this time, but it’s not fair to penalize people like Riboku/Gaku-Ki/Chu Generals numerically when they warrant having bigger armies.

As for Houken, sure his martial might is unmatched but Riboku can’t utilize him the same way other subordinates can be used in war due to Houken’s own limited knowledge + the fact that Houken really only fights when he wants to anyway lol.
Well we saw Riboku vs Ousen in the manga and they were completely even. The only reason why Qin won was due to their mainly right wing winning by getting an awakening and doing the imposible. And how would it have ended if Shin (who is not included in this fight) wouldn't have beat houken?
So i do think a difference in numbers in this fight should not be ignored. And Riboku also has more commanders/generals.
 
#5
Here we go! Now begins the First Round of Winners R2! In this bracket, we'll be putting the Winners from Winners R1 up against each other. The loser of this bout will head to Losers R3, bypassing Losers R2 which will take place after this bracket. The Winner of these bouts proceeds to Winners Semi-Finals. Let's get started!

Also the location and scenario have changed so make sure to take that into consideration before voting!

Rules:
-Some of the Generals featured in this tournament have only hype and no feats, so just vote based on who you think would win based on whatever reasoning you feel!
-You MUST vote in the poll for your vote to count!
-Discussion is of course always welcome but keep it civil. Feel free to try and persuade each other why the General you feel is stronger overall would win.

Round 1 - Winners R2
What a perfect time for these two to face each other lol
Ou Sen

-Has a 160,000 Man Qin Army
-Subordinate Generals: Akou, Makou, Den Ri Mi, Sou Ou, Shi Ryu
-In addition to his 160,000 soldiers of Qin, Ou Sen will also pick up the 6,000 men of the Gyoku Hou Unit, lead by 5,000 Man Commander Ou Hon (and Kanjou)

VERSUS

Ri Boku

-The Goat of Zhao: Riboku a version of the Zhao Army he brought to Shukai Plains, 180,000 including the 40K horsemen that he used against Ou Ki
-Subordinate Generals/Commanders: Ba Nan Ji, Shun Sui Ju, Kaine, Fu Tei, Earl Rai, Earl Kou, etc (NOT Gyou'Un and Chou Garyuu)
-Audible!! As his personal army has been eliminated from the tournament, Hou Ken himself will take his rightful place under Riboku's command:
***JUST HOU KEN, NO SUBORDINATES OR SUBORDINATE COMMANDERS****

Location: Rui Plains (Sanyou Campaign)
Scenario: Ri Boku begins on the Wei Side. Ou Sen begins on the Qin side (Meaning Ou Sen does have access to mountain-fortress terrain).
War to slay the opposing commander or force them to surrender by any means necessary. Literally any strategy or lack-there-of is allowed. If you think one of the Generals would permanently retreat, count that as a loss for that General.

Gyokuhou only has 5000 not 6000
 
#6
Dear Ousen-sama,

It appears that Riboku has a slightest upper hand in this one. We all know that both the Generals are somewhat tied up with ousen being slightly higher (lol).
In this match all the battlefield can be evened out except for the Houken one. Qin has no answer to him. The only reason he lost was due to Kyoukai and Shin being extra ordinary individuals. Ousen has his fair share of great commanders but so does Riboku. I highly doubt that any of Ousen’s commander can slay the opposing commanders quick enough to go and tag against the mighty Houken. All the tactics that the Ousen May play against him will be almost nullified with his sheer strength alone and with Riboku backing him up, it’s just an unstoppable force.
The winner is Riboku with high diff or even extreme with Ou hon still being a wild card.
 
#7
It will extremely tough battle, Qin left would crumble without Makou if Riboku proceeds the same way. But this time, Ousen would trust someone else with Shin job of eliminating Riboku right army commander(most likely SSJ), maybe Ou hon or Shi ryou. Ousen left army will survive if its the former and crumble the very first day if it's the latter.

Since if we proceeds with same as what. happened in this war, Riboku is able to do slay Makou first, rendering Ousen plan in failure, Shiryou won't get her opportunity to slay SSJ and she won't be able to regroup Ousen left army.
But if it's Young Master Ou hon, it will be much easier for him ti take Command even than Mou Ten.

As for Ousen right side, i think Akou can overpower Banaji forces(without Gyou un n Cha Garyuu). And the battle could proceed the same way in the end i.e pincering Riboku central army in few days. Which will allow Ousen to also move his Central forces against Riboku Central Army.

And Akou unlike Dansa, won't allow Banaji to decieve em into attacking Ousen HQ and chase after him so he won't be able to oincer Ousen HQ at any time. While Akakin could lead the charge on Central Army. And if Akou slays Banaji, it just gets many times easier for Ousen left Army.

So the battle will really depends on Houken factor here. Both Earl won't help stop Shi Ryou n Sou Ou(Shi Ryou could slay em), whn both armies cancel out each other strategies since Riboku n Ousen are equal match.

Both Sou Ou n Shi Ryou seems to be quite strong, bt i doubt they can slay Houken. If Akou also joins in the fight, and his martial might is pretty good, the three of em i think can win against Houken. But it is hard to imagine the timing to get right and they will be able to take on Houken at same time, its too convenient.
 
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#9
Mmm, so Riboku has a number advantage, better officers and Houken...

Yeah, he wins...
Riboku doesn’t have better officers IMo, Akaou matched evenly against the Bannaji and Gyou’un for a while. So he should do just fine against Bannaji. Earl brothers aren’t better either. Denrimi is a pretty good answer to the strategist commander like Shun Sui Ju.
Makou was a hyped up fighter too. With SouOu and Shiryu, Ousen has no shortage of top tier commanders. Houken is the only problem here. I can’t come up with strategy to slay him in this battle.
 
#11
Riboku doesn’t have better officers IMo, Akaou matched evenly against the Bannaji and Gyou’un for a while. So he should do just fine against Bannaji. Earl brothers aren’t better either. Denrimi is a pretty good answer to the strategist commander like Shun Sui Ju.
Makou was a hyped up fighter too. With SouOu and Shiryu, Ousen has no shortage of top tier commanders. Houken is the only problem here. I can’t come up with strategy to slay him in this battle.
The Earls were commanding the hybrid army by themselves. Nobody on Qin's side had a clue outside of Ousen. If they are deployed in a field where Ousen isn't there they have the advantage.

Plus the 15k extra man Zhao has are another big bonus. They can be kept as extra defense of Riboku's HQ and deployed as death squad led by Houken whenever necessary, kinda like the HSU v. Kisui on SP day 1.
 
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#12
The Earls were commanding the hybrid army by themselves. Nobody on Qin's side had a clue outside of Ousen. If they are deployed in a field where Ousen isn't there they have the advantage.

Plus the 15k extra man Zhao has are another big bonus. They can be kept as extra defense of Riboku's HQ and deployed as death squad whenever necessary, kinda like the HSU v. Kisui on SP day 1.
Hmm, SouOu and Shiryu are capable of handling them. Since, Ousen-sama will be personally overseeing the battle cause he doesn’t underestimate his opponent they can be cancelled out. 15k difference could amount to very little when we have seen victory against 1:10 odd.
 
#13
Hmm, SouOu and Shiryu are capable of handling them. Since, Ousen-sama will be personally overseeing the battle cause he doesn’t underestimate his opponent they can be cancelled out. 15k difference could amount to very little when we have seen victory against 1:10 odd.
What?

Denrimi was getting his ass kicked, Souoi and Shiryu were sent in and Shiryu found herself surrounded quickly.

Qin was losing until Ousen moved.

Nobody except Ousen can handle them, unless they had a huge number difference (which Qin doesn't have)

And Ousen cannot oversee multiple battledields at once. If the Earls and Riboku are in two different battlefield then he's fucked.
 
#14
What?

Denrimi was getting his ass kicked, Souoi and Shiryu were sent in and Shiryu found herself surrounded quickly.

Qin was losing until Ousen moved.

Nobody except Ousen can handle them, unless they had a huge number difference (which Qin doesn't have)

And Ousen cannot oversee multiple battledields at once. If the Earls and Riboku are in two different battlefield then he's fucked.
That was Riboku. He was the one pulling the strings. Riboku was the one who passed it upon them. In a way it was Riboku who was defeating Ousen’s commanders. Earl brothers were later on almost fodderized by Shiryu.
Ousen has his fortress to oversee the vastness of the battlefield.
 
#15
That was Riboku. He was the one pulling the strings. Riboku was the one who passed it upon them. In a way it was Riboku who was defeating Ousen’s commanders. Earl brothers were later on almost fodderized by Shiryu.
Ousen has his fortress to oversee the vastness of the battlefield.
Reread the manga.

Riboku did nothing.

The Earls and their officers were the ones controlling the army.

They literally spell it out in chapter 602.

Without Ousen tipping the scale in favour of Qin Shiryou couldn't even get past shield troops.
 
#16
Reread the manga.

Riboku did nothing.

The Earls and their officers were the ones controlling the army.

They literally spell it out in chapter 602.

Without Ousen tipping the scale in favour of Qin Shiryou couldn't even get past shield troops.
I’m not saying they acted in his orders. It’s just the fact that Riboku taught them those instinctual type methods after his encounter with Duke Hyou. Ousen even praises Riboku for accomplishing that task. BTw not earls but the soldiers too were acting on their own instincts in accordance to the battlefield.
 
#17
I’m not saying they acted in his orders. It’s just the fact that Riboku taught them those instinctual type methods after his encounter with Duke Hyou. Ousen even praises Riboku for accomplishing that task. BTw not earls but the soldiers too were acting on their own instincts in accordance to the battlefield.
Yes?

So if that happens again and Ousen is not there how do Souou & Co. get past it exactly considering they failed already?

They are not on Ousen's level, so they don't get the benefit of picking up the skill on the fly.
 
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Fleet Admiral Lee Hung

The Pharaoh Sails To Orion
.
#18
That was Riboku. He was the one pulling the strings. Riboku was the one who passed it upon them. In a way it was Riboku who was defeating Ousen’s commanders. Earl brothers were later on almost fodderized by Shiryu.
Ousen has his fortress to oversee the vastness of the battlefield.
It was Riboku who trained the armies how to operate, but it was the Earl’s themselves running the show.

Kinda like Rin Shou Jou and Gyou’Un. RSJ taught the big G tactics, but Gyou’Un is the one bodying tacticians using his instincts.

Imo, the Earls are > Denrimi and Sou Ou.
 
#19
Yes?

So if that happens again and Ousen is not there how do Souou & Co. get past it exactly considering they failed already?

They are not on Ousen's level, so they don't get the benefit of picking up the skill on the fly.
a messenger comes carrying a message- "Ousen-sama our forces are losing against some odd tactics used by Earls."
Ousen-"Hoh.!"
Battles are meant to be fought under the supervision of the General of both sides. Any changes are immediately reported to the HQ.
 
#20
a messenger comes carrying a message- "Ousen-sama our forces are losing against some odd tactics used by Earls."
Ousen-"Hoh.!"
Battles are meant to be fought under the supervision of the General of both sides. Any changes are immediately reported to the HQ.
Are you serious? ROTFL

Ousen had to be on the spot to do what he did. He cannot command an army step by step w/o even seeing it if he's kms away.

Alternative scenario:

Messenger 1: Ousen Sama! Riboku's center army is advancing toward us!
Messenger 2: Ousen Sama! The left wing is getting its ass kicked by the Earls!

Now what? Ousen can't be in two places at the same time.
 
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