Versus Battle HK gauntlet

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#1
The four Heavenly kings of Renpa have to fight some other group of enemies :

All group have 60k soldiers and the same ones.

Heal after each round.

Round 1 : Gyou'un and Chou Ga Ryuu

Round 2 : Kisui, Batei and Ryuu Tou

Round 3 : Bananji, Shun sui ji, Earl Rai and Earl kou.

Round 4 : Akou, Makou, Denrimi, and Sou'Ou.

Round 5 : Tou, Rokuomi, Rin Bou, Dou Kin and Kan Ou.

And last round : the right army generals of the Shukai plains : Gyou'un, Chou Ga Ryuu, Bananji and Gaku Ei.

The HK are the strongest ?

Tags : @Admiral Lee Hung @Dark Admiral @Owl Ki @Blackbeard @Yo Tan Wa @Xione @Shanks @Patryipe @FaradaySloth @Arara @Guan Yu @PuckTheGreat @NeutralWatcher @RiShin @Bullet @Hiragaro
 
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Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#3
So this is a typical gauntlet? Meaning no heals? Or are they healed/armies replenished in between rounds? I’ll assume the latter.

Round 1 : Gyou'un and Chou Ga Ryuu

The Heavenly Kings are already getting pushed to high/extreme diff. Gyou’Un’s Great General level offense will prove unstoppable to every HK bar Kaishibou, and even then, the Raigoku should take care of him. Chou Garyuu’s great tactics and defensive mindset will ensure that he and Gyou’Un wait until the exact perfect moment to strike, and when they do, Heavenly King heads will go flying.

However, I do think the Heavenly Kings will be smart enough to not engage Gyou’Un directly, and will instead try to fight him at a distance/utilize strategic retreats to attempt to trap him. Kyou’En in particular is going to be very dangerous, if Gyou’Un gets baited by him then the big G is going to lose his life very quickly.

So this war is going to be a test of each’s sides ability to bait their enemy into exposing themselves, and then using a lightning fast offense to slay them. The HK will be better at laying the bait due to Genpo/Rinko/Kyou’En, but the RSJ duo will be better at unleashing that offense due to Gyou’Un.

I’ll say the HK win just due to being more versatile.

Round 2 : Kisui, Batei and Ryuu Tou

The Heavenly Kings mid diff. Kisui, Batei, and Ryuutou are really all one trick ponies, and they aren’t that spectacular at what they can do. Kisui is strong at raising the Rigan Army’s Morale, but we’ve seen better morale raisers. Batei is a strong warrior, but we’ve seen stronger. Ryuutou is a tricky strategist, but we’ve seen trickier. Literally nothing these 3 can muster is capable of overwhelming the Heavenly Kings, and they’d be lucky to slay even one of them. Imo.

Round 3 : Bananji, Shun sui ji, Earl Rai and Earl kou.

The Heavenly Kings high/extreme diff. Bananji = Kaishibou as a warrior, and Shunsuiju is one of the aforementioned “trickier strategists” than Ryuutou. Earl Rai and Earl Kou’s tactics should theoretically be unbeatable to the HK tactically, though I’d be interested to see what Genpou would do against them.

Not much else to say here. I feel the HK would win but I’m not quite sure why. I think Earl Rai and Earl Kou are the weak links, Rinko’s Rindou is going to F their army up, I doubt they can counter that tactic, and Kyou En is going to be able to pick them off like flies. Plus Kyou En’s Army is faster than a standard army due to the speed with which he issued commands due to his archery, I’m sure that could play a pretty big factor.

Round 4 : Akou, Makou, Denrimi, and Sou'Ou.

This Heavenly Kings high diff. I think Akou is overall more versatile than anyone here, his fighting ability should be on par with Kaishibou, his offensive formations should only lose out to Rinko, and his defensive formations are very strong but Rinko can break them. Makou might be a slightly weaker version of Akou.

Sou’Ou and Denrimi are probably the weak links here. Denrimi seems to be a strong tactician, but Genpou is stronger. Sou’Ou seems to be a pretty impressive warrior and maybe even an instinctual, but his abilities are still pretty unknown, and he is overall weaker than Denrimi. I see Ousen’s lads giving the HK some trouble but ultimately the HK are going to pull out the win.

Round 5 : Tou, Rokuomi, Rin Bou, Dou Kin and Kan Ou.

Hmm...this one is very tough. Unlike all of the previous matchups, Tou legit has no weakness that can be exploited, he is overall just an extremely strong General who knows where, when, and how to utilize his men. The Heavenly Kings are similar, but it’s tough to say how this one would go. Extreme diff either way?

And last round : the right army generals of the Shukai plains : Gyou'un, Chou Ga Ryuu, Bananji and Gaku Ei.

Gyou’Un and Chou Garyuu alone are already capable of giving the Heavenly Kings an extreme diff fight, add in Bananji alone and the scales get tipped. Another Kaishobou tier warrior who also has some good battle sense and instincts, and that’s about all it takes imo.
 
#4
R1 - HK takes it as Genpo and Rinko can keep CGR in stalemate (if not besting him) while KyouEn and Kaishiboi are too much for GyouUn.

R2 - HK stomps Rigan forces.

R3 - HK takes it but definitely the most interesting match up here would be Genpo vs SSJ.

R4 - Either stalemate or OuSen commanders takes it.

R5 - TOU

R6 - Zhao left should take this but still its going to be very difficult due to KyouEn and Genpo.
 
#5
Here goes,
R1- Gyou’un & Chogaryuu Vs 4HKs
Chogaryuu will be bested by Genpoo or atleast be occupied by his tactics. Chogaryuu is going be an easy deal for Kaishibou and KyouEn while Rinko rains hell on their army.
R2- Kisui, Batei and Ryuu Tou Vs 4Hks
HKs take this one. None of the opposition seems to have an answer to Genpo’s tactics and Batei could stall Kaishibou but will fall to him. Kisui will be outed by Rinko.
R3- Bananji, Shun sui ji, Earl Rai and Earl kou Vs 4Hks
I’ll give the master minds of Earl brothers advantage of doubt. They’ve been under Riboku for longer time and could be a high tier strategist as they’ve displayed in Shukai plains. Shun Sui Ji doesn’t strike me as someone who can take out any of the HKs in duel except for Genpo.
Hmmm, it will be a tough call. Earl brothers can lead their army very well and it will be hard to defeat an army with both Strategic and Instinctual edge. On the other hand, Bannaji can not actually defeat Kaishibou imo. I’ll change my vote rob 4HKs in this one. High diff, due to the leadership quality of Earls.
R4- Akou, Makou, Denrimi, and Sou'Ou Vs 4HKS
Could go any way. Akou and Makaou are a fighting Generals. Akou has a hype of fighting two Top Tiers at once. Whereas Makou was hyped for being more aggressive in the battlefield. Denrimi is only seemingly strategic General here. I highly doubt he can best Genpo with all his experience and same goes for Genpo. Denrimi and SouOu were mirroring Ousen and his tactics without actually being ordered to. They’ve learnt quite few tricks from him.
Either side can emerge victorious depending on who manages to slay an opposing General first.


R5- Ouki Army minus Ouki Vs 4HKS
Ouki army. No explanations needed. Tou and Rokumi are there.


Final round- Left wing Vs 4HKs
Left wing high/ mid diffs. It’s like combining R1 and R2 brutes plus Gaku kei as an extra brain. Gyou’un and Chogaryuu are already capable of giving them quite a fight. Add Bannaji with Gaku Kei, it will be a huge advantage for them. Gaku Kei isn’t much but he is a General too.
 
#6
Against Gyou'un and Chou Ga Ryuu, I'll say the 4 heavenly kings will get the win due to the 4 kings seemly have a better strategist in Gen Bou. However Gyouun may be the strongest in a 1 vs 1 but he is out numbered by 2 key physical fighters in Rinko and Kaishibou who can stall him or force him to retreat to only be snipe by Kyou En.

I like Kisui as a character but the 4 Kings crush his group.

Stalemate because Kaishibou is basically equals with Bannaji and Rinko can probably be stop by SSJ. Umm Gen Bou strategies can be stalenated because they got Ri Bokou own strategies and counters drill into their heads. Which leads to Kyou En being the one that can tip the scale but it will be too close to tell imo.

Another stalemate of being too close to tell...

The 4 kings loses due to Tou being the man with no weaknesses and can probaly pull the win.

Too close to tell, each group can win depending who dies first.
 
#8
I'm going to address the situation with the Zhao matchup.

1. Bananji > Kashibou, they're not equals. Bananji's portrayal is that of being Riboku's strongest fighter, where as Kashibou is in questions against Rinko and never had any better portrayal than him as a fighter. His comparison when it came to martial might didn't just stop at Kashibou, rather it was even compared with Renpa's. Then it was Bananji who's strength was again emphasised as a combatant in the closing of the Shukai Plains. He also had the Akou vs Gyou'un/Bananji matchup, where he didn't show to be any inferior to Gyou'un.


In the chapter 555, where the discussion of slaying the weakest General on the Zhao's left wing was taking place between Shin/Ouhon/Akou/Ten, and such.. there is this panel:

From right to left, weakest to strongest. Some might contend it.. but I simply find it to be too coincidental that all the way up to Gyou'un it was weakest to strongest.. but then it came to Bananji , Hara said "eh just let it be", especially when the chapter had directly to do with taking the weakest out of them. So, I'm pretty certain this was meant to show us who the powerful one out of them was.

Also, add in the fact Bananji is essentially Gyou'un to Riboku. Riboku who is a bigger deal than the general Gyou'un served under. It would make sense that Bananji is superior. Then you add in him being hyped up in martial might right in the closing of the Shukai plains, and not being killed rather being saved for the 2nd Zhao campaign.


Bananji also came to the same conclusion as KoShou in this latest chapter, so he's pretty great as a strategist as well and no joke. Mans simply didn't get the focus like Chougrouyuou & Gyou'un got this arc as they were going up against Shin & Ouhon respectively. Kashibou on the other hand has been just sort of a sheer brute?




2. The key to this match up is whether Riboku's protege can keep up with Genpou in strategy. If he can then, they should be alright. If he can't.. then it's rip. But nothing right now suggests that he can.


3. The Earls & Rinko/Kyouen should cancel each other out roughly, especially with them being personally trained by Riboku himself. Thier martial might is still unknown fully so can't make too big of a judgement on that.




So overall, the issue with this match and pretty much all the other matchups ,outside of the Tou, is:



There's really nobody there who can compete with the GG level person, who could've been in the same position as Shouheikun is right now for Qin.




In the end they stop at Tou.
 
#9
I believe the HK can win every round apart from Ouki's former crew and the Right Wing Army, both were pretty packed. I'll answer more for the latter, Gyouun is one of the best instinctual generals in Kingdom, CGR is the opposite of Gyouun being pretty smart strategically (also can be pretty strong in a 1v1 fight as shown with Shin, half of the HK aren't 1v1 fighters). Bananji is an absolute beast while Gakuei carries some pretty big morale in his pack of troops
 

TheAncientCenturion

I will never forgive Oda
‎‎‎
#10
So this is a typical gauntlet? Meaning no heals? Or are they healed/armies replenished in between rounds? I’ll assume the latter.

Round 1 : Gyou'un and Chou Ga Ryuu

The Heavenly Kings are already getting pushed to high/extreme diff. Gyou’Un’s Great General level offense will prove unstoppable to every HK bar Kaishibou, and even then, the Raigoku should take care of him. Chou Garyuu’s great tactics and defensive mindset will ensure that he and Gyou’Un wait until the exact perfect moment to strike, and when they do, Heavenly King heads will go flying.

However, I do think the Heavenly Kings will be smart enough to not engage Gyou’Un directly, and will instead try to fight him at a distance/utilize strategic retreats to attempt to trap him. Kyou’En in particular is going to be very dangerous, if Gyou’Un gets baited by him then the big G is going to lose his life very quickly.

So this war is going to be a test of each’s sides ability to bait their enemy into exposing themselves, and then using a lightning fast offense to slay them. The HK will be better at laying the bait due to Genpo/Rinko/Kyou’En, but the RSJ duo will be better at unleashing that offense due to Gyou’Un.

I’ll say the HK win just due to being more versatile.

Round 2 : Kisui, Batei and Ryuu Tou

The Heavenly Kings mid diff. Kisui, Batei, and Ryuutou are really all one trick ponies, and they aren’t that spectacular at what they can do. Kisui is strong at raising the Rigan Army’s Morale, but we’ve seen better morale raisers. Batei is a strong warrior, but we’ve seen stronger. Ryuutou is a tricky strategist, but we’ve seen trickier. Literally nothing these 3 can muster is capable of overwhelming the Heavenly Kings, and they’d be lucky to slay even one of them. Imo.

Round 3 : Bananji, Shun sui ji, Earl Rai and Earl kou.

The Heavenly Kings high/extreme diff. Bananji = Kaishibou as a warrior, and Shunsuiju is one of the aforementioned “trickier strategists” than Ryuutou. Earl Rai and Earl Kou’s tactics should theoretically be unbeatable to the HK tactically, though I’d be interested to see what Genpou would do against them.

Not much else to say here. I feel the HK would win but I’m not quite sure why. I think Earl Rai and Earl Kou are the weak links, Rinko’s Rindou is going to F their army up, I doubt they can counter that tactic, and Kyou En is going to be able to pick them off like flies. Plus Kyou En’s Army is faster than a standard army due to the speed with which he issued commands due to his archery, I’m sure that could play a pretty big factor.

Round 4 : Akou, Makou, Denrimi, and Sou'Ou.

This Heavenly Kings high diff. I think Akou is overall more versatile than anyone here, his fighting ability should be on par with Kaishibou, his offensive formations should only lose out to Rinko, and his defensive formations are very strong but Rinko can break them. Makou might be a slightly weaker version of Akou.

Sou’Ou and Denrimi are probably the weak links here. Denrimi seems to be a strong tactician, but Genpou is stronger. Sou’Ou seems to be a pretty impressive warrior and maybe even an instinctual, but his abilities are still pretty unknown, and he is overall weaker than Denrimi. I see Ousen’s lads giving the HK some trouble but ultimately the HK are going to pull out the win.

Round 5 : Tou, Rokuomi, Rin Bou, Dou Kin and Kan Ou.

Hmm...this one is very tough. Unlike all of the previous matchups, Tou legit has no weakness that can be exploited, he is overall just an extremely strong General who knows where, when, and how to utilize his men. The Heavenly Kings are similar, but it’s tough to say how this one would go. Extreme diff either way?

And last round : the right army generals of the Shukai plains : Gyou'un, Chou Ga Ryuu, Bananji and Gaku Ei.

Gyou’Un and Chou Garyuu alone are already capable of giving the Heavenly Kings an extreme diff fight, add in Bananji alone and the scales get tipped. Another Kaishobou tier warrior who also has some good battle sense and instincts, and that’s about all it takes imo.
My thoughts exactly br0.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#11
Do you think the HK can win against the new rising stars : current Shin, MouTen and OuHon. ( with normal armies and no Kyoukai or other commanders)

If they can't win because of Shin : add Karyo Ten to Shin army
 
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Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#13
Do you think the HK can win against the new rising stars : current Shin, MouTen and OuHon. ( with normal armies and no Kyoukai or other commanders)

If they can't win because of Shin : add Karyo Ten to Shin army
Shin Ouhon and Mouten vs the Heavenly Kings:

Long story short, I think they New Qin Gen win extreme diff.

Kind of weird to elaborate on, Mouten, Ouhon and Shin don't really know any high level tactics that I think can counter HK tactics like the Rindo and Genpou's Smoke Screen tactics and such like that, but what the new gen Qin excel at is their decision making skills. Even so far back as the Coalition War, Mouten and Ouhon were able to repel Karin's attack on the Tou Army in conjunction with Tou's Bell Defense. It's the New Qin Gen's decision making skills that would allow them to win this, even if tactics like the Rindo and such are still thinks they wouldn't really have any defense against.

The Heavenly Kings' only chance at stopping Shin and Ouhon in a direct fight is Kaishibou himself, both of them are well beyond Rinko overall at this point as fighters, though I do think both of them are still in heavy danger from Kou En who could easily bait Shin and pick him off before Shin ever has a chance to show his strength.

But yeah, hard to elaborate on this one really. Shin =< Gyou'Un as warriors when they actually fought, so Shin should be just about = to Kaishibou as well. Mouten doesn't have tactics on the level of Genpou but his decision making may as well be just as good, his feat against the Kisui Army was extremely impressive even though it wasn't up-played that much. Ouhon is a blend between the two of them, and I think his overall abilities are above Rinko's right now. So yeah, the Qin win extreme diff?
 

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#15
New match ups for the HK :

Round 8 : the Juuko trio : Man U, Sento Un, and Juko Ou

@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @Dark Admiral @FaradaySloth @Owl Ki @RiShin @Shanks @Blackbeard @Red Admiral etc
It depends on if the Juukou army gets overconfident like they did against the Qin/Wei alliance. If Sento’Un goes charging in headfirst to triple pincers just for the thrill of it, if Man’U Toys with Kaishibou out of curiosity, if Juukou’Ou sits around sipping tea, then the result for the Juukou gang is the same as what we saw against Moubu, Tou, and Houmei.

If the Juukou gang takes their opponents seriously, then they are going to defeat the Heavenly Kings for sure. Man’U by himself should prove unstoppable to Rinko and Kaishibou, so they would need to put him against Kyou En or Genpou to give him trouble. Even then, Sento’Un and Gen’U are still going to prove too much for Kaishibou and Rinko.

Overall the Heavenly Kings just have too many losing matchups that they would need to match up against their opponents in a very specific way to win. The best possible HK matchups for me, are:

Genpou vs Sento’Un
Kyou’En vs Man’U
Rinko vs Juukou’Ou
Kaishibou vs Gen’U

And I could actually see the Heavenly Kings taking this particular matchup. Let Sento’Un charge blindly into Genpou, and I guarantee Genpou will rip him apart. Man’U’s brute power is nullified by Kyou’En’s ranged tactics and his ability to issue extremely quick commands to his men. If Renpa himself can’t stop a determined Rinko, then Juukou’Ou is getting the Tou treatment. And Gen’U is still pretty unknown but the other 3 matchups are already looking favorable.

But again, this only works if the Juukou gang fights like they did when we saw them fight. These guys are former heads of small state militaries and have brutally crushed many famous armies, I highly highly doubt they would be dismantled by the Heavenly Kings even in their worst matchups. I think they will likely pull it together and work the matchups to their advantage and take the W with overall superior strength.

The Juukou 4 take it at about a high diff.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#16
It depends on if the Juukou army gets overconfident like they did against the Qin/Wei alliance. If Sento’Un goes charging in headfirst to triple pincers just for the thrill of it, if Man’U Toys with Kaishibou out of curiosity, if Juukou’Ou sits around sipping tea, then the result for the Juukou gang is the same as what we saw against Moubu, Tou, and Houmei.

If the Juukou gang takes their opponents seriously, then they are going to defeat the Heavenly Kings for sure. Man’U by himself should prove unstoppable to Rinko and Kaishibou, so they would need to put him against Kyou En or Genpou to give him trouble. Even then, Sento’Un and Gen’U are still going to prove too much for Kaishibou and Rinko.

Overall the Heavenly Kings just have too many losing matchups that they would need to match up against their opponents in a very specific way to win. The best possible HK matchups for me, are:

Genpou vs Sento’Un
Kyou’En vs Man’U
Rinko vs Juukou’Ou
Kaishibou vs Gen’U

And I could actually see the Heavenly Kings taking this particular matchup. Let Sento’Un charge blindly into Genpou, and I guarantee Genpou will rip him apart. Man’U’s brute power is nullified by Kyou’En’s ranged tactics and his ability to issue extremely quick commands to his men. If Renpa himself can’t stop a determined Rinko, then Juukou’Ou is getting the Tou treatment. And Gen’U is still pretty unknown but the other 3 matchups are already looking favorable.

But again, this only works if the Juukou gang fights like they did when we saw them fight. These guys are former heads of small state militaries and have brutally crushed many famous armies, I highly highly doubt they would be dismantled by the Heavenly Kings even in their worst matchups. I think they will likely pull it together and work the matchups to their advantage and take the W with overall superior strength.

The Juukou 4 take it at about a high diff.
F… i completely forgot that Gen U guy, I thought of it with a 3 vs 4 in mind, with a 4 vs 4 yeah the Juuko are likely too strong.

Rinko/Kyou En are likely smarter and have more tactics than Man U and Sento Un but those two are really stronger physically. It will be so difficult to put them down

And Man Sento and Gen are not completely stupid either

I have Gen pou a little bit smarter than JuKo Ou but they are not worlds apart either.

The HK are not stomped and are all quite versatile strength/brain but the physical power will likely turn the tide.
 
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Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
#17
F… i completely forgot that Gen U guy, I thought of it with a 3 vs 4, in a 4 vs 4 yeah the Juuko are likely too strong.
Yeah he doesn’t do much but he is actually quite dangerous lol. His tactics were so strong that all three of the Generals Houmei had facing him were being overwhelmed, Gen’U killed one of them almost immediately and was pressuring Houmei’s HQ very hard. If Houmei hadn’t changed tactics, Gen’U by himself could’ve possibly solidified a Chu victory.

Gen’U was probably the only Juukou General who wasn’t completely fucking around and came to Juukou ready to win lol. But he isn’t as flashy as Man’U or SentoUn so it is quite easy to overlook him.
 
#18
New match ups for the HK :

Round 8 : the Juuko trio : Man U, Sento Un, and Juko Ou

@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @Dark Admiral @FaradaySloth @Owl Ki @RiShin @Shanks @Blackbeard @Red Admiral etc
This is tough One. Personally, Man'U is the absolute Physical Beast and I highly doubt anyone from HK will come closer to match him in that. One thing that HK can exploit from Jukko army is their lack of unity which they have. The Heavenly Kings were all together from the get go whereas Team Jukko is just random strong dudes put together. We haven't really seen how well do they fight side by side and the only time we got to see it, they sucked. Everyone fights for their own reasoning and no coordination whatsoever.
We do have stat of them protecting Jukko from countless army but we don't know the might of those army. Those individuals could easily fend off any attacks from a mid-tier General on their own.
I'm leaning towards the 4 Heavenly Kings on this one cause unlike Team Jukko, they will be an absolute nightmare for their foe when they all come together. They were guided by one of the OG Renpa himself and while I do believe HK will have some heavy casualty with some even dying or coming close to death, they will emerge victorious.
 
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