Character Discussion How to genuinely appreciate Sanji without being delusional.

#41
I'm neither a zoro nor sanji super fan but I do enjoy both characters outside of Sanji's dumb ass gags. I find it funny as fuck though how sanji fans have to desperately cling to everything zoro does in order to boost him while a lot of zoro fans can exist just appreciating what their character is doing while not giving a fuck about sanji. That's all the thread is telling yall to do but you're such blind fanboys that you assume everything is agenda fueled so you can never discuss one without bringing up the other. I won't deny there are some ztards and sword swallowers in this community but sanjitards and bootlickers are every bit as bad, if not worse because you all end up looking like little bitches by the end.
Lmao sanji and zoro are literally a dynamic. Representing overarching elements of the story and help shape each arc.

It's almost impossible not too compare the two when oda portrays them in this way.

You lack an understanding of their dynamic. This is why you have these issues and view this in such a way.

2200 2180 is all you ever needed to know anyways.

But don't forget. One was nerfed badly before his fight. Still had an easier time winning.
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So do you want to talk about Sanji or Zoro? It’s okay to disagree with the guidelines but what do you gain from talking about Zoro in a thread to praise Sanji? Zoro is stronger and his feats are better. I won’t say he’s a better character because that’s a preference. But the point is bringing up Zoro makes Sanji look worse.

So why is it a problem to talk about the two separately?
Refer to my most recent comment. You lack an understanding of their dynamic and what they represent.
 
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#42
Fair enough.
But what if I like the Monster Trio dynamic and, therefore, like to hype them as a group?
Does it truly offend you somehow if I praise the "wings of the PK" reference to say Zoro and Sanji will always be the 2nd and 3rd strongest SH's?
I mean, what's the problem if somehow I "glue myself" to zoro's feats in order to hype sanji a little bit?
In the end, I still place Zoro above in power, and the better Sanji looks, the better Zoro does as well by default.
Let us all be free.
:finally:
That’s is fine with me. I think the issue comes in when we compare the feats of Zoro and Sanji or try to tie Sanji to Zoros feats for example:

Zoro beat King so Sanji could because he beat Queen easier.

Sanji is automatically stronger than Yamato if Zoro is stronger than her.

I think it’s pretty clear Luffy>Zoro>Sanji with Zoro being closer to Sanji at the moment. Most of the time we end up arguing the difficulty at which Zoro would be Sanji.

Gluing Zoro to Sanji is ridiculous though they have different goals.
 

Doggo

To find the All Blue!
#44
That’s is fine with me. I think the issue comes in when we compare the feats of Zoro and Sanji or try to tie Sanji to Zoros feats for example:

Zoro beat King so Sanji could because he beat Queen easier.

Sanji is automatically stronger than Yamato if Zoro is stronger than her.

I think it’s pretty clear Luffy>Zoro>Sanji with Zoro being closer to Sanji at the moment. Most of the time we end up arguing the difficulty at which Zoro would be Sanji.

Gluing Zoro to Sanji is ridiculous though they have different goals.
I disagree with the bolded part.
Zoro is, since the beginning, ambiguously close to Luffy or Sanji at different times.
For example, even now in Wano. The Roof Piece makes Zoro closer to Luffy, but the Wings thing and the King/Queen matchups makes Zoro closer to Sanji.
That's a dynamic that has been around forever.
I find it fun, IMO.
 
#45
I disagree with the bolded part.
Zoro is, since the beginning, ambiguously close to Luffy or Sanji at different times.
For example, even now in Wano. The Roof Piece makes Zoro closer to Luffy, but the Wings thing and the King/Queen matchups makes Zoro closer to Sanji.
That's a dynamic that has been around forever.
I find it fun, IMO.
I agree with you though. I just think Gear 5 added a lot of separation between Luffy and Zoro. Eventually Zoro will be closer to Luffy again.
 
#46
Lmao sanji and zoro are literally a dynamic. Representing overarching elements of the story and help shape each arc.

It's almost impossible not too compare the too when oda portrays them in this way.

You lack an understanding of their dynamic. This is why you have these issues and view this in such a way.

2200 2180 is all you ever needed to know anyways.

But don't forget. One was nerfed badly before his fight. Still had an easier time winning.
You can cling to a 15 year old measurement system like doriki if you want to but there is far more nuance to power scaling than some outdated numbers. I'm well aware that oda portrays zoro and sanji closely often and that he often writes their opponents to have similar portrayal but at the end of the day, Zoro and his opponent ALWAYS have better portrayal than sanji and his, even if it's only marginally and when you really dig into their feats in a non biased realistic manner, Zoro generally comes out ahead of Sanji. Don't talk to me about dynamics and narratives, I understand them very well and I've never denied their dynamic.
 

Doggo

To find the All Blue!
#47
I agree with you though. I just think Gear 5 added a lot of separation between Luffy and Zoro. Eventually Zoro will be closer to Luffy again.
Maybe.
Depends on how much room for growth the characters still have.
There's always the "improve your haki" route that can go on indefinitely.
 
#48
You can cling to a 15 year old measurement system like doriki if you want to but there is far more nuance to power scaling than some outdated numbers. I'm well aware that oda portrays zoro and sanji closely often and that he often writes their opponents to have similar portrayal but at the end of the day, Zoro and his opponent ALWAYS have better portrayal than sanji and his, even if it's only marginally and when you really dig into their feats in a non biased realistic manner, Zoro generally comes out ahead of Sanji. Don't talk to me about dynamics and narratives, I understand them very well and I've never denied their dynamic.
Yeah I don’t get how people can read one piece and think Sanji beats Zoro. Just like I don’t get how people can read one piece and think Zoro destroys Sanji.
 
#49
Yeah I don’t get how people can read one piece and think Sanji beats Zoro. Just like I don’t get how people can read one piece and think Zoro destroys Sanji.
I think when people say zoro destroys sanji, it's largely trolling or exaggeration but yeah, putting sanji over zoro is just delusion
 
#50
I agree with you though. I just think Gear 5 added a lot of separation between Luffy and Zoro. Eventually Zoro will be closer to Luffy again.
I used to think that too but I think the gap is just going to widen.

Zoros next PU should be creating a black blade, or a new ability connected to the breathing he heard in alabasta. However, by then Oda will likely give Luffy a new godly PU in order to surpass Teach who’s able to erase Luffys current god tier power up.
 
#51
Maybe.
Depends on how much room for growth the characters still have.
There's always the "improve your haki" route that can go on indefinitely.
So the way I see it Luffy has less room for growth than Zoro and Sanji. All he can do is improve his control over his fruit and master his haki further. He already has an awakened fruit and advanced versions of all three hakis.

Zoro can get 3 black blades, upgraded swords and even better CoO & CoA.

Sanji can learn advanced haki and get some range.
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I used to think that too but I think the gap is just going to widen.

Zoros next PU should be creating a black blade, or a new ability connected to the breathing he heard in alabasta. However, by then Oda will likely give Luffy a new godly PU in order to surpass Teach who’s able to erase Luffys current god tier power up.
You could be right considering what we just saw from shanks.
 
#52
I think when people say zoro destroys sanji, it's largely trolling or exaggeration but yeah, putting sanji over zoro is just delusion
I think for the longest time on this site Zoro mid diffs Sanji was the most popular idea. It’s why people clung so strongly onto Sanji and Jinbe hopefully becoming a power relative duo because many fans of Zoro wanted him to be disconnected from Sanji power wise.
 
#53
I don’t know if Sanji fans are delusional, bitter, or reading Two Piece however, it is very much so possible to appreciate Sanji without sounding delusional. Just don’t make any direct or indirect comparisons to Zoro, Luffy or even Yamato for that matter. Judge him on his own merit which I will do in this thread. Just to be clear I still do not like Sanji but I won’t be biased so let’s begin.

Sanji is a high tier character in the One Piece verse without a Devil Fruit which is impressive. Even if you consider his Germa power ups that is still impressive because Germa Powers are significantly weaker than having a Devil Fruit.

He is one of the strongest YC2 level characters in One Piece and it can be reasonably argued that he can compete with certain YC1 level characters such as King the wildfire. The only other YC2 characters that will rival him are the YC2 of the BB Pirates and Lucky Roo (Ignoring Smoothie because without his gag he’d destroy her to).

In terms of Speed Sanji is one of the fastest characters in One Piece. He is able to move at speeds that Queen a YC2 was unable to perceive (and I’m assuming Queen has some level of CoO).

Sanji proved his strength in being able to launch Queen into Orbit while in his massive full Zoan transformation with IJ. He is also the only character in the show able to use blue fire so far (Marco doesn’t count).

He has a healing factor which is very rare in the series and an exoskeleton able to shatter the sword of a YC2 while off guard. He can also stack his Exoskeleton with CoA.

Sanji has unique CoO able to perceive women from long distances. He was also able to dodge an attack infused with FS from a YC1.

Overall, Sanji is one of the strongest members of the Strawhat Crew and one of the strongest Yonko commanders out there.
I don't need anyone to tell me how do I have to like a character.
Let people fucking live.
 
#54
I think for the longest time on this site Zoro mid diffs Sanji was the most popular idea. It’s why people clung so strongly onto Sanji and Jinbe hopefully becoming a power relative duo because many fans of Zoro wanted him to be disconnected from Sanji power wise.
Also probably true but do you think it’s fair to but that doesn’t mean give Sanji Zoro feats which a lot of people do.
I don't need anyone to tell me how do I have to like a character.
Let people fucking live.
You want to tell me what you disagree with or you just want to rage?
 
#55
I don't need anyone to tell me how do I have to like a character.
Let people fucking live.
Or you can stop being a cry baby beta male and measuring sanji's dick every time zoro is mentioned because you're insecure and instead just appreciate sanji for being sanji... but be my guest if you just want to cry about your inferiority complex
 
#56
You want to tell me what you disagree with or you just want to rage?
Wicky, it's not about agreeing or disagreeing about a post I only read the title and the first two sentences.
It's about you, thinking you are the best and most intelligent person in the world, telling which character people should like and how they should like him, which is an egocentric and dumb way to see things.
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Or you can stop being a cry baby beta male and measuring sanji's dick every time zoro is mentioned because you're insecure and instead just appreciate sanji for being sanji... but be my guest if you just want to cry about your inferiority complex
Of the posts I made, go find one which fits your agenda.
Trashing people you've never read any post from is really a terrible thing to do :smoothy:
 
#57
Also probably true but do you think it’s fair to


You want to tell me what you disagree with or you just want to rage?
Not really. Out of world, Sanji and Zoro are characters who’s rivalry does create a major buzz and selling point in the manga.

In world, they represent two different motivations of strength; Zoros desire to grow stronger to surpass someone above him. Sanjis desire to grow stronger to defend those below him.

It’s why Zoro and Sanji remain similar in strength because as long as Luffy is moving forward Zoro needs to get stronger for his fated rematch which is likely to happen near the end of Luffys journey. Simultaneously, Sanji needs to get stronger because as luffy is moving forward the enemies who want to hurt his family are getting stronger and Sanji needs to be stronger than them.
 
#58
You need to understand. If Sanji and Zoro are portrayed together it means nothing.

If Zoro is paired with Luffy it means a lot. If Zoro or Sanji are paired with other characters like in the movie it means a lot as well.

Just not the 2 together

BTW Sanji and Zoro are still the best
While you are right about this the opposite also happens.
Zoro wake up along with Luffy: gag scene
Sanji fights with zoro : rivals
And all that in one chapter by the very same people.
M3 is a real thing but you know as well as i do that there are trashtalkers in both fan bases
I agree 💯 zoro and sanji are the best thing in one piece and having adults argue against eachother proves that lol.
On another note...
I remember your name from somewhere.
You were a part of onemanga forum, way back around from 2007 - 2011?
 
#59
Wicky, it's not about agreeing or disagreeing about a post I only read the title and the first two sentences.
It's about you, thinking you are the best and most intelligent person in the world, telling which character people should like and how they should like him, which is an egocentric and dumb way to see things.
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Of the posts I made, go find one which fits your agenda.
Trashing people you've never read any post from is really a terrible thing to do :smoothy:
So you read the first two sentences in the title and your conclusion is that I’m egocentric and think I’m the most intelligent person in the world?

Try reading the rest of the post before judging. I’m offering a perspective you don’t have to listen. Most of what I said is common knowledge in the community it’s just a less toxic way to discuss Sanji. The same applies to Zoro.
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I'm neither a zoro nor sanji super fan but I do enjoy both characters outside of Sanji's dumb ass gags. I find it funny as fuck though how sanji fans have to desperately cling to everything zoro does in order to boost him while a lot of zoro fans can exist just appreciating what their character is doing while not giving a fuck about sanji. That's all the thread is telling yall to do but you're such blind fanboys that you assume everything is agenda fueled so you can never discuss one without bringing up the other. I won't deny there are some ztards and sword swallowers in this community but sanjitards and bootlickers are every bit as bad, if not worse because you all end up looking like little bitches by the end.
I don’t know how I missed this comment. But this is literally all I’m trying to say we can discuss one without the other.
 
#60
So you read the first two sentences in the title and your conclusion is that I’m egocentric and think I’m the most intelligent person in the world?

Try reading the rest of the post before judging. I’m offering a perspective you don’t have to listen. Most of what I said is common knowledge in the community it’s just a less toxic way to discuss Sanji. The same applies to Zoro.
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I don’t know how I missed this comment. But this is literally all I’m trying to say we can discuss one without the other.
I never once said a Zoro and Luffy scene is a gag scene. If anything I am trolling. Zoro will always be my 2nd fav and I think he is closer to Luffy as well.

But you are right. Most people are either trolling or simply idiots.

PS
If you see my name in other OP forums like AP, NF... Than it is the OG... The rest using the name of Kishido are fakes.

And yes I started my career on 2007... Before I was known as ThreeSwordsStyle
 
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