Character Discussion "I Am Oden!!"

Do Yamato's words make sense to you

  • Yes

  • No

  • She's crazy


Results are only viewable after voting.

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
β€Ž
#1
Yamato's remark in the latest chapter:


Some people were really put off by the above statement of Yamato's, so I thought I might make the effort to try and explain where Yamato is coming from here, and why I found this scene acceptable β€” maybe even appropriate β€” unlike a couple of her other Oden moments.


Yamato's Aspirations to Oden Executed Poorly
An example of a scene that I think was not appropriate was Yamato's reaction following Luffy asking her to protect Momonosuke.





Yamato declares that Momonosuke was her son, announced herself to him as Oden then proceeding to chase him across Onigashima. I think it was intended to be lighthearted comedy, but I didn't really feel it. I found it to be pretty cringe and tasteless humour.

Yamato isn't actually Oden, and insomuch as she aspires to be him, it's not in the sense of physically becoming him (and hence Momonosuke's parent), but living up to the ideal he embodied.

The above was not that.


Yamato's Aspirations to Oden in 1014
What happened in 1014 was Yamato affirming that she's no longer a prisoner and that she has/will now become Oden:


She was declaring her freedom, and affirming that she was closer to the ideal of Oden she aspires to. She was closer to becoming Oden.

I think it's supposed to contrast Kaido saying that Luffy couldn't become Joy Boy:


An Explanation of Yamato's Aspirations to Oden
Yamato was inspired by Oden's life:


So inspired, that she made his journal her Bible:

She seeks to become Oden:

After Luffy freed her, she declared that today is the day that she becomes Oden:


What Does it Mean, to "Become Oden"?
Becoming Oden has certain connotations for Yamato.

To become Oden means the freedom to explore the open sea, no longer chained to one small island:



To become Oden means that she should fulfil his unfinished will:
  • His will to open Wano's borders:
  • His will to vanquish Kaido:



To become Oden means an unyielding and uncompromising resolve. She should never back down, never give up no matter what:

To become Oden may require to protect Momonosuke, so that he may guide the world to its Dawn:


To become Oden may require her to assist in preparing Wano for Joy Boy's return, or perhaps to protect Momonosuke so that he can do so:

To become Oden means that she should embark on her own grand adventure:



Conclusions
Yamato's scene in 1014 is consistent with what we know of her character, and is kind of thematic.

Because Luffy is more free than her, Yamato tells him that perhaps he's more Oden than her:

For Yamato, Kozuki Oden isn't just β€” or perhaps not at all β€” a person, he's an ideal.

It may be the case that Yamato inheriting Oden's will was (part of) what Oden referred to when he said his soul would live on:



 
Last edited:
#3
Doesn’t matter what she meant, it’s cringe and shallow as fuck to base your identity and aspirations entirely on a single man, going so far as to announce to his actual biological family and loyal friends that you are that person. There is nothing more tasteless than that. Even Weevil, cringe as he is, doesn’t go as far as to say that he is Whitebeard or the living proof of his legacy or anything equally gross. So what if Laido of the 100 hostages doesn’t think Luffy can be Joy Boy? No one cares, not even Luffy. Luffy would never want to become Joy Boy because unlike Yamatrash, he knows who he really is - a boy inspired by Shanks, but who isn’t Shanks and doesn’t aspire to be.

Oda’s Oden wank is truly insufferable. From the lame Kiku β€˜death’ to this retarded β€˜shout β€˜I am Oden from the rooftops’ penis envy that Yamatrash has going on, he needs to lay off and let people experience the characters as independent beings.

Luffy wants to be free. Is he gonna start saying β€˜I am Shanks’ or β€˜I am Roger’ now? Please for the love of all things good and holy, don’t. Just... don’t.
 
#4
I mean, I love Yamato, but this part in the last chapter doesn't really make sense to me.

Someone who does everything in the sense of "That's what Oden would do" can't be free. If every choice Yamato makes is dictated by the life of someone else, then it's not Yamato's choice at all.
It seems like a childish, rebellious phase to me. Instead of doing what Kaido wants him to do, Yamato just does what Oden would want him to do. Or at least what Yamato THINKS Oden would want. Not even acknowledging the fact that Oden wanted to become the Shogun when he returned to Wano.

But that's what I like about Yamato. There is a lot of potential for growth in his character, but if that isn't addressed at all (and still joins the Strawhats) then he might easily drop many spots in my favorites list.
 

TheKnightOfTheSea

𝕷𝖔𝖗𝖉 𝖔𝖋 𝕸𝖔𝖔𝖓'π–˜ π•Ύπ–•π–†π–œπ–“
β€Ž
#6
. Even Weevil, cringe as he is, doesn’t go as far as to say that he is Whitebeard or the living proof of his legacy or anything equally gross.
Weevil at least has the excuse of being manipulated by his mother. Him claiming to be Whitebeard is also rightfully treated as wrong by the story. Yamato pretending to be the father of an 8 year old child who lost his child a couple of months ago is treated as a "ha ha funny moment".

No one cares, not even Luffy. Luffy would never want to become Joy Boy because unlike Yamatrash, he knows who he really is - a boy inspired by Shanks, but who isn’t Shanks and doesn’t aspire to be.
Luffy wants to be free. Is he gonna start saying β€˜I am Shanks’ or β€˜I am Roger’ now? Please for the love of all things good and holy, don’t. Just... don’t.
Preach brother, even if Yamato stanned and cosplayed as a better character, like Shanks, Rayleigh or Xebec, it would still be horrible. I'm happy that the Straw Hats are different from their mentor figures and in some cases, even surpass them. Yamato would probably consciously make the same mistakes as Oden.
 
#8
We all get Yamato's point and admiration, so don't get me wrong, but this is still a quite uninteresting theme that just doesn't work well enough.
Yamato is here for a long while at this point and 7 months were all about babysitting Momo and the Oden wannabe thing got old too fast.
 
#9
Yamato aspiring to be like Oden and taking up the mantle is fine.

Yamato at her best was during her speech when she shielded Momo from Sasaki's squad.

At her worst, when her dedication to Oden is treated more like a gag, is where it becomes annoying and makes her seem straight up delusional, but again those have only been like 3 moments.
 
#11
Yeah... But no, it doesn't make any sense. Oda thought it would be a good idea and that it would be funny. I don't think she is crazy but this idea was plain stupid.
It's not funny and it's embarrassing to hear her say that everytime she gets an opportunity
If Oden inspired her with the life he lived and the book he wrote, fine, no need to run around saying she is Oden and I get the "why" she says that, still not enough to say it
 
#13
Yeah... But no, it doesn't make any sense. Oda thought it would be a good idea and that it would be funny. I don't think she is crazy but this idea was plain stupid.
It's not funny and it's embarrassing to hear her say that everytime she gets an opportunity
If Oden inspired her with the life he lived and the book he wrote, fine, no need to run around saying she is Oden and I get the "why" she says that, still not enough to say it
I'm here just to stare at your avatar tbh dunno why maybe for study purposes
 

Finalbeta

Law Nerd
β€Ž
#15
Yamato is definitely one of the most interesting characters we met in a long time from a psychological perspective.

Definitely a subject up to study I would say. It would be enticing to find out how her personality will be altered by further interactions with the SHs, I think her Oden component will change extensively probably. At least in the form.
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
β€Ž
#18
Doesn’t matter what she meant, it’s cringe and shallow as fuck to base your identity and aspirations entirely on a single man, going so far as to announce to his actual biological family and loyal friends that you are that person. There is nothing more tasteless than that.
But I said exactly that:

Yamato declares that Momonosuke was her son, announced herself to him as Oden then proceeding to chase him across Onigashima. I think it was intended to be lighthearted comedy, but I didn't really feel it. I found it to be pretty cringe and tasteless humour.
This isn't something I defended or tried to excuse. It was bad, and I said as much.


Luffy wants to be free. Is he gonna start saying β€˜I am Shanks’ or β€˜I am Roger’ now? Please for the love of all things good and holy, don’t. Just... don’t.
While Luffy was inspired by Shanks, Luffy's ambition was not to emulate Shanks, to live up to Shanks ideal or anything of the sort.

Luffy wants to surpass Shanks as a pirate; it's a completely different dynamic.

The Roger point is irrelevant as Roger isn't even Luffy's idol. Luffy does not seek to emulate him, does not aspire to him, or otherwise regard him. As far we're aware, Luffy simply doesn't give a damn who or what Roger was.

I don't think their desire for freedom is even comparable either. For Luffy, freedom is some fuzzy abstract notion and not anything concrete. Luffy was already mostly free.

For Yamato, freedom is a concrete state of events:
  • The freedom to leave her prison.
  • The freedom to embark on her own adventure
  • The freedom from Kaido's influence over her life.

"I want to be free" when said by an actual prisoner is very different from "I want to be free" said by someone with no such chains binding their life.


I get that you dislike Yamato aspiring to Oden and I understand that you dislike her. I understand your reasons for disliking trying to emulate someone else. I'm not really trying to challenge that opinion.

I just don't get the feeling that you really engaged with what I was saying?

Your first paragraph was literally criticising something I said was tasteless and bad humour on Oda's part.

Your other criticism regarding Luffy and Shanks isn't appropriate, because their dynamic and circumstances are very different.
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
β€Ž
#20
I mean, I love Yamato, but this part in the last chapter doesn't really make sense to me.

Someone who does everything in the sense of "That's what Oden would do" can't be free. If every choice Yamato makes is dictated by the life of someone else, then it's not Yamato's choice at all.
Yamato's freedom isn't an abstract notion of freedom. Yamato isn't saying "I want to be free" from the perspective of an average citizen. She's saying "I want to be free" from someone who has been imprisoned since childhood by her father. She has both physical and mental shackles that Kaido has placed on her that cage her.

She wants to be free from those shackles.


It seems like a childish, rebellious phase to me. Instead of doing what Kaido wants him to do, Yamato just does what Oden would want him to do. Or at least what Yamato THINKS Oden would want. Not even acknowledging the fact that Oden wanted to become the Shogun when he returned to Wano.
Not really. Yamato makes some choices that have nothing to do with Oden at all:
  • Knocking out Ulti.
  • Her fight with Luffy.
  • Telling Luffy her story.
  • Fighting Ace to stop his rampage on Onigashima.
  • Her decision to break Kaido's dragon statue.
  • Befriending Ace.
  • Making a Vivre Card for Ace.

Yamato doesn't think "what would Oden do". She doesn't try to do what Oden would do in a given situation.

She's trying to fulfil Oden's will out of some sense of gratitude. Now that his vassals are dead, someone needs to carry on his will:


However, "what would Oden do?" is not how she makes the choices of her life.


Yamato would probably consciously make the same mistakes as Oden.
No she wouldn't, see above.


At her worst, when her dedication to Oden is treated more like a gag, is where it becomes annoying and makes her seem straight up delusional, but again those have only been like 3 moments.
I agree with this, I was explaining why I don't think this chapter is one of those bad moments.
 
Top