Character Discussion I'll say it: Did Oda ruin Sanji ?

Did Oda ruin Sanji ?


  • Total voters
    171
#84
So basically sanji learned nothing during timeskip but to run faster away from okamas for 2 years.
All of a sudden, he meets his daddy and he gets these gene power-ups.
Kuma really should have sent him to germa instead.....

The fact that he hasn't become stronger due to TS but because of daddy is very disgusting in terms of character development.
 
#85
People barely understand the Power progression in One Piece.

Zoro got Enma, fought in the rooftop, then took an ultra Elixir to fight King.

Sanji before the exoeskeleton pops up still got impressive feats, specially in WCI and Onigashima, now he is fighting Queen and started Awakening his birthright powers.


Oda is building something special here for Sanji just like Diable Jambe is for example, because Sanji is special among his family, you should not get ahead of yourselves with such dumb takes about development when you dont even tried to understand Sanji's relationship with his family, the things he trully praises the most and everything else its showed in WCI.

Atleast wait until the fight end, then you can take much more solid conclusions
 
#86
I don’t think so. His character was never about training or striving to get stronger, as long as he has the emotions and is a compassionate character who saves others, the new powers don't affect him much as a character. To be honest I think his PU was the best built and the most natural in my opinion among the M3 members. The only problem I see in this is that the germa powers end up undervaluing his training on the Okama Island.
 
#87
Hello everyone,
First i will say that i am a Zoro fan but Sanji used to be one my favourite characters in OP and maybe in anime overall.
I think we all agree that Oda's handling of Sanji was generally bad since the timeskip.
He turned up the pervertiness to 100 and gone were the cool unique moments that he used to have each arc. Sanji also turned into a hypetool for some reason.
In PH Sanji was used to hype Vergo. In Dressrosa he was used to hype Doflamingo.

In Zou Sanji left the crew to save them and Zeff from Big Mom which in my opinion was a great moment and very Sanji like.
Then in WCI we had Sanji vs Luffy which was not cool in my book. Sanj also looked weaker/similar to his family instead of proving his superiority to them and had no 1v1.
And Sanji's arc ended with me feeling that Sanji was ... unfulfilled ?

In Wano we had the raid suit which was unpopular among almost everyone because of one reason: it fundamentally changed Sanji.
Sanji had a solid showing against P1 and Drake and was looking to be back to his best.
Then he was used again in that awful Black Maria plot. Why? To stall Zoro's rooftop? To hype Robin?
In Queen's fight he looked capable and strong but then .. DJ is a product from judge ?
I mean that is his signature move, when you remember Sanji you remember Diable Jambe. Now Oda is here to change it after 500 chapters?
The exoskeleton was expected since WCI and it was set up. That's doesn't make it any better. I know he had to find a way to make Sanji stronger but there were 100 ways to do that. He has Sanji himself admit that he hates becoming that thing.

I for one would have LOVED to have Zoro/Sanji hit a wall and realize they need to get stronger for Luffy. So they swallow it up and train each other in their respective strengths: CoA/CoO. But God forbid Oda have the strawhats train haki, he would rather have them running around being useless like Usopp and Nami in this arc.
Oda could have given Sanji more fights and have him develop his Observation to higher standards which should be his strength as per Oda's words.
Now we are stuck with Franky 2.0 but much worse, because Franky at least develops his powers himself but it is looking like almost every power up Sanji had or will have in the future, is solely down to Judge with no input whatsoever from Sanji.

I really don't know why you would fundamentally change one of your most popular characters and give them a 180° after 1000 chapters where Sanji was that really cool guy to turn him into a pseudo cyborg and i can't understand that decision.

This is not a hate thread, if you enjoy Sanji's new developments then i envy you, it means that you enjoy the story more than i do and that's the most important thing after all. I just wanted to rant a little.
Cook is a shell of his former self now. :brootea:
 
#89
So basically sanji learned nothing during timeskip but to run faster away from okamas for 2 years
This is bullshit, if that makes sense for you, Zoro didn't learned anything at all aside from CoO and CoA, similar to Sanji, cuz everything they showed so far is basically haki proficiency and more Attack Power.


By that logic, the only really relevant post-timeskip training is Luffy's, since he is the only one pushed to his limits against stronger Commander Level opponents, even bringing flashbacks with Rayleigh
Post automatically merged:



If only, Sanji, if only.
When did Sanji used the suit because he felt he was lacking power?

This literally never happened. Everything Sanji did with the suit wasn't aiming at strength growth, but often usefulness at specific situations, and it worked exactly as he pretended to. Saving Momonosuke when no one else could, for now, is the best example
 

ZenZu

The only one who can beat me is me
#90
Atleast DJ makes sense now. That bit didn't make sense to me for years, straight asspull until WCI.

As for your question, Oda already ruined Sanji's character on WCI. Now the least he can do is abuse his genetics to keep him relevant as one of the future PK's top fighters. Last chapter did nothing that WCI already didn't do, in fact it would be an utter waste to make Sanji go through all of that nonsense on WCI and not reap any of the benefits.

This was a power level move by Oda, this is for all those people who say Oda doesn't care for power levels, another example proving he clearly does. He needed a believable reason for Sanji keeping up with the top hitters of the New World, why would a fruitless cook who spends most his time cooking be naturally keeping up with Zoro who only has 1 purpose. As bad as people think this is, I certainly like it more than Sanji's haki and AP being in the realm of other non DF monsters. That takes away from the likes of Zoro, Mihawk, Shanks and especially Garp, for a cook who isn't even the second strongest in his own crew to achieve those things at such a rapid pace, diminishes their accomplishments. Oda could have easily just had him magically keep up with the heavy hitters naturally but he's clearly trying to gatekeep that level without a devil fruit (and it makes sense, you might as well throw a df in the trashbin if the likes of Sanji can achieve such feats at such an early age), from a thematic pov this might look like the wrong choice, Oda chose logical Power levels > story/narrative in this case.
 

ZenZu

The only one who can beat me is me
#92
Except that Sanji shouldn't have Diable Jambe, so this has nothing to do with his DNA modifications, and it is controlled by his emotions, so it can get stronger rather easily by his own
DJ has nothing to do with emotions (in the general sense). That's 100 times lamer than dna modification. He's not the only emotional being in the world of One Piece, so why is it that he's the only one able to manifest flames? What's even the point of the devil fruits, if anyone can just get "emotional" and start creating elements out of their ass.

Man the navy is fucking up, not training their soldiers to make their emotions spit ice and fire out of their asses.

If anything you can argue it stems from his emotions thanks to him being modified in the first place. That's about it.
 
#93
DJ has nothing to do with emotions (in the general sense). That's 100 times lamer than dna modification. He's not the only emotional being in the world of One Piece, so why is it that he's the only one able to manifest flames? What's even the point of the devil fruits, if anyone can just get "emotional" and start creating elements out of their ass.

Man the navy is fucking up, not training their soldiers to make their emotions spit ice and fire out of their asses.

If anything you can argue it stems from his emotions thanks to him being modified in the first place. That's about it.
Are you really trying to make that much sense in OP?

What can i do if the manga itself made clear several times that Sanji's abilities work his emotions, and still didn't correlated that to Germa? Unless you think "Stealth Black" should 100% have fire powers. Im sticking with what we have in the manga until now, you're coming up with headcanons.

:kayneshrug:
 

ZenZu

The only one who can beat me is me
#94
Are you really trying to make that much sense in OP?

What can i do if the manga itself made clear several times that Sanji's abilities work his emotions, and still didn't correlated that to Germa? Unless you think "Stealth Black" should 100% have fire powers. Im sticking with what we have in the manga until now, you're coming up with headcanons.

:kayneshrug:
Lmfao you're not sticking with what we have in the manga, you're actually going against it.

-It's never been confirmed or even hinted that emotions = elemental powers in One Piece. (Sanji shouting anti germa rhetoric to cope isn't confirmation, heck he actually got called an idiot recently because of it)
-It has been confirmed Sanji's genes were modified.

So Ichiji can use light abilities, and Niji can use electricity without the use of devil fruits because of their emotions (that they apparently don't have lmfao)? Or is Niji a mink maybe?

Where are all these other natural human element users in the One Piece world, what a coincidence only Sanji and his family is capable of it. "It must not be from the genetic modifications done to them" If it isn't then Oda truly is braindead, and I'm giving him way too much credit.
 
#95
Lmfao you're not sticking with what we have in the manga, you're actually going against it.

-It's never been confirmed that emotions = elemental powers in One Piece. (Sanji shouting anti germa rhetoric to cope isn't confirmation, heck he actually got called an idiot recently because of it)
-It has been confirmed Sanji's genes were modified.

So Ichiji can use light abilities, and Niji can use electricity without the use of devil fruits because of their emotions (that they apparently don't have lmfao)? Or is Niji a mink maybe?

Where are all these other natural human element users in the One Piece world, what a coincidence only Sanji and his family is capable of it. "It must not be from the genetic modifications done to them"
You're still wrong, there is literally nothing pointing out that Devil Leg exists because of DNA modifications, much less on Sanji, who should have the ability to become invisible, not generate fire at will, much less boost it through anger.

Zoro's Asura should be a genetical modification too, right?
 
#96
The main problem is Oda's writing.
Sanji‘s new ability is not stupid but the way leading to it is the problem.
We got a whole arc dedicated to Sanji and his family. Sanji was different than his siblings and Judge. Sanji‘s fighting style was influenced by Zeff and his passion for cooking. Sanji found his own way and rejected the Vinsmokes but now he’s becoming exactly the opposite. It feels like the whole character development was for nothing.
Oda's writing is weird af
Another example:
I love Kid and I’m glad that he’s fighting against Big Mom but the lead up wasn’t well written. Kid talked the whole arc about Kaido and wanted revenge. And now?
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 ⚛️
#99
Except that Sanji shouldn't have Diable Jambe, so this has nothing to do with his DNA modifications, and it is controlled by his emotions, so it can get stronger rather easily by his own
Any idea how he "obtained" that thing? 🤔

I suppose molecular friction by mach speeds can indeed work out perhaps and Queen was wrong. Though it'd look weird he was.
 

ZenZu

The only one who can beat me is me
You're still wrong, there is literally nothing pointing out that Devil Leg exists because of DNA modifications, much less on Sanji, who should have the ability to become invisible, not generate fire at will, much less boost it through anger.
Sure there is nothing (except everything) pointing at it.

Until someone else is able to create a natural element out of thin air, I'm gonna go ahead and guess the one guy and his siblings who can do it, who happen to be genetically modified, can maybe just maybe do it thanks to their genes.

What you're not getting is that having two abilities (invisibility) doesn't erase the odds, they're still saying Sanji is a modified being able to create an element out of thin air.


Zoro's Asura should be a genetical modification too, right?
No idea. The jury is still out on Asura. If it's CoC related, then it's a latent ability only a few are born with and Zoro manifests it in his unique way.
 
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