Versus Battle Itachi vs Bee

[Bogard]

Since there is a debate about this and that i didn't want to continue off-topic in the other one, decided to make a new thread about this

Conditions :
- Killer Bee is in his war arc version
- Itachi is healthy
- They have manga knowledge of each other

My opinion: I already said it in another thread, but i believe B wins for the following reasons
- 8 blades B is superior to Itachi in close quarter, was literally dominating him on panel and could launch his attacks faster than Itachi could release Amaterasu
- Chakra arms counter amaterasu
- Susanoo defense is also useless because the V2 chakra arms can attack Itachi from the bottom a little bit like Gaara did with his sand
- B also has much more fire power with the whirlwind or continuous bijuudamas
- B also has much more stamina, chakra, advantaging him in case of long terms battles

I believe the only debatable arguments for Itachi is tsukuyomi and totsuka, but i think it's already debatable if totsuka can even pierce through V2 shroud. If the databook saying that totsuka is a variant of kusanagi blade is correct, then it's entirely possible that it couldn't go through the shroud at all considering kusanagi failed at doing this when facing Naruto's chakra defense. But even if it somehow could, i believe while it's attack speed is fast, it's a bit overrated. Everytime it was used in the manga, it was against people who were caught off-guard(Orochimaru was monologuing without paying attention, and there was a smoke blinding Nagato's vision, not to mention even with that, Kabuto implied he could have dodged it if Nagato was more mobile).

I think totsuka's attack speed depends on two things, the Susanoo arm speed and totsuka's maleability to increase in length like Kusanagi and thus it's attack speed shouldn't be any different to Sasuke's or Madara's when using the Susanoo sword attacks, except of the advantage of increasing in length, as well as the hax sealing technique. Kabuto implying Nagato could have dodged totsuka if Nagato was more mobile also suggest that people on Kabuto's level of speed and above shouldn't have any problems dodging it, and B is a fast character, with shunshin that blitzed entire taka once, has V2 that moves even faster and thus i believe, he shouldn't have problems dodging it especially now that he has manga knowledge on it.

And with him being able to do this, the chakra arms would counter Susanoo from underground and ultimately allow him to win. And even if he somehow didn't, he still have the advantage in terms of long term battle due to his much more higher chakra supply

With all that said, i acknowledge that Itachi has a chance to win with tsukuyomi, but imo it's debatable if it can work on a perfect jin or not. Also with manga knowledge, B might have adapted to Itachi's advice of avoiding eye contact with him when he was pressuring him with his 8 blade fighting style. That or B's fighting style was simply too much for Itachi's sharingan to follow

 

[comrade]

The Yata Mirror will block Bijuu Damas. It's ability was described as the ability to change its properties in accordance to the properties of the incoming attack. Let's say Hachibi shoots a ball at the Yata mirror. The Yata mirror would just reflect it. If Hachibi uses a beam, it will probably slide around the shield, with Itachi being protected. I mean, that beam was stopped by a water infused Suigetsu. With Susanoo itself already being an immensely powerful defense and with the Yata Mirror being highlighted above it, I am sure it will have a good defense against the Bijuu Dama.

Totsuka is a spiritual weapon said to be the ultimate attack and with the ultimate sealing technique. We know sealing off Bijuu in some vessel isn't a hard thing to do. In close to mid range, Itachi will dominate by using Susanoo. He could just catch Bee like Madara did with A to enforce eye contact.

As for Gaara grabbing Madara, Madara was outside of Susanoo.

Spoiler

And Gaara said he will have to use the sand under Madara's feet if external attacks won't work.

We also know, the user of Susanoo doesn't need to stay on the ground. He can very well levitate in the middle of Susanoo or even its head.

Spoiler

Not like the arms can bypass Susanoo's defense, only because they come from the ground. As long as Itachi stays in the middle, he is safe.

 

[Finalbeta]

Itachi has better feats and potential imo

 

[Bogard]

The Yata Mirror will block Bijuu Damas. It's ability was described as the ability to change its properties in accordance to the properties of the incoming attack. Let's say Hachibi shoots a ball at the Yata mirror. The Yata mirror would just reflect it. If Hachibi uses a beam, it will probably slide around the shield, with Itachi being protected. I mean, that beam was stopped by a water infused Suigetsu. With Susanoo itself already being an immensely powerful defense and with the Yata Mirror being highlighted above it, I am sure it will have a good defense against the Bijuu Dama.

Well considering Itachi almost died to Kirin with Susanoo and yata available, it obviously has limitations. And kirin isn't as destructive as a bijuudama, let alone a continuous bijuudama

Totsuka is a spiritual weapon said to be the ultimate attack and with the ultimate sealing technique. We know sealing off Bijuu in some vessel isn't a hard thing to do. In close to mid range, Itachi will dominate by using Susanoo. He could just catch Bee like Madara did with A to enforce eye contact.

This was an hyperbole imo. The databook is full of those. It obviously has limitations considering it didn't completely sealed Orochimaru's Yamata no Orochi

I also noticed it takes some time before sealing someone, which gives a small window of opportunity to someone to escape, like in Killer Bee/Hachibi's case who could switch with a limb

As for Gaara grabbing Madara, Madara was outside of Susanoo.

Spoiler

And Gaara said he will have to use the sand under Madara's feet if external attacks won't work.

Actually he was inside. It was just a bad panel perspective

We also know, the user of Susanoo doesn't need to stay on the ground. He can very well levitate in the middle of Susanoo or even its head.

Spoiler

Not like the arms can bypass Susanoo's defense, only because they come from the ground. As long as Itachi stays in the middle, he is safe.

Sasuke just jumped here to reach Danzo at a distance good enough to launch Amaterasu on him, because the inside of Susanoo is hollow. After that he came back to his feet

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I'm torn if I want to jump into another deep Naruto debate lol. It always feels like regressing if I have to flip through that manga to find scans for my argument.

I think Itachi wins and is generally the stronger shinobi. Genjutsu that can still effect him, Tsukuyomi that can control motor functions on top of break his spirit, Amaterasu that's effects shouldn't be underestimated or Susano'o gives Itachi many, many ways to end this fight. Beyond Bijuu Dama, Killer Bee's severely limited. Not that he could crack a V4 Susano'o, but adding Yata Mirror sinks that.

Itachi 7 / 10 - High Difficulty.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

It's been long since i read it, bt wouldn't Itachi just control 8 bee with his sharingan n use it against Killer Bee?
I mean Madadra, Sasuke n Tobi were doing it. Or Itachi needs to unlock a further version?

Nevertheless i find Itachi stronger.

- Susanoo defense is also useless because the V2 chakra arms can attack Itachi from the bottom a little bit like Gaara did with his sand
-

Didn't Gara did it because his sand was much lighter nw due to jutsu that Old Tsuchikage did and since Madadra Susanoo wasn't complete?
Plus he was caught offguard with it, given he was fighting thousands of Shinobi.

 

[Zexion~]

Itachi wins, he's faster more durable and has hax.

 

[Relapse]

Itachi wins this easy. Sauske even put up a good fight, pre-war.

 

[Bogard]

Lol I know Killer Bee is far less popular than Itachi, but at least try with your arguments guys

Itachi wins, he's faster more durable and has hax.

B was already dominating Itachi in cqc with his 8swords fighting style, could physically compete with A in base(who is tougher than Itachi), has v1,v2 defense on top of that, which renders even amaterasu useless, who could also take advantage of Susanoo's underground weakness, and has much more fire power with continuous bijuudama

Itachi wins this easy. Sauske even put up a good fight, pre-war.

Hebi Sasuke who didn't even have MS at the time could counter almost all Itachi's MS techniques except Susanoo and almost killed Itachi with Kirin. On the other hand, Killer B was destroying entire Taka, almost killing Sasuke 2times really fast. There were circumstances behind all that, but Killer B was much more impressive against the same opponent

 

[Finalbeta]

Itachi wins, he's faster more durable and has hax.

Plus his hax can literally one shot his enemy

 

[Bogard]

This Itachi was a walking corpse with lowered speed and reflexes (getting caught by explosive shuriken) who had no intention of winning the fight with Sasuke.

I know, that's why I said "there were circumstances behind all that". Itachi could have easily won that fight with Susanoo if he wanted. Doesn't change the fact however that Hebi Sasuke was strong enough to counter most of his major techniques (tsukiyomi, amaterasu) , overpowered his katon, and almost killed him with kirin

 

[OmegaPsyche]

Sasuke defeated Danzo, after fighting kages.

Is there any doubt Itachi senpai beats Bee, of all people, who is probably below the 4th Raikage.

 

[Bogard]

Sasuke defeated Danzo, after fighting kages.

Is there any doubt Itachi senpai beats Bee, of all people, who is probably below the 4th Raikage.

This is what I mentioned when saying I know Bee is far less popular than Itachi. Guys don't even remember his feats or portrayal. Did you miss the A/Tsunade vs Naruto/B meeting or what? One of the points of it was to show that B is stronger than A. B was also the major force against Obito/Jinchuriki until Naruto mastered Biju mode

In the summit, MS Sasuke was healed by Zetsu after the A fight, otherwise he'd have been killed by Mei, almost got killed by Onoki(saved by Obito), almost died(healed again by Karin) against a Danzo who didn't have koto available and was trying to save his strength to fight Obito. In the summit it wasn't even that clear Sasuke could defeat a Kage fairly in a 1 on 1, and Killer Bee has feats and portrayal above all those kages except maybe Onoki

 

[OmegaPsyche]

This is what I mentioned when saying I know Bee is far less popular than Itachi. Guys don't even remember his feats or portrayal. Did you miss the A/Tsunade vs Naruto/B meeting or what? One of the points of it was to show that B is stronger than A. B was also the major force against Obito/Jinchuriki until Naruto mastered Biju mode

In the summit, MS Sasuke was healed by Zetsu after the A fight, otherwise he'd have been killed by Mei, almost got killed by Onoki(saved by Obito), almost died(healed again by Karin) against a Danzo who didn't have koto available and was trying to save his strength to fight Obito. In th e summit it wasn't even that clear Sasuke could defeat a Kage fairly in a 1 on 1, and Killer Bee has feats and portrayal above all those mages except maybe Onoki

I vaguely remember it. I can see why B is stronger than Raikage, bijuu bomb should beat Raikage.

Thing is Sasuke fought multiple kages, he removed Ay's hand, He barely unlocked his Susanoo during that fight, which is below Itachi's Susanoo, cause no sword of Tatsuka.

I also found Itachi more impressive against Kabuto than Sasuke was.

 

[Zexion~]

Lol I know Killer Bee is far less popular than Itachi, but at least try with your arguments guys
B was already dominating Itachi in cqc with his 8swords fighting style, could physically compete with A in base(who is tougher than Itachi), has v1,v2 defense on top of that, which renders even amaterasu useless, who could also take advantage of Susanoo's underground weakness, and has much more fire power with continuous bijuudama


Hebi Sasuke who didn't even have MS at the time could counter almost all Itachi's MS techniques except Susanoo and almost killed Itachi with Kirin. On the other hand, Killer B was destroying entire Taka, almost killing Sasuke 2times really fast. There were circumstances behind all that, but Killer B was much more impressive against the same opponent

-No he wasn't Itachi never got touched compared to Sasuke, nor would he ever be engaging in a sword battle with Bee, he manuevered around it. He was getting punked by Kisame in CQC and like I stated got caught by Nagato wheras Itachi never did.

-How does V1 and V2 negate Amertarasu when the full transformation couldn't? He's been beaten by amertarasu in canon.

-Underground weakness is BS when Itachi is faster than B and has top tier reactions, BD is the only threat but Susano'o and the fact that its never in the entirity of the series actually hit anyone should suggest that it isn't a problem for Itachi. You only providing a counter for Amertarasu and not Totska or Tsukuyomi is enough here.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Oh boy don't bring Kisame into this or I'm going to feel obligated to defend him from the inevitable slander.

 

[Bogard]

-No he wasn't Itachi never got touched compared to Sasuke, nor would he ever be engaging in a sword battle with Bee, he manuevered around it. He was getting punked by Kisame in CQC and like I stated got caught by Nagato wheras Itachi never did.

Sasuke's speed and cqc skills are comparable to Itachi's, as shown multiple times during their battle and even against Kabuto. This

Spoiler

And this

Spoiler

Was the same. The only difference between both is that Itachi was smart enough to retreat after realizing he was getting outclassed. If he persisted, he'd have ended like this

Spoiler

And unlike Sasuke, Itachi doesn't have raiton to counter Bee's blades. Kisame isn't Itachi. Kisame could overpower Base Gai in close combat, a stronger taijutsu user than Itachi, and even Kisame himself was getting owned by Bee

Spoiler

He was just overabusing Samehada's absorption ability, which grants him the ability to fare better against Bijus than most Akatsuki members, Itachi included(match-up issue) and eventhen, another reaason why he fared that good was because Bee was restricted in going all out to avoid endangering his friends

Spoiler

As for Nagato, Bee got caught because he had no knowledge on the Rinnegan shared vision. Itachi noticed this and took care of it before attacking, so once again a situational situation

You need to be able to analyze battles properly before engaging in debates

-How does V1 and V2 negate Amertarasu when the full transformation couldn't? He's been beaten by amertarasu in canon.

Beaten, lmao. Bee outmaneuvered Amaterasu in canon by using his limb as a sacrifice for substitution jutsu that Sasuke even with the Sharingan failed to notice and that was when Bee lacked knowledge on amaterasu, which isn't the case anymore. And as Hachibi even said later, it wasn't even needed

Spoiler

Bee just used that excuse as an opportunity to escape the village. It's mangafact that Amaterasu is useless to chakra arms

Spoiler

And Bee has full control over V1, V2 chakra arms

-Underground weakness is BS when Itachi is faster than B and has top tier reactions, BD is the only threat but Susano'o and the fact that its never in the entirity of the series actually hit anyone should suggest that it isn't a problem for Itachi. You only providing a counter for Amertarasu and not Totska or Tsukuyomi is enough here.

Itachi being faster than B is your headcanon bullshit. Already posted panels multiple times proving otherwise. Besides, it's also mangafact that Susanoo slows the user down while he is in it, who by the way was once again destroyed by an underground attack

Spoiler

I also already provided counters to totsuka in opening post

i think it's already debatable if totsuka can even pierce through V2 shroud. If the databook saying that totsuka is a variant of kusanagi blade is correct, then it's entirely possible that it couldn't go through the shroud at all considering kusanagi failed at doing this when facing Naruto's chakra defense. But even if it somehow could, i believe while it's attack speed is fast, it's a bit overrated. Everytime it was used in the manga, it was against people who were caught off-guard(Orochimaru was monologuing without paying attention, and there was a smoke blinding Nagato's vision, not to mention even with that, Kabuto implied he could have dodged it if Nagato was more mobile).

I think totsuka's attack speed depends on two things, the Susanoo arm speed and totsuka's maleability to increase in length like Kusanagi and thus it's attack speed shouldn't be any different to Sasuke's or Madara's when using the Susanoo sword attacks, except of the advantage of increasing in length, as well as the hax sealing technique. Kabuto implying Nagato could have dodged totsuka if Nagato was more mobile also suggest that people on Kabuto's level of speed and above shouldn't have any problems dodging it, and B is a fast character, with shunshin that blitzed entire taka once, has V2 that moves even faster and thus i believe, he shouldn't have problems dodging it especially now that he has manga knowledge on it.

So basically:

- The is no proof totsuka can even pierce V2 shroud of a bijuu
- It's dodgeable by Kabuto tier level speed, with B having speed enough to dodge it and Nagato just not mobile enough

Spoiler

And i even just remembered that totsuka being a variant of kusanagi blade was actually mentioned in the manga as well

Spoiler

Tsukuyomi is the only argument i acknowledged myself could work, but even that is debatable since it depends on the range application of the jutsu comparatively to the a universe of a perfect jin

On the other hand, Bee's 8 sword fighting style is above Itachi's in CQC, faster in V1/V2, more durable, much more chakra in case of long battles, with underground chakra arms countering Susanoo, bijuudamas being more destructive, all of that making me believe Bee has more chance to win

 

[Ice devil slayer]

Healthy Itachi wins
High diff

 

[Sentinel]

Healthy Itachi wins
High diff

No, unrestricted Killerbee will totally destroy him with his casual mountain busters.
@Bogard provided enough facts how Bee could deal with Itachi - and even if Itachi is healthy, his MS could change his health very fast if he recklessly spams his MS skills on Bee.

 

[Zexion~]

Sasuke's speed and cqc skills are comparable to Itachi's, as shown multiple times during their battle and even against Kabuto. This

Spoiler

And this

Spoiler

Was the same. The only difference between both is that Itachi was smart enough to retreat after realizing he was getting outclassed. If he persisted, he'd have ended like this

Spoiler

And unlike Sasuke, Itachi doesn't have raiton to counter Bee's blades. Kisame isn't Itachi. Kisame could overpower Base Gai in close combat, a stronger taijutsu user than Itachi, and even Kisame himself was getting owned by Bee

Man I forgot how much you just fabricate the manga sometimes. Those scans you posted literally mean nothing, so Sasuke actually failing against Bee is comparable to Itachi who was able to easily deal with it and then moved back to activate KA? He wasn't retreating because of Bee's pitiful sword play.

Spoiler

He was just overabusing Samehada's absorption ability, which grants him the ability to fare better against Bijus than most Akatsuki members, Itachi included(match-up issue) and eventhen, another reaason why he fared that good was because Bee was restricted in going all out to avoid endangering his friends

Spoiler

You posted a scan of him begging to go into Bijuu mode to defend his ability in CQC??? What is the logic man, I remembered you being somewhat logical at least, Kisame having absorption doesn't change the fact that he was able to react to everything Bee did in CQC with ease until V2 which he still was able to react with Samehada. Itachi having BETTER reactions and being faster should only fare even better.

As for Nagato, Bee got caught because he had no knowledge on the Rinnegan shared vision. Itachi noticed this and took care of it before attacking, so once again a situational situation

You need to be able to analyze battles properly before engaging in debates

I'm well aware of what happened, Bee was outclassed by a controlled Nagato in CQC is what I was getting at....

Beaten, lmao. Bee outmaneuvered Amaterasu in canon by using his limb as a sacrifice for substitution jutsu that Sasuke even with the Sharingan failed to notice and that was when Bee lacked knowledge on amaterasu, which isn't the case anymore. And as Hachibi even said later, it wasn't even needed

Spoiler

Bro what, he used substitution to sneak by a half dead Sasuke using Amaterasu/MS for the first time that wouldn't work in any way in a matchup with Itachi so why are you bringing it up?? I'm well aware Bee was an idiot in using perfect mode against Sasuke but thanks for showcasing that I guess.

Bee just used that excuse as an opportunity to escape the village. It's mangafact that Amaterasu is useless to chakra arms

Spoiler

And Bee has full control over V1, V2 chakra arms

Being struck by Enton =/= fully engulfed by Amaterasu. not to mention Bee has to go perfect form in this battle anyways.

Itachi being faster than B is your headcanon bullshit. Already posted panels multiple times proving otherwise. Besides, it's also mangafact that Susanoo slows the user down while he is in it, who by the way was once again destroyed by an underground attack

Spoiler

What scans have you shown???? You've shown a scan of Itachi perfectly dealing with Bee while trying to activate KA. You stated earlier that Itachi and Sasuke's speed is comparable but this scan completel disproves that statemenet, utilizing Izanami he still reacted faster than Sasuke to save him with Susano'o knowing that it really didn't matter if he took the hit himself as an ET. You're posting my own scans for me.

I also already provided counters to totsuka in opening post


So basically:

- The is no proof totsuka can even pierce V2 shroud of a bijuu
- It's dodgeable by Kabuto tier level speed, with B having speed enough to dodge it and Nagato just not mobile enough

Spoiler

And i even just remembered that totsuka being a variant of kusanagi blade was actually mentioned in the manga as well

Spoiler

Bee's speed is no where near Kabuto's so don't know why you're bringing that up, Kusunagi blade has a physical form while the Totska blade's form is dependent on the user's chakra and potency. Even if for some reason it can't piece the cloak like I said previously he needs to go perfect form to even have a chance at winning this battle, and it'll pierce that fine. Assuming he can tank Amaterasu, Totska,YM and defend from genjutsu continously in V2 Cloak while simultaneously not being able to do anything to Itachi in Susano'o is absurd.

Tsukuyomi is the only argument i acknowledged myself could work, but even that is debatable since it depends on the range application of the jutsu comparatively to the a universe of a perfect jin

On the other hand, Bee's 8 sword fighting style is above Itachi's in CQC, faster in V1/V2, more durable, much more chakra in case of long battles, with underground chakra arms countering Susanoo, bijuudamas being more destructive, all of that making me believe Bee has more chance to win

Him being faster in V1/V2 is debatable but he most certainly isn't fast enough to do any damage here when Itachi has in canon reacted to

-KCM
-DSM Kabuto
-Kirin

All faster than a Lariat from V2 Bee lmaoo. Bee only has destructive power when he's the easiest target so this fight isn't very complicated as well as Itachi's means of victory being 100% more efficient than BD.