Powers & Abilities Kiki Kyūtōryū Ashura is an Advanced CoC technique

Is Zoro the first character to display an Advanced CoC technique ?


  • Total voters
    39
#1
Your reaction right now :
:jinbewat: WHAT WAS THAT ???
:saitahu:What kind of weed is this retarded smoking ? Give me that shit :datas:


First of, I want you to know that I don't smoke anything at all ! :kriwhat:
Now come on come on, let me explain my point before making fun of me :
Here, it looks like Zoro has manifested his anger and frustration through the shape of an Ashura, a power-seeking malevolent being with six arms and three heads.
Many say that it's a demonic spirit coming from his Sandai Kitetsu or that Zoro is himself a demon.
However, the most logical explanation for me is that Zoro used his spiritual concentration and his mental strength to materialize 6 extra members in order to use 9 swords at the same time. But how did he manage to do it ?
Yeah, you get it ! This was an Advanced Conqueror's Haki :finally:


I couldn't find any other translation for this, so my reasoning might be wrong :
  • Here, Rayleigh says that CoC is none other than the manifestation of a user's spirit, which is essentially what Zoro does with "Kiki Kyūtōryū Ashura".
    Kaku points out that Zoro might have created it with his own spirit (CoC is the closest clue to explain this kind of feat as we haven't seen any ability related to a person's spirit yet).
  • Rayleigh also mentions that the individual's CoC can only be strengthened through his personal growth. Well, Zoro has been the embodiment of willpower since his childhood :
    • Against her childhood rival, he lost over 2000 times but each time he was growing stronger with the ambition to beat her one day. Though, he had to face 2 more hardships :
      • the fact that it may have been his physical advantage as a growing man that made him this strong but not his hard training nor the skills he developed, as if all the efforts he did were utterly useless since the beginning.
      • her rival dying before he could beat her, which made Zoro even more doubtful of his progress.
    • Against the actual WSS :
      • in their first encounter, Zoro got completely humiliated. He was shown how far he is from his dream. But, his ambition stay still and he made the promise to never lose again.
      • the second time they met, he had to swallow his pride to ask his greatest rival to train him in order to become stronger for his captain.
    • Whenever he faces despair, he always manages to overcome it (showing great willpower). He also comes up with 2 ways to increase his concentration strength (which is related to his willpower) :
      • Meditation
        • example : in the end of Alabasta Arc after his fight against Daz Bones, he meditates to increase permanently his concentration ability and to be able to use Armament Haki at any time.
      • Incantation
        • he usually says some kind of buddhism incantations before launching particularly powerful attacks. Saying those incantations might help him to focus in performing a difficult technique.
  • If we agree that the following points are valid characteristics for a CoC user (overcoming despair to seek for even more power and resorting to meditation and incantation to burst out immense power), then it proves furthermore that "Kiki Kyūtōryū Ashura" is an advanced CoC technique since those characteristics also fit the buddhistic conception of an Ashura.
    Plus, Rayleigh brings out "Until you have brought it under control, you must avoid overusing it at all costs".
    That totally explains why Zoro didn't used "Kiki Kyūtōryū Ashura" in Thriller Bark nor in post-TS yet : because he hasn't brought it under control (besides being already too strong to need it :wellwell:).


In chapter 1009, Kaido & Big Mom used a combined attack named "Hakai" (覇海) (meaning "conquering the sea"). The first kanji 覇 (ha) in "覇海”(Hakai) is the first one in 覇王色の覇気 (conqueror's haki or supreme king haki) and the word hakai is also a pun, as 破壊(hakai) means destroy.
So we can interpret this attack as a sea of conqueror's haki which ultimately get blocked by Santoryu Zoro without using any technique :jinbewat:
If this interpretation is correct, Zoro must have used conqueror's haki too through his massive barrier haki to be able to contain this pure CoC attack for some time.

Remember the last time Zoro had to face an overwhelming attack meant to finish in one blow ? It was against Kaku's strongest Rankyaku, "Amanedachi", which got turned to mist by one of the 2 attacks ever shown with "Kiki Kyūtōryū Ashura" : it was "Ichibugin".
If Zoro was confident enough to destroy "Hakai", he would have definitely used this technique as it's the most fitting one to deal with an infused CoC attack. Plus, Ashura is also the embodiment of destruction itself in buddhism mythology whereas the word hakai means destroy (so that makes one more parallel).



While I am at it, since the Haki explanation by Hyogoro for the Breath Of All Things moment in Alabasta, I got a feeling that some of his unexplained techniques may be Haki related :
For the fire cut, I find it hard to believe this is just a motif. I really think Zoro impersonates himself as a flying dragon with the will to burn Ryuma (he didn't have salt on him to purify Ryuma's corpse so burning him was the only solution left to take away Brook's shadow).
My explanation is that Zoro's will to burn Ryuma flowed from his soul to his Wado Ichimonji. Then this blade, by cutting Ryuma, left a mark of that will on Ryuma's corpse which resulted in him burning it entirely. I think it's an Advanced Armament Haki, a bit like the Kinemon's Fox Fire style or Okiku's Lingering Snow style (basically some Natural Element Haki).
In this case, either he created an illusion to make his swords look like they were bending or they were actually bending.
For the latter, I would say he used Armament Haki. Not to harden his swords but rather to soften them so that he can create and accelerate the speed of the waves on his swords (just like a whip) to significantly increase his offensive power.
Here, Zoro manages to successfully escape a whole series of light-speed point-blank attacks thrown by Kuma. To achieve such a feat, I guess he unconsciously used Observation Haki.
 
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#6
Here's an interesting theory.

Luffy replaced Level 3 Penetration Haki with CoC.

Zoro replaced Level 2 Ryou Haki with CoC.

So Zoro blasted Kaido with similar Haki to Scabbards, except he added CoC in there. But it wasn't internal penetration CoC.
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 ⚛️
.
#7
It does seem Asura is considerable as CoC by itself until proven differently.

In fact no major spark or any other hint was spot to infer differently.
 
#9
Your reaction right now :
:jinbewat: WHAT WAS THAT ???
:saitahu:What kind of weed is this retarded smoking ? Give me that shit :datas:


First of, I want you to know that I don't smoke anything at all ! :kriwhat:
Now come on come on, let me explain my point before making fun of me :
Here, it looks like Zoro has manifested his anger and frustration through the shape of an Ashura, a power-seeking malevolent being with six arms and three heads.
Many say that it's a demonic spirit coming from his Sandai Kitetsu or that Zoro is himself a demon.
However, the most logical explanation for me is that Zoro used his spiritual concentration and his mental strength to materialize 6 extra members in order to use 9 swords at the same time. But how did he manage to do it ?
Yeah, you get it ! This was an Advanced Conqueror's Haki :finally:


I couldn't find any other translation for this, so my reasoning might be wrong :
  • Here, Rayleigh says that CoC is none other than the manifestation of a user's spirit, which is essentially what Zoro does with "Kiki Kyūtōryū Ashura".
    Kaku points out that Zoro might have created it with his own spirit (CoC is the closest clue to explain this kind of feat as we haven't seen any ability related to a person's spirit yet).
  • Rayleigh also mentions that the individual's CoC can only be strengthened through his personal growth. Well, Zoro has been the embodiment of willpower since his childhood :
    • Against her childhood rival, he lost over 2000 times but each time he was growing stronger with the ambition to beat her one day. Though, he had to face 2 more hardships :
      • the fact that it may have been his physical advantage as a growing man that made him this strong but not his hard training nor the skills he developed, as if all the efforts he did were utterly useless since the beginning.
      • her rival dying before he could beat her, which made Zoro even more doubtful of his progress.
    • Against the actual WSS :
      • in their first encounter, Zoro got completely humiliated. He was shown how far he is from his dream. But, his ambition stay still and he made the promise to never lose again.
      • the second time they met, he had to swallow his pride to ask his greatest rival to train him in order to become stronger for his captain.
    • Whenever he faces despair, he always manages to overcome it (showing great willpower). He also comes up with 2 ways to increase his concentration strength (which is related to his willpower) :
      • Meditation
        • example : in the end of Alabasta Arc after his fight against Daz Bones, he meditates to increase permanently his concentration ability and to be able to use Armament Haki at any time.
      • Incantation
        • he usually says some kind of buddhism incantations before launching particularly powerful attacks. Saying those incantations might help him to focus in performing a difficult technique.
  • If we agree that the following points are valid characteristics for a CoC user (overcoming despair to seek for even more power and resorting to meditation and incantation to burst out immense power), then it proves furthermore that "Kiki Kyūtōryū Ashura" is an advanced CoC technique since those characteristics also fit the buddhistic conception of an Ashura.
    Plus, Rayleigh brings out "Until you have brought it under control, you must avoid overusing it at all costs".
    That totally explains why Zoro didn't used "Kiki Kyūtōryū Ashura" in Thriller Bark nor in post-TS yet : because he hasn't brought it under control (besides being already too strong to need it :wellwell:).


In chapter 1009, Kaido & Big Mom used a combined attack named "Hakai" (覇海) (meaning "conquering the sea"). The first kanji 覇 (ha) in "覇海”(Hakai) is the first one in 覇王色の覇気 (conqueror's haki or supreme king haki) and the word hakai is also a pun, as 破壊(hakai) means destroy.
So we can interpret this attack as a sea of conqueror's haki which ultimately get blocked by Santoryu Zoro without using any technique :jinbewat:
If this interpretation is correct, Zoro must have used conqueror's haki too through his massive barrier haki to be able to contain this pure CoC attack for some time.

Remember the last time Zoro had to face an overwhelming attack meant to finish in one blow ? It was against Kaku's strongest Rankyaku, "Amanedachi", which got turned to mist by one of the 2 attacks ever shown with "Kiki Kyūtōryū Ashura" : it was "Ichibugin".
If Zoro was confident enough to destroy "Hakai", he would have definitely used this technique as it's the most fitting one to deal with an infused CoC attack. Plus, Ashura is also the embodiment of destruction itself in buddhism mythology whereas the word hakai means destroy (so that makes one more parallel).



While I am at it, since the Haki explanation by Hyogoro for the Breath Of All Things moment in Alabasta, I got a feeling that some of his unexplained techniques may be Haki related :
For the fire cut, I find it hard to believe this is just a motif. I really think Zoro impersonates himself as a flying dragon with the will to burn Ryuma (he didn't have salt on him to purify Ryuma's corpse so burning him was the only solution left to take away Brook's shadow).
My explanation is that Zoro's will to burn Ryuma flowed from his soul to his Wado Ichimonji. Then this blade, by cutting Ryuma, left a mark of that will on Ryuma's corpse which resulted in him burning it entirely. I think it's an Advanced Armament Haki, a bit like the Kinemon's Fox Fire style or Okiku's Lingering Snow style (basically some Natural Element Haki).
In this case, either he created an illusion to make his swords look like they were bending or they were actually bending.
For the latter, I would say he used Armament Haki. Not to harden his swords but rather to soften them so that he can create and accelerate the speed of the waves on his swords (just like a whip) to significantly increase his offensive power.
Here, Zoro manages to successfully escape a whole series of light-speed point-blank attacks thrown by Kuma. To achieve such a feat, I guess he unconsciously used Observation Haki.
:cheers:
 
#10
I don’t think that Asura is CoC, I think that Zoro used Asura with CoC, which is slightly different.

This is the first time Zoro’s ever used CoC, the way I read it. The other two times he used Asura he wasn’t using CoC.

It might be the case that Oda is going for a retcon though, the same way Breath of all Things became super CoA on Wano.
 
#11
I don’t think that Asura is CoC, I think that Zoro used Asura with CoC, which is slightly different.

This is the first time Zoro’s ever used CoC, the way I read it. The other two times he used Asura he wasn’t using CoC.

It might be the case that Oda is going for a retcon though, the same way Breath of all Things became super CoA on Wano.
There might be several uses of CoC. So "Internal Destruction" and "Kiki Kyūtōryū Ashura" are both different ways to implement CoC, making them Adv CoC techniques.
 
#12
I think Zoro just now awakened haoshoku haki due to enma. It doesn't make sense for zoro to have had CoC over the timeskip, for mihawk to just not know about it, and for him to have never figured out how to use it the normal way.

Enma is a sword that eats haki. If enma can draw out large amounts of armament haki, who's to say it can't also draw out conqueror's haki? This is the reason why we saw enma in the panel right before zoro went asura.

As for asura, I believe that it is essentially the same thing as killer's sonic scythe; a supernatural power derived from one of zoro's swords, specifically the kitetsu.
 
#18
Looks like Asura, the move itself, is CoC based- the manifestation of his will-, while his attacks are CoA based. It looks like this chapter just served as an explanation for Asura's origin.
You can still damage Kaido with CoA covered swords. Don't forget that. It's just that most guys don't have like 9 arms that all flow together in one very powerful move. The scabbards and other "hardening using" swordsmen just lack the necessary AP.
I'm positive that those overflowing Enma haki attacks could create a similiar result; whereas the focus just lays more on haki amplified power, instead of 9-armed physical strength + hardening.
 
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