Kingdom - Chapter 637: Gyou's Life

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    Votes: 3 25.0%

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    Votes: 7 58.3%

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Yo Tan Wa

Yo Tan Wa

‎
#4
#4
Did anyone also get a feeling those might bw Ousen troops that captured Riboku, just something i felt. Tho not likely,.

So Ousen indeed had another way in for food, i wonder what that is. Also good part on Hara, by making Zhou defend at Yellow River, it was to be expected that they would cut possible ways of Qin food resuplies. Else would make em look incompetent.
 
Dark Admiral

Dark Admiral

‎
#6
#6
I almost voted awful/ poor until the last two panels. This battle has been dragged down for far too much. It’s time to put an end to whole Gyou campaign. I get that it’s one of the most crucial campaign to overtake Zhao but still the battle of wits have been over played at this moment.
Finally, I hope the next chapter will put an end to this food shortage problem cause Shin is about to look like Luffy from WCI (before Sanji giving him food).
 
Lee Ba Shou

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
‎
#7
#7
Yep, this is Shouheikun’s weakness. He’s a top tier strategist but his strategies are so traditional that he can be countered by other conventional strategists.

Hence why this chapter was undeniably Riboku’s victory. Kaioku’s fake food chain being a distraction for the real thing seemed rather obvious, hence Riboku treated the “Yellow River” plan as something “matter of fact” and not just an assumption lol.

But I guess the good thing is that the Yellow River plan has now effectively served as another distraction for whatever the real plan is going to wind up being lol..and this is what is going to makes Ousen’s ultimate victory at Gyou so shocking, his plan was legit something that both Riboku and Shouheikun seem completely blind to, and he’s had the machinations for this plan in mind since even before the entire campaign even started.

Ousen’s future sight makes katakuri’s look non-existent lol. This is what I was expecting from a guy who has rivaled the Qin 6 since their times.

The wait for next the chapter is going to be grueling but I’m officially placing myself on Spoiler Lockdown lol. No way I’m spoiling myself for this glory before the time comes.

A great chapter.
 
Yo Tan Wa

Yo Tan Wa

‎
#8
#8
Admiral Lee Hung said:
Yep, this is Shouheikun’s weakness. He’s a top tier strategist but his strategies are so traditional that he can be countered by
Click to expand...
Yes now that i think about it. I agree, even tho it hypes Ousen good, i find Shou Hei Kun role as a Strategist underwhelming here.

I mean i understand the part n plan Ousen made after reaching Retsubi, since it depended on circumstances in Zhou and the situation at hand, it required Ousen in person there to make it and Shou Hei Kun can't possibly do so while sitting in Qin.

But how come Ousen find a way to deliver food supply while Shou Hei Kun exhausted himself with same for literally months if not year, while they both were in still Qin? Bit undigestible or lacking from Shou Hei Kun.

Either Ousen is more aware of Zhou terrain being personally stationed at Borders as a General for years nw.
Or Second, if he sees to it that the supply reaches him, by fulfilling the conditions at receiving end as well. Sounds more likely to me.

I should maybe see what Ousen plan is before judging it harshly.
 
Lee Ba Shou

Lee Ba Shou

Conqueror of the Stars
‎
#9
#9
Yo Tan Wa said:
Yes now that i think about it. I agree, even tho it hypes Ousen good, i find Shou Hei Kun role as a Strategist underwhelming here.

I mean i understand the part n plan Ousen made after reaching Retsubi, since it depended on circumstances in Zhou and the situation at hand, it required Ousen in person there to make it and Shou Hei Kun can't possibly do so while sitting in Qin.

But how come Ousen find a way to deliver food supply while Shou Hei Kun exhausted himself with same for literally months if not year, while they both were in still Qin? Bit undigestible or lacking from Shou Hei Kun.

Either Ousen is more aware of Zhou terrain being personally stationed at Borders as a General for years nw.
Or Second, if he sees to it that the supply reaches him, by fulfilling the conditions at receiving end as well. Sounds more likely to me.

I should maybe see what Ousen plan is before judging it harshly.
Click to expand...
There are two explanations that I believe redeem Shouheikun here:

1. It probably didn’t take Shouheikun a literal year to come up with the Gyou strategy. It probably just took him a literal year to truly grasp that the Gyou route was his only option. (EDIT: Shouheikun was trying to balance the fact that the Qin spent considerable resources capturing KokuYou Hills, with the fact that an attack from KokuYou Hills was currently being rendered impossible by Riboku’s defense. He was trying to run through countless KokuYou scenarios before reaching the inevitable conclusion that only the Gyou strategy would succeed-a truth he didn’t want to face without exhausting literally every strategy he could try to conceive of first. This is probably why he took so long-he didn’t WANT Gyou to be the Qin’s only option.)

There is a distinct difference between what Shouheikun did and what Ousen did. What Shouheikun did was look at the entire state of Zhao and say “okay, how do I conquer this bitch.” Lol. What ousen did was just look at the city of Gyou by itself and say “now that Shouheikun has formed the grand plan, how do I conquer just this one city?”

So comparing SHK who had to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of an entire state, to Ousen who was honed in on just one city isn’t exactly fair lol.

2. What Shouheikun is doing right now, assuming Ousen’s ultimate strat is the one that will win the day, is essentially just playing a part in order to distract Zhao. If Ousen’s grand strat weren’t in play, then I assume Shouheikun would go about things differently.

Kinda like fujitora in dressrosa. Since Luffy and law were aiming for Doffy, all he does is protect civilians. But had Luffy and law failed/not been in the picture, Fuji presumably would’ve done much more. Lol
 
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Greenbeard

Greenbeard

‎
#10
#10
Shouheikun is bit undermining for me... There were only two ways in which he could attack Zhao...Either through conventional means (Western Zhao Campaign) or by capturing Gyou( Important city which is nearest to Qin).... There is no way he can aim to capture Eastern Zhao directly....

Karin of Chu had knowledge about Retsubi's weakness while Shouheikun had no idea about it....He didn't even had a contingency plan if the supply line between Retsubi and Zhao is not possible....

His supply methodologies would have failed if not for Ousen..... He has been clueless and underwhelming for me this arc....
 
Patryipe

Patryipe

‎
#11
#11
Chapter 495

SHK says that the Western Zhao campaign (Kokuyou) is pointless because of Riboku's fortifications.
https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-495-page-10.html
https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-495-page-11.html

Suggests that it is better to change plan altogether and focus on Gyou
https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-495-page-16.html
https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-495-page-17.html
https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-495-page-19.html



Chapter 496

Time goes by
https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-496-page-2.html
https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-496-page-3.html

We see SHK, Kaioku, Mouki and SBK working on Gyou's plan
https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-496-page-5.html
They are absolutely stuck, the problem is Gyou and specifically that Zhao's is gonna foresee the attack based on the supply line

Kaioku literally says they had plenty of time and after a year of brain storming on how to capture Gyou they are still clueless
https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-496-page-6.html
https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-496-page-7.html
https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-496-page-8.html

Some time goes by again and then they find the solution and call back the trio...
https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-496-page-11.html


So yes, it took SHK a year plus help to come up with the Gyou plan.

Not surprising though. After all even without knowing the details of Retsubi and Gyou it was the location who made the attack desperate. Gyou isn't on the border but on the heart of Zhao and is surrounded by the river and the mountains. Even other states could see that.
https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-513-page-6.html

If you are too slow you are dead.

So SHK plan was all about speed. Bait Zhao into sending their forces towards Kokuyou and then fly past Retsubi and capture Gyou before Zhao can muster a response.

https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-500-page-11.html
https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-500-page-12.html

Too bad that Riboku predicted everything and made an even more elaborate counter. He eliminated the speed factor no once but twice. First he made Gyou impregnable. This made capturing the city requiring weeks of siege, negating any time advantage resulting from the surprise attack. Second he made Retsubi weak, making it almost impossible for Qin to hold it. This allowed him to cut off the real supply lines that were present in SHK's plan and reducing Qin's lifeline.

Ousen's locust plan was about putting speed 1 (Gyou) back on the table, now he needs to put speed 2 (Retsubi i.e. supply line) to get the food.

So if anything SHK was defeated by lack of information. Had he known the details of Retsubi and Gyou he would have figured out his plan wouldn't work. No assurance though that he could replicate the locust plan and whatever Ousen has in store for food.
 
ShinmenTakezo

ShinmenTakezo

‎
#12
#12
Admiral Lee Hung said:
Yep, this is Shouheikun’s weakness. He’s a top tier strategist but his strategies are so traditional that he can be countered by other conventional strategists.

Hence why this chapter was undeniably Riboku’s victory. Kaioku’s fake food chain being a distraction for the real thing seemed rather obvious, hence Riboku treated the “Yellow River” plan as something “matter of fact” and not just an assumption lol.

But I guess the good thing is that the Yellow River plan has now effectively served as another distraction for whatever the real plan is going to wind up being lol..and this is what is going to makes Ousen’s ultimate victory at Gyou so shocking, his plan was legit something that both Riboku and Shouheikun seem completely blind to, and he’s had the machinations for this plan in mind since even before the entire campaign even started.

Ousen’s future sight makes katakuri’s look non-existent lol. This is what I was expecting from a guy who has rivaled the Qin 6 since their times.

The wait for next the chapter is going to be grueling but I’m officially placing myself on Spoiler Lockdown lol. No way I’m spoiling myself for this glory before the time comes.

A great chapter.
Click to expand...
Just stresses how Shin will never deserve the title of Great General
 
Greenbeard

Greenbeard

‎
#14
#14
Western Zhao Campaign was made impossible by Riboku's shrewdness!! He constructed a lot of mid sized cities ( although not impenetrable but capable of putting in decent fight and give Zhao's commanders much needed time to form a strategy..He probably learnt it from Qin's inability to slow down Coalition army)
Another way to swiftly capture Zhao is by going in deep within Zhao...And it's seriously dangerous because of various cities with considerable or great military might....if Zhao's king was bit better both Ousen and Shouheikun wouldn't even have considered attacking Gyou because of the presence of Kantan's huge army.... Remember Kanyou's army reinforced Kankoku pass during coalition army arc....
But his lack of knowledge about Retsubi is appalling...And his lack of alternative plan if Retsubi plan or supply plan fails is also disappointing imo
 
ShinmenTakezo

ShinmenTakezo

‎
#15
#15
Patryipe said:
Nah, you can legimately get the title through martial might alone...

But unless Hara ramps up his instinct 100x he'll never be able to run a campaign on his own, he'll be always be operated by remote control by some strategist.
Click to expand...
Have we seen an actual Great General only with martial might? You can certainly become one with status seeing Mou Gou but it was an empty title for him, Moubu has not been tested by a Great General yet
 
Patryipe

Patryipe

‎
#16
#16
Greenbeard said:
But his lack of knowledge about Retsubi is appalling..
Click to expand...
That's not entirely his fault though. You need a certain degree of military expertise to figure out that Retsubi is a weak city. A normal spy would consider it a normal city.

In fact he still did better than every one else beside Ousen and Riboku. Karin and GHM don't know about Retsubi and Gyou and they seem to think the plan was nonsense anyway...
 
Patryipe

Patryipe

‎
#17
#17
ShinmenTakezo said:
Have we seen an actual Great General only with martial might? You can certainly become one with status seeing Mou Gou but it was an empty title for him, Moubu has not been tested by a Great General yet
Click to expand...
Gaimou.

And Moubu himself isnt exactly a great strategist either.

But yeah, it's more like they can get the title, whether you consider it worthy or not is a different story.
 
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Greenbeard

Greenbeard

‎
#19
#19
Patryipe said:
That's not entirely his fault though. You need a certain degree of military expertise to figure out that Retsubi is a weak city. A normal spy would consider it a normal city.

In fact he still did better than every one else beside Ousen and Riboku. Karin and GHM don't know about Retsubi and Gyou and they seem to think the plan was nonsense anyway...
Click to expand...
Karin knew about the secret of Retsubi!! She was telling about the weakness of Retsubi (or Zhao's capital zone) to Rien( another prime minister of Chu)
 
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