Rules Kingdom General Discussion

[Rumble]

I like Rokuomi a lot. And the guy has a great fighting spirit. It’s his main attribute, the guy never stop, his rage and madness makes him going forever. Love that and quite respectable.

But each time he was more guts than brain in his feats.

ROM is a loud and aggressive personality and that's what makes people underestimate him, even though neither has ever got in the way of the mission.

Though he was actually being humiliated by Sen To'Un, neither rage nor aggression got in his way for being a voice for reason and cooperation with Wei forces. He didn't let his anger bait him into stupidity against Rin Bu Kun even though he had Dou Kin to avenge (and Rin Bou shortly after).

There isn't an instance where ROM hasn't done his job. He has executed in every battle. I don't think there is merit to discounting his ability or dependability based on how he expresses himself. He's not a statesman. He runs hot but he's not a hothead - which is to be expected of a vassal of Ou Ki.

I think you’re underestimating a little bit Kansaro feat.

Yes 6 months and prep time is great and long but he managed to form and trained thousands of soldiers who weren’t exactly seasoned warriors into skilled men and he carried the plan perfectly to push back the Qin army.

I've given credit to Kan Saro (and Ji Aga) for being good leaders because they were chosen for the Roumou offensive, but I think you've got some of the facts mixed up. Roumou had a standing army of its own, known to Kan Saro for their bravery, which makes sense given their proximity to the border and Tai Gen. They trained together in advance of the ambush, but they didn't start from scratch.

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‘It’s also true once the Qin army head was removed those guys were In complete disarray but it’s still a really good feat in my book. And frankly o have my doubt about Rokuomi doing it as good as Kansaro.

It's a good feat, but if you're going to put it forward as this achievement that puts Kan Saro ahead of ROM - who has a LDR 90 stat btw - then I'm obviously going to point to out the circumstances, i.e. context, that feat was achieved in. And, again, it was a shared feat with Ji Aga (and the leaders of the Roumou army). Kan Saro didn't pull it off on his own.

Rokuomi is great. But overall I don’t put him above Kansaro just yet.

ROM has decades of experience fighting at the highest level of warfare under 2 6GGs (probably 3 with Kyou).

I don't think there's an argument for him having to prove he's better than Kan Saro, but people have a habit of underestimating him because he's loud and aggressive. They do the same thing in comparisons to A Kou.

It's not Kan Saro that's being underestimated. It's ROM being outright disrespected in these comparisons.

 

[Owl Ki]

Fighting wise I agree.

But for now I think during the first battle against the 200k Qin guys when Kansaro and Jiaga transformed the army and trained them to drive away the Qin force > what Rokuomi has accomplished as a leader or smart wise

Eh, Rokuomi will probably do some cool stuff once a Han campaign rolls around. He just hasn't had much opportunity to show off.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Fighting wise I agree.

But for now I think during the first battle against the 200k Qin guys when Kansaro and Jiaga transformed the army and trained them to drive away the Qin force > what Rokuomi has accomplished as a leader or smart wise

Hara really is sparse on saying anything definitive on how strong the Seika gang is. Even Shibashou, Hara has basically told us nothing outside of making him a 3GH.

But yeah I can’t take anyone who thinks Kansaro ~ Rokuomi seriously, Kansaro and Jiaga at Roumou was beyond anything Rokuomi can accomplish. Hell the Hi Shin Unit and Gaku Ka had to team up to get through Gakushou’s army, the Hi Shin Unit alone would defeat Rokuomi.

 

[Rumble]

Hell the Hi Shin Unit and Gaku Ka had to team up to get through Gakushou’s army,

You just can't help but shit up any topic that even tangentially involves your favs.

It wasn't just Gaku Shou's army. Jyou Ka Ryuu's army was there.

Their combined armies were bigger than the entirety of the HSU + Gaku and the Zhao armies they were fighting that already outnumbered their combined 25K.

They failed to contain the HSU and Gaku Ka and the Seika commanders were all unhorsed and injured for their efforts.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

You just can't help but shit up any topic that even tangentially involves your favs.

It wasn't just Gaku Shou's army. Jyou Ka Ryuu's army was there.

Their combined armies was bigger than the entirety of the HSU + Gaku and the Zhao armies they were fighting that already outnumbered their combined 25K.

They failed to contain the HSU and Gaku Ka and the Seika commanders were all unhorsed and injured for their efforts.

Does Jyoukaryuu even have an army? I thought he was just a warrior subordinate of Shibashou lol. Dude doesn’t even know tactics.

 

[Owl Ki]

Does Jyoukaryuu even have an army? I thought he was just a warrior subordinate of Shibashou lol. Dude doesn’t even know tactics.

Nah, he definitely had an army. He was a full on General with some minor named subordinates and his troops were noted to apparently be stronger on average than those of the Gakushou Army if I recall correctly.

Sure he claimed to not know tactics but he can certainly lead men. Ranbihaku doesn't even have a mind and that guy is still a General. Lol.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

 

[Rumble]

Does Jyoukaryuu even have an army? I thought he was just a warrior subordinate of Shibashou lol. Dude doesn’t even know tactics.

Yes he was a full-fledged general with an army of his own.

He was clearly playing along with Gaku Shou, whose question on what the "most humiliating" response to a drill formation would be was subjective in nature, as there is no such thing as an objectively true answer.

The mass on the left are Hi Shin Unit (15K), Gaku Ka Army (10K) and the Zhao forces who they were already engaging while outnumbered,

The mass on the right is the combined army of Gaku Shou and JKR alone. It dwarfed all three forces in size and they were fresh.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Nah, he definitely had an army. He was a full on General with some minor named subordinates and his troops were noted to apparently be stronger on average than those of the Gakushou Army if I recall correctly.

Sure he claimed to not know tactics but he can certainly lead men. Ranbihaku doesn't even have a mind and that guy is still a General. Lol.

Lol. I remember he had two subordinates. Is this the only reference to him actually having an army? I literally thought he was a “general” under Gakushou lmfao. I didn’t remember any references to him having an army.

 

[Rumble]

Lol. I remember he had two subordinates. Is this the only reference to him actually having an army? I literally thought he was a “general” under Gakushou lmfao. I didn’t remember any references to him having an army.

Ch 718 introduced them on the battlefield with the same title boxes.

We didn't know Gaku Shou was Seika's second general until the next chapter.

In 790, we saw Shi Ba Shou and his four general deliberate admitting Ri Boku to the city. Fuu On wasn't there and nothing JKR said or did indicated him being subordinate to anyone but SBS.

Considering he had his own second in command and two lieutenants, idk why anyone would think he wasn't a general of Seika with his own army.

 

[RayanOO]

Eh, Rokuomi will probably do some cool stuff once a Han campaign rolls around. He just hasn't had much opportunity to show off.

Maybe and even likely

But for now LDR wise and INT wise I put Kansaro above Rokuomi

Kansaro is the right hand of a 3GH

And, again, it was a shared feat with Ji Aga (and the leaders of the Roumou army). Kan Saro didn't pull it off on his own.

I don’t really agree with the shared feat thing

Kansaro was the commander in chief of the operation. He was the head. It’s normal that the feat belongs to him even if obviously he didn’t do everything by himself. It’s like that in every campaign.

And we do know now that Jiaga even if he is not Zenou or RBH kind of crazy/stupid, he is not the brightest lamp of the corner.

‘I think it’s unfair to dismiss Kansaro main role here.

I don’t think we would have done that for other main commanders.

ROM is a loud and aggressive personality and that's what makes people underestimate him, even though neither has ever got in the way of the mission.

Though he was actually being humiliated by Sen To'Un, neither rage nor aggression got in his way for being a voice for reason and cooperation with Wei forces. He didn't let his anger bait him into stupidity against Rin Bu Kun even though he had Dou Kin to avenge (and Rin Bou shortly after).

There isn't an instance where ROM hasn't done his job. He has executed in every battle. I don't think there is merit to discounting his ability or dependability based on how he expresses himself. He's not a statesman. He runs hot but he's not a hothead - which is to be expected of a vassal of Ou Ki.

Maybe I didn’t make myself clear : I don’t underestimate Rokuomi because he is loud and brash. I indeed think it’s one of it’s best quality : the guy is rent less, he faced death numerous times, put himself in impossible situations, and still kept going. The lad even died a couple of times lol.

Rokuomi is a great commander.

And being below Kansaro in some stats or areas is no shame at all and doesn’t take any credits to Rokuomi.

I've given credit to Kan Saro (and Ji Aga) for being good leaders because they were chosen for the Roumou offensive, but I think you've got some of the facts mixed up. Roumou had a standing army of its own, known to Kan Saro for their bravery, which makes sense given their proximity to the border and Tai Gen. They trained together in advance of the ambush, but they didn't start from scratch.

You’re right maybe the Roumou army wasn’t totally powerless but if I remember correctly in chapter 710 (can’t post the pic) :
- the Qin commander said the Roumou army barely set foot outside of his city and isn’t really experienced (he is maybe misinformed and he is himself kinda stupid)
- Kansaro said that they have been training for the 6 last months and called reinforcements, and that the skills and the morale of his troops is far far higher than the Qin ones. Kansaro even said that the soldiers had been training fiercely.

So Kansaro being their commander and managing to gather everyone, help training them, help making Seika soldiers and Roumpu working together well, and having them at their best morale is a great feat for him. As a leader and as a commander

 

[Owl Ki]

Lol. I remember he had two subordinates. Is this the only reference to him actually having an army? I literally thought he was a “general” under Gakushou lmfao. I didn’t remember any references to him having an army.

Any deference he showed to Gakushou was likely out of respect for the latter's tactical ability. Lol. Gakushou is considered the best General under Shibashou after Kansaro after all.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Ch 718 introduced them on the battlefield with the same title boxes.

We didn't know Gaku Shou was Seika's second general until the next chapter.

In 790, we saw Shi Ba Shou and his four general deliberate admitting Ri Boku to the city. Fuu On wasn't there and nothing JKR said or did indicated him being subordinate to anyone but SBS.

Considering he had his own second in command and two lieutenants, idk why anyone would think he wasn't a general of Seika with his own army.

I haven’t read 790 yet lol. I mean yeah I read spoilers but that’s not reading the chapter.

Any deference he showed to Gakushou was likely out of respect for the latter's tactical ability. Lol. Gakushou is considered the best General under Shibashou after Kansaro after all.

Well, it’s like you said. Being a General doesn’t mean you have any tactical knowledge. Gaimou is a good example, the dude doesn’t have a tactical bone in his body but he made it up to the rank of GG.

But it’s fine, I just didn’t remember Jyoukaryuu even having an army of his own lol. Given that it seems to have only been mentioned once and not really emphasized lol.

 

[Rumble]

I don’t really agree with the shared feat thing

Kansaro was the commander in chief of the operation. He was the head. It’s normal that the feat belongs to him even if obviously he didn’t do everything by himself. It’s like that in every campaign.

‘I think it’s unfair to dismiss Kansaro main role here.

I don’t think we would have done that for other main commanders.

It's not unfair to correctly point out the context and circumstances.

You present the ambush as something repeatable for him by his own ability. There is nothing to suggest he could.

Kan Saro was the senior officer in a joint operation of Seika and Roumou executing on Ri Boku's plan.

And we do know now that Jiaga even if he is not Zenou or RBH kind of crazy/stupid, he is not the brightest lamp of the corner.

Intelligence is a spectrum. As far as warfare and generalship are concerned, you can assume Ji Aga was capable enough or he wouldn't have been made a general. Seika doesn't have those kind of resources to waste. His elites were at least on par with the Sou'Ou Army's despite being at a numerical advantage, that’s not by accident.

Maybe I didn’t make myself clear : I don’t underestimate Rokuomi because he is loud and brash. I indeed think it’s one of it’s best quality : the guy is rent less, he faced death numerous times, put himself in impossible situations, and still kept going. The lad even died a couple of times lol.

Rokuomi is a great commander.

And being below Kansaro in some stats or areas is no shame at all and doesn’t take any credits to Rokuomi.

How do you reconcile not underestimating Roku O Mi with you disregarding his vast experience and characterising him as having "more guts than brains" as if he's some kind of loose canon when the facts support the opposite conclusion?

Neither Ou Ki nor Tou would tolerate a general - never mind First General - that a) doesn't know his stuff, and b) doesn't have the right temperament for the job.

You’re right maybe the Roumou army wasn’t totally powerless but if I remember correctly in chapter 710 (can’t post the pic) :
- the Qin commander said the Roumou army barely set foot outside of his city and isn’t really experienced (he is maybe misinformed and he is himself kinda stupid)

As stated, Roumou was a border castle under the rule of a lord recognised for wisdom and an army with a reputation for bravery. They weren't close to the ragtag bunch you seem to think they were.

I've revisited 704, 709 and 710 and can't find what you're referring to in terms of experience. All that was said is that their army was bolstered by Seika.

- Kansaro said that they have been training for the 6 last months and called reinforcements, and that the skills and the morale of his troops is far far higher than the Qin ones. Kansaro even said that the soldiers had been training fiercely.

They were being thorough in their preparations.

Of course that would translate into higher morale. The whole nation of Zhao had a morale boost because of Kan Ki's actions before they even got started.

So Kansaro being their commander and managing to gather everyone, help training them, help making Seika soldiers and Roumpu working together well, and having them at their best morale is a great feat for him. As a leader and as a commander

Kan Saro was, again, executing on Ri Boku's designs, and he didn't start with raw materials. The Roumou armies were bolstered and they trained alongside Seika elites for 6 months in preparation.

This wasn't a case of Kan Saro leading the Kan Saro Army to doing great things. This was Kan Saro, along with Ji Aga, a general in his own right, and the leadership of Roumou coming together to execute a plan designed by Ri Boku in the wake of a horrific slaughter that outraged the entire nation.

This context is crucial and not unfair to Kan Saro to consider or point out.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

I see Jyoukaryuu and Ji Aga as Moubu Lite essentially.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

I see Jyoukaryuu and Ji Aga as Moubu Lite essentially.

i don't see it.

Moubu is capable of executing high level tactics and has astounding leadership and moral rising abilities.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

i don't see it.

Moubu is capable of executing high level tactics and has astounding leadership and moral rising abilities.

I meant in terms of their style.

Moubu is everything they are multiplied 1000x, obviously.

 

[Owl Ki]

I caught up again, I let around 10 chapters accumulate before reading them and I'm starting to wonder something...

Does the Seika Gang come off as a little... Soft? Is that the right word?

Like Jiaga asked Kansaro about if Shibashou could die, even stating that he went into battle under the assumption that he couldn't. Jiaga even claims that he was holding back against Shiryou.

Then there is Shiba's aide talking about how they could all probably talk things over some tea. The Seika Army seems quite openly sentimental. Not to say that the rest of the Kingdom cast is filled with naught but heartless sods but they seem better at dealing with brutal battlefield reality.

It is like they ain't got the same killer instinct that other armies have. Maybe after being warriors with nothing before Seika, they got tired of fighting and now after coming back after years of sitting around they lost their edge? Maybe they are pacifists at heart?

I don't know. Lol. Any thoughts folk?
@TheKnightOfTheSea @Lee Ba Shou @RayanOO @God Buggy @FutureWarrior123

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

I caught up again, I let around 10 chapters accumulate before reading them and I'm starting to wonder something...

Does the Seika Gang come off as a little... Soft? Is that the right word?

Like Jiaga asked Kansaro about if Shibashou could die, even stating that he went into battle under the assumption that he couldn't. Jiaga even claims that he was holding back against Shiryou.

Then there is Shiba's aide talking about how they could all probably talk things over some tea. The Seika Army seems quite openly sentimental. Not to say that the rest of the Kingdom cast is filled with naught but heartless sods but they seem better at dealing with brutal battlefield reality.

It is like they ain't got the same killer instinct that other armies have. Maybe after being warriors with nothing before Seika, they got tired of fighting and now after coming back after years of sitting around they lost their edge? Maybe they are pacifists at heart?

I don't know. Lol. Any thoughts folk?
@TheKnightOfTheSea @Lee Ba Shou @RayanOO @God Buggy @FutureWarrior123

Yep, they basically strike me as the “strong but with a lot of heart” archetype. IMO this is Hara subtly hinting that the Qin are in fact the Warmongers here as they were historically.

But I thought the same thing. Idk if there’s a word for this trope in fiction but they are essentially good guy strong men lol. Akin to like Hank Schraeder from Breaking Bad, just a ton of heart lol.

 

[God Buggy]

I liked him, poor guy🥲

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