Rules Kingdom General Discussion

Fleet Admiral Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
What are your guys expectations for Kouyoku? Him and Kouen could be related and he is also a talented youngster like the Qin trio. Could be one of the final boss fights in Chu if he lacks any historical information so Hara could write him freely like he does with Shin.

Karin is also fictional only from what I have read, Hara has plenty of free room to write her as the big boss of the Chu invasions.
He’s definitely going to be Ouhon’s Chu opponent. The Chu campaign will have all of the Qin 6 attacking Chu at once, and Yoku being Kou En’s son with Ouhon being Ousen’s “son” is enough of a parallel for them to face each other.

Plus Ouhon and Yoku already have beef from the Coalition War.
 
D

Dragomir

Okay, so Shin. Here is the problem:

Shin’s lack of speed with Ouki’s Glaive has been stressed for multiple arcs now. He can swing the Glaive really hard, but it is still to heavy for him to use as comfortably as other top tier Kingdom warriors use their weapons. This was just recently stressed against Gakuhaku Kou but was also highlighted multiple times during the Gyou Campaign.

We know Gyou’Un >= Bananji from their portrayal against Akou (that’s another thing, the gap between my tiers aren’t too big).

So Gyou’Un >= Bananji, and Shin and Gyou’Un had an extended duel where they fought for an entire afternoon, and Shin’s strength was pretty much exhausted from that encounter as he collapsed at the end of the day while Gyou’Un rode off pretty much fine and still in fighting shape. Shin even at one point thought Gyou’Un was straight up stronger than him, and he was only competing with him because of Ouki’s Glaive.

So right off the bat, Shin still had a bit of growing to do after Shukai Plains before he caught up with Gyou’Un, meaning straight up that Shin was probably still beneath Bananji and a fight with Bananji would’ve gone similarly. This is how I see it.

Meanwhile, Ouhon had Bananji completely on the back foot with his spear, literally Bananji could not even swing his Glaive once at Ouhon because Ouhon was pressing him so hard with the spear. This was the moment where Ouhon’s subordinates commented that Ouhon’s spear was essentially Earl Shi level. Sure Bananji ended up pulling his jumping shenanigans but the point is that Ouhon > Bananji straight up, imo.

Then Ouhon and Gyou’Un come up against each other and instantly Ouhon puts his spear through Gyou’Un’s arm, after Ouhon had already been trapped inside the Raigoku and was forced to defend himself from the Ten Spears of Zhao and Gyou’Un, which he not only does successfully but also escapes (a tactic that has killed multiple Great Generals). After all of this, Ouhon still puts his spear through Gyou’Un’s arm, which frankly if Gyou’Un wasn’t a goddamn beast who endured the pain and still struck Ouhon afterwards would’ve been enough for Ouhon to completely slay Gyou’Un in one more strike. Ouhon and Gyou’Un have a round 2, Ouhon kills him instantly. The point I’m trying to make is that Ouhon > Gyou’Un straight up as well.

So in Shukai Plains, in martial strength, we have Ouhon > Gyou’Un >= Bananji >= Shin. So, Shin probably got a bit stronger in between arcs, but imo he has not yet surpassed Gyou’Un, but I’ll give him the benefit and say that he is nearly equal to both he and Bananji now. If Shin and Gyou’Un fought again, it would be more of an equal fight and Shin would be able to ride off afterwards instead of collapsing. Ouhon meanwhile, was never below Gyou’Un from the moment he entered Zhao.

Kyoukai is just a bullshit hax machine, I see no argument for Shin winnibg against her lol. This bitch literally was seriously wounding Houken while she herself was wounded and exhausted. A fight between fresh Kyoukai and Houken could go either way really but obviously I gave Houken the benefit. Kyoukai is one of those characters where Hara just went way too far with her has PTSD flashbacks to Kaishibou’s elite soldiers
That's a fair take. He still has some work to do with the glaive, but what about him with his sword?
 

Gehrman

✨✨✨🌹𝓛𝓪𝓭𝔂 𝓜𝓪𝓻𝓲𝓪🌹✨✨✨
I did not put Oukotsu > Ouki lol. I put him above Houken because I assume his weight would be enough to win that battle given his incredible fighting hype.
I meant to say Ouki over Oukotsu lol. That's fair, we know that Moubu and Kanmei each have/had giant burdens on their shoulders.

They both had weight against Houken, but were simply not strong enough to defeat him. Having weight in and of itself does not make you stronger than Houken imo. Ouki was just strong enough that his weight was able to compensate for his lacking in strength vs Houken.

If this were just a strength tier list, no weight involved, I’d have Houken at #1.
That makes sense. Imo, if it was Ouki who died at Houken's hands instead of Kyou, I don't think "that" Kyou would have been able to beat Houken, but if they fought again in the future, a hypothetical Prime Kyou could beat Houken.

Mighty. I don’t know if I’ve ever clarified this on WorstGen but I love the Ten Bows lol. Kyou En is my favorite Heavenly King and I feel he is very slept on in this fandom in the sense that he just isn’t talked about often enough. He was referred to as an equal to Great Heaven Renpa in the past, and fought against 4 of the Qin 6 and did not lose to any of them so far as we know.
I liked Kyou En, he was dope and seems to be pretty well rounded in strength and intelligence. Is there any character confirmed to fight against all 6 of the Qin 6 btw?

There is a historical story about a conversation that Shibasaku has with King Sho that is quite interesting, and I think he’ll be a strategic type from this story and one of the smarter Kingdom characters.
Historically, dude was old af compared to the other Great Generals. I can see his conversation with King Sho being relevant(I think he'll be mentioned if get a mini arc where the descendants of the two states attempt to invade Qin.) I'm still leaning toward him being the only instinctual general of the 6GGs.

Gen’U: Either bottom of Amazing or top of Advanced. Not sure who would come out in top of he fought Danto or Chou Tou.
That's a fair placement for now, but I never got the impression that he was far below Man'U and Sentou'un in both martial might and capabilities as a general.

Sento’Un: Either at the Bottom of Mighty or top of Amazing. Not sure if he belongs above Karin yet.
I would put him at Mighty personally, his feat against Rokuomi and Ranbihaku was amazing.

Shin’s lack of speed with Ouki’s Glaive has been stressed for multiple arcs now. He can swing the Glaive really hard, but it is still to heavy for him to use as comfortably as other top tier Kingdom warriors use their weapons. This was just recently stressed against Gakuhaku Kou but was also highlighted multiple times during the Gyou Campaign.
Shin is a relative newbie with the glaive compared to other Kingdom warriors, and I've always found it interesting how Shin usually "knocks" backs his enemies instead of cleaving them in two like most great generals(there are some exepctions, like him slaying Gaku'Ei).. I think it's just a simple matter of inexperience. In his first campaign with Ouki's glaive, he one shot a general, killed Chougaryu, and slayed freaking Houken!

What are your guys expectations for Kouyoku? Him and Kouen could be related and he is also a talented youngster like the Qin trio. Could be one of the final boss fights in Chu if he lacks any historical information so Hara could write him freely like he does with Shin.

Karin is also fictional only from what I have read, Hara has plenty of free room to write her as the big boss of the Chu invasions.
There's most likely going to be a 1-3 Chu campaigns before the big final invasion, I can see Kouyoku and his boyfriend being the final bosses of one of those. Karin isn't going to be the final boss when Kouen/Renpa exist tho.

Historically, Kouen loses a war against Ousen and dies, but, later his grandson Xiang Yu kills Ouhon's son(Wang Li). Kouyoku didn't exist historically, but there's a possibility Hara could make him Xiang Yu's father.
Post automatically merged:

He’s definitely going to be Ouhon’s Chu opponent. The Chu campaign will have all of the Qin 6 attacking Chu at once, and Yoku being Kou En’s son with Ouhon being Ousen’s “son” is enough of a parallel for them to face each other.

Plus Ouhon and Yoku already have beef from the Coalition War.
If Kouyoku does kill Tou, I think Shin gets him tho.
 
There's most likely going to be a 1-3 Chu campaigns before the big final invasion, I can see Kouyoku and his boyfriend being the final bosses of one of those. Karin isn't going to be the final boss when Kouen/Renpa exist tho.
Karin is a wildcard, she's completely fictional, Hara has free room to use her in the story however he feels like, have to wait and see.

Characters like her and Shin are wildcards as in characters that are completely fictional or are not well know in history, changed by propaganda etc., those type of characters allow Hara to add his own spins into his story.
 

Gehrman

✨✨✨🌹𝓛𝓪𝓭𝔂 𝓜𝓪𝓻𝓲𝓪🌹✨✨✨
Karin is a wildcard, she's completely fictional, Hara has free toom to use her in the story howevrt she feels like, have to wait and see.
I'm open to the idea of Karin's role being more important than just another general that will be slayed in the future.(She seems to be tied to Chu's political court btw).

@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung this is how I interpreted Houken vs Kyou, Duke Hyou, Ouki and Shin:

Kyou and Hyou both had tons of weight, but they didn't have a personal connection/beef with Houken. To Kyou, Houken was just a strong hobo that broke into her camp and attacked her. Hyou only knew Houken as the man who slayed Ouki, nothing more. However, to Ouki, Houken was the man that killed his future wife, and to Shin, Houken was the man who killed his two major mentor figures in front of him, slaughtered his troops, and was a giant obstacle to Qin's dreams of unification.
 

Fleet Admiral Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
That's a fair take. He still has some work to do with the glaive, but what about him with his sword?
He’s weaker with the sword overall. If Shin with his sword was stronger than Shin with his Glaive, I imagine there would be no reason for Shin to ever fight with a Glaive or learn to use one lol. And all of the strongest Kingdom warriors would probably use swords as opposed to Glaives.

Is there any character confirmed to fight against all 6 of the Qin 6 btw?
I think Gyou’Un fought them all right? So by extension Rinshoujou probably did too. And I would assume Renpa did as well.
 

Gehrman

✨✨✨🌹𝓛𝓪𝓭𝔂 𝓜𝓪𝓻𝓲𝓪🌹✨✨✨
He’s weaker with the sword overall. If Shin with his sword was stronger than Shin with his Glaive, I imagine there would be no reason for Shin to ever fight with a Glaive or learn to use one lol. And all of the strongest Kingdom warriors would probably use swords as opposed to Glaives.
iirc Kanmei primarily used his sword, he only used his mace because he thought Moubu's mace would shatter his sword.

I think Gyou’Un fought them all right? So by extension Rinshoujou probably did too. And I would assume Renpa did as well.
Gyou'un said he fought to claim the heads of all 6 generals, so it's safe to say that he at least fought their armies(he recognizes Ouki's glaive, so he probably fought him and Kyou personally).

I got the impression that all of the Six Great Generals and Zhao Heavens fought at least one war against each other(So Chousha vs Oukotsu happened, Shibasaku vs Renpa, Rinshojou vs Hakuki etc all happened). Renpa definitely clashed with Ouki the most though.

By the battle of Chouhei, both Chousha and Rinshojou were dead I think. Koshou
lost a war to Chousha, so he was also probably dead.

Shibasaku and Oukotsu were both old, so they may have been dead too.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
Okay, so Shin. Here is the problem:

We know Gyou’Un >= Bananji from their portrayal against Akou (that’s another thing, the gap between my tiers aren’t too big).

So Gyou’Un >= Bananji, and Shin and Gyou’Un had an extended duel where they fought for an entire afternoon, and Shin’s strength was pretty much exhausted from that encounter as he collapsed at the end of the day while Gyou’Un rode off pretty much fine and still in fighting shape. Shin even at one point thought Gyou’Un was straight up stronger than him, and he was only competing with him because of Ouki’s Glaive.

So right off the bat, Shin still had a bit of growing to do after Shukai Plains before he caught up with Gyou’Un, meaning straight up that Shin was probably still beneath Bananji and a fight with Bananji would’ve gone similarly. This is how I see it.

Meanwhile, Ouhon had Bananji completely on the back foot with his spear, literally Bananji could not even swing his Glaive once at Ouhon because Ouhon was pressing him so hard with the spear. This was the moment where Ouhon’s subordinates commented that Ouhon’s spear was essentially Earl Shi level. Sure Bananji ended up pulling his jumping shenanigans but the point is that Ouhon > Bananji straight up, imo.

Then Ouhon and Gyou’Un come up against each other and instantly Ouhon puts his spear through Gyou’Un’s arm, after Ouhon had already been trapped inside the Raigoku and was forced to defend himself from the Ten Spears of Zhao and Gyou’Un, which he not only does successfully but also escapes (a tactic that has killed multiple Great Generals). After all of this, Ouhon still puts his spear through Gyou’Un’s arm, which frankly if Gyou’Un wasn’t a goddamn beast who endured the pain and still struck Ouhon afterwards would’ve been enough for Ouhon to completely slay Gyou’Un in one more strike. Ouhon and Gyou’Un have a round 2, Ouhon kills him instantly. The point I’m trying to make is that Ouhon > Gyou’Un straight up as well.

So in Shukai Plains, in martial strength, we have Ouhon > Gyou’Un >= Bananji >= Shin. So, Shin probably got a bit stronger in between arcs, but imo he has not yet surpassed Gyou’Un, but I’ll give him the benefit and say that he is nearly equal to both he and Bananji now. If Shin and Gyou’Un fought again, it would be more of an equal fight and Shin would be able to ride off afterwards instead of collapsing. Ouhon meanwhile, was never below Gyou’Un from the moment he entered Zhao.
First Bananji is a wild case. The guy needs to fight for a long time to be really ready and gives his all. Max power Bananji will be a monster. And the guy is still alive for a reason. He will fight in the last Zhao campaign and will be impressive. So I wouldn't dismiss him that quickly.

So Gyou'un vs Bananji during Shukai plains ? Most of the time Gyou'un would win but max power Bananji vs Gyou'un is an either way for me at least.

Yeah Bananji was pressed by Ouhon spear skills but he didn't take a single hit from it. And he also said that with more time he would likely get used to that technique.




And the jumping thing totally suprised Ouhon and bananji had the upper hand in the brawl.

So about that encouter you can't say that Ouhon was superior to bananji. First bananji wasn't all out, it was a small clash, and Bananji managed to turn the table with a suprising move.

So for me just seeing this clash Bananji => Shukai Plains Ouhon.

You can't really say seeing all of that that Ouhon => Bananji or Ouhon > Bananji




Now about Gyou'un vs OuHon :

The first duel Ouhon was really hurt before hand and Gyou Un had the upper hand even if Ouhon managed to hurt him good. But Ouhon even if injured attacked at full strength. And Gyou'un managed to endure the pain and beat down Ouhon. So full health Ouhon and injured Ouhon attacked with the same strength.

So here I think Gyou'un came as superior even if Ouhon was injured before hand.






[


the second duel now :

Ouhon was hurt but Gyou'un too :

Gyou Un injuries





Ouhon injuries


So both were quite injured.

But I think those injuries impacted more Gyou Un than OuHon.

Gyou'un arm which was injured was the right one, his main arm. So his max power swing couldn't be done. Same for his double hand swing (the most powerful one).



while during the last fight he "only" used max power left hand swing







I really don't know if Ouhon could have parried a full both hand full weight blow from Gyou' Un : a full power blow would have been faster and/or stronger.

But does Ouhon own arm strength was lessened here because he was injured ?

I don't think so, or less than Gyou'un.

During the first fight we learnt that even if injured Ouhon could do one or two full power thrust.

So overall i think both weren't all out but both at full power and full weight Gyou'un has a small edge.

For me overall Gyou Un => Bananji => Ouhon Shukai plains. Or Gyou'un / Max Power Bananji => Ouhon. But yeah the margin is small and Ouhon wasn't far behind at all.
 
I dont know how strong kanki is, but the thing is getting crazier if he chop off every head of Zhao Prisoner
Post automatically merged:

Oh no doubt about that, she will be among many Chu generals that will be slain in the war at the end of the day lol.
karin is a running gag. she will be alive by the end of the manga
 

Gehrman

✨✨✨🌹𝓛𝓪𝓭𝔂 𝓜𝓪𝓻𝓲𝓪🌹✨✨✨
Shin will likely become a Great General by the end of the Zhao invasion. I believe his biggest kills in the manga will be Gaimou, Renpa and Kouen, and possibly Riboku, Shibashou and Ousen. His biggest achievement historically is annihilating the Yan army of the Crown Prince and crippling Yan's military after the failed assassination of Sei. This will probably be one of Shin's crowning achievements in the manga too. He'll likely get big kills in Yan, Han and possibly Qi too.

Ouhon's biggest achievements will be capturing Wei by drowning the capital(I believe he'll kill Gouhoumei), conquering a large stretch of land from Chu(I believe he'll either get a new Chu Great General or Man'U in that invasion), conquering the states of Yan(even tho it was crippled by Shin iirc) and Dai(formed by the good Zhao prince, I think Ouhon will kill Shibashou here).

Then, he conquers Qi and captures Ouken.(I don't know if this will happen in the manga).

I believe that either:

A. Ouken peacefully surrenders Qi to Sei. This only happens if Sei doesn't become a tyrant.

B. Ouken starts rebellions in conquered states, and allies with generals from each of the conquered states and forms a second "coalition" army and serves as the final villain.

I think Ousen may help him if your Qi-Ousen theory is true. This happens if Sei goes crazy. I think this may happen tbh. I believe if this does, Shin will kill Ousen and become the greatest general of all time. and maybe Ouhon too(not sure).
 

Fleet Admiral Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
Shin will likely become a Great General by the end of the Zhao invasion. I believe his biggest kills in the manga will be Gaimou, Renpa and Kouen, and possibly Riboku, Shibashou and Ousen. His biggest achievement historically is annihilating the Yan army of the Crown Prince and crippling Yan's military after the failed assassination of Sei. This will probably be one of Shin's crowning achievements in the manga too. He'll likely get big kills in Yan, Han and possibly Qi too.

Ouhon's biggest achievements will be capturing Wei by drowning the capital(I believe he'll kill Gouhoumei), conquering a large stretch of land from Chu(I believe he'll either get a new Chu Great General or Man'U in that invasion), conquering the states of Yan(even tho it was crippled by Shin iirc) and Dai(formed by the good Zhao prince, I think Ouhon will kill Shibashou here).

Then, he conquers Qi and captures Ouken.(I don't know if this will happen in the manga).

I believe that either:

A. Ouken peacefully surrenders Qi to Sei. This only happens if Sei doesn't become a tyrant.

B. Ouken starts rebellions in conquered states, and allies with generals from each of the conquered states and forms a second "coalition" army and serves as the final villain.

I think Ousen may help him if your Qi-Ousen theory is true. This happens if Sei goes crazy. I think this may happen tbh. I believe if this does, Shin will kill Ousen and become the greatest general of all time. and maybe Ouhon too(not sure).
I wonder to myself if it’s more appropriate to have Ouhon slay Ousen in the end. Have Shin take credit for defeating Ousen the way Ousen receives credit for defeating Kou En, but have Ouhon be the one to deal the final blow the way Shin will finish Kou En(?).

I really wonder where the “Ouhon is not really Ousen’s child” is going. This is by far one of the most interesting sub plots to me.
 

Gehrman

✨✨✨🌹𝓛𝓪𝓭𝔂 𝓜𝓪𝓻𝓲𝓪🌹✨✨✨
Wait...
Shin killing Ousen ? :choppawhat:
It's based off a theory that Ou family of Qin is related to the Ou ruling family of Qi.

The theory is that Ousen is directly related to Ouken(King of Qi), and has ambitions of making the entirity of China his Kingdom.(Remember Qi was a powerful superstate before it was wiped out by a coalition?). The theory speculates that Qi ruling family at the time had ambitions of unifying China, but the coalition separated it into two halves. One half stayed in Qi, the other half went to Qin(Ousen, Ouki etc).

Basically, after China is conquered(or every state except for Qi is conquered) Ousen will start a rebellion in order to form his own Kingdom and be slain by Shin in a war that will establish Shin as the Greatest General of all time.

I really wonder where the “Ouhon is not really Ousen’s child” is going. This is by far one of the most interesting sub plots to me.
It makes Ousen seem a lot more human to me imo.

I wonder to myself if it’s more appropriate to have Ouhon slay Ousen in the end. Have Shin take credit for defeating Ousen the way Ousen receives credit for defeating Kou En, but have Ouhon be the one to deal the final blow the way Shin will finish Kou En(?).
The main reason why I think Shin will slay Ousen is because it is the best way to prove Shin as the true GOAT, because historically Ousen's accomplishments dwarf Shin's lol, and even if Shin gets Riboku, Shibashou, Kouen, Renpa and Gaimou, I think Ousen will still be above him.

Ouhon slaying Ousen would be pretty cool.

I've said this before, but I think we'll have a couple of major arcs focused on post-unfiication China, and I don't think Ouhon will be featured at all in them. So Maybe Ouhon bites the dust and dies with Ousen.


Mouten is forced to kill himself by Choukou and Ri Shi.

I think Shin may potentially kill Sei himself, or at the very least he'll distance himself away from Sei.

I saw someone speculate that Sei's infamous Terracotta Tomb will be based on the Hi Shin Unit, and Shin will destroy the statue that represents himself.

We know that Shin's descendants were generals of the Han Dynasty, I can see the series ending with Shin's sons going off to join the Han army.

Manga apparently ends with a picture of Shin's family.

@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung
Ouken in real life was almost as retarded as the Zhao Kings, dude legit did nothing to stop Qin and was manipulated by his bribed chancellor his entire life.

He was sent off to die in an isolated patch of land after Qi was conquered.

His depiction in the manga is probably one of the most different from his depiction in historical texts, I'd argue that the manga version of Ouken is the best leader and best politician in Kingdom.

He's capable of leading another Coalition, something Riboku could only do after slaying two legends: Ouki and Gekishin.
 
If Kanki survives Shin is going to end up fighting him at some point.
Doubt Shin killing Ousen, if anything i see Shin+Ouhon+Mouten going to take down Ousen together with Ouhon killing him in end.
Post automatically merged:

It's based off a theory that Ou family of Qin is related to the Ou ruling family of Qi.

The theory is that Ousen is directly related to Ouken(King of Qi), and has ambitions of making the entirity of China his Kingdom.(Remember Qi was a powerful superstate before it was wiped out by a coalition?). The theory speculates that Qi ruling family at the time had ambitions of unifying China, but the coalition separated it into two halves. One half stayed in Qi, the other half went to Qin(Ousen, Ouki etc).

Basically, after China is conquered(or every state except for Qi is conquered) Ousen will start a rebellion in order to form his own Kingdom and be slain by Shin in a war that will establish Shin as the Greatest General of all time.



It makes Ousen seem a lot more human to me imo.

The main reason why I think Shin will slay Ousen is because it is the best way to prove Shin as the true GOAT, because historically Ousen's accomplishments dwarf Shin's lol, and even if Shin gets Riboku, Shibashou, Kouen, Renpa and Gaimou, I think Ousen will still be above him.

Ouhon slaying Ousen would be pretty cool.

I've said this before, but I think we'll have a couple of major arcs focused on post-unfiication China, and I don't think Ouhon will be featured at all in them. So Maybe Ouhon bites the dust and dies with Ousen.


Mouten is forced to kill himself by Choukou and Ri Shi.

I think Shin may potentially kill Sei himself, or at the very least he'll distance himself away from Sei.

I saw someone speculate that Sei's infamous Terracotta Tomb will be based on the Hi Shin Unit, and Shin will destroy the statue that represents himself.

We know that Shin's descendants were generals of the Han Dynasty, I can see the series ending with Shin's sons going off to join the Han army.

Manga apparently ends with a picture of Shin's family.

@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung
Ouken in real life was almost as retarded as the Zhao Kings, dude legit did nothing to stop Qin and was manipulated by his bribed chancellor his entire life.

He was sent off to die in an isolated patch of land after Qi was conquered.

His depiction in the manga is probably one of the most different from his depiction in historical texts, I'd argue that the manga version of Ouken is the best leader and best politician in Kingdom.

He's capable of leading another Coalition, something Riboku could only do after slaying two legends: Ouki and Gekishin.
That's many wild takes.

But i disagree there could be many ways Hara could establish Shin being better General than taking out Ousen in 1 vs 1 which imo don't really make any difference. If Shin has to prove himself superior he has to best Ousen is battle tactics and strategies since Ousen is not martial beast. Don't think winning 1 vs 1 would change anything. Plus it would impact Shin and Ouhon since Shin killing Ousen don't seem like Shin at all, he would leave it to Ouhon naturally.

I liked Ouken leading another Coalition army and Ousen joining him in end. Let's hope Hara has planned something far wild for end game.
 
Last edited:
Top