Kingdom General Discussion

If Kanki survives Shin is going to end up fighting him at some point.
Doubt Shin killing Ousen, if anything i see Shin+Ouhon+Mouten going to take down Ousen together with Ouhon killing him in end.
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That's many wild takes.

But i disagree there could be many ways Hara could establish Shin being better General than taking out Ousen in 1 vs 1 which imo don't really make any difference. If Shin has to prove himself superior he has to best Ousen is battle tactics and strategies since Ousen is not martial beast. Don't think winning 1 vs 1 would change anything. Plus it would impact Shin and Ouhon since Shin killing Ousen don't seem like Shin at all, he would leave it to Ouhon naturally.

I liked Ouken leading another Coalition army and Ousen joining him in end. Let's hope Hara has planned something far wild for end game.
If Kanki survives Shin is going to end up fighting him at some point.
Yeah, I agree. I wonder how much of Kanki's subordinates and army is going to survive his battle with Riboku tho.

But i disagree there could be many ways Hara could establish Shin being better General than taking out Ousen in 1 vs 1 which imo don't really make any difference. If Shin has to prove himself superior he has to best Ousen is battle tactics and strategies since Ousen is not martial beast. Don't think winning 1 vs 1 would change anything. Plus it would impact Shin and Ouhon since Shin killing Ousen don't seem like Shin at all, he would leave it to Ouhon naturally.
I understand and agree with your points, except I think we'll get a moment where Shin's instincts triumph over Ousen's strategy and intellect.

I think Ouhon slaying Ousen does work way more thematically than Shin doing it.

And of course, Shin can still get the main credit for taking Ousen's head. Hakuki gets credit for the Chouhei victory even tho Ouki slayed the enemy general.

I liked Ouken leading another Coalition army and Ousen joining him in end. Let's hope Hara has planned something far wild for end game.
I think it would be dope if the final Kingdom war has generals from all 7 states, Qin vs Zhao, Wei, Han, Yan, Chu and Qi.

Would also be a nice callback to the Coalition War. If it does happen, I can see the Six Great Generals each taking on a general from each of the 6 states(I'm presuming that Kyoukai will take Ousen's place).

So we could get(these are just examples):

Shin vs Chu General
Ouhon vs Ouhon(Qi General)
Mouten vs Zhao General
Moubu vs Wei General
Kyoukai Han General
Yotanwa vs Yan General
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anyone wanna bet what Kanki gonna do with those prisoners in chapter 694?:myman:
Hakuki version 2.0 or Human Rights in qin era :cheers:
:myman: It's been a long time since Kanki's committed any war crimes.
 
Hara doesn't have to strictly follow history he always adds his own twists with characters lacking information, fictional only chars etc.

otherwise Ousen would be the main character because the histoy records have him with some major achievements, but lacks info on Shin, yet Hara choose him as the main character so he has more free room to write him than strictly follow history
 
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Mou Bu must have told Ten the truth about him being adopted.



I had written out my thoughts for every 100 chaps like before, but my dumbass accidentally deleted my 300+ chapters backlog and felt too lazy to write it again.

So, I just caught up to the manga and finished reading chapter 695 (French scans, English vers. isn't out yet)

And I have to say, Kingdom is an amazingly written manga. The author, Hara, really did a heck of job consistently producing quality content for close to 700 chapters now. What makes it even more impressive is that, in my opinion, because of the circumstances of the story/narrative that he wanted to tell, Hara's creativity was heavily restricted by two big factors:

1. 20% politics/relationships and 80% fighting on the battlefield

2. The supernatural elements vs. The historical "real" elements
The writing of Kingdom is made harder by the fact that it's based on history. It's much harder to draw a certain battle while having to kill important characters X, Y, and Z, making it seem logical from a story standpoint AND making it exciting to read so people come back for the next chapter. Hara would have it far easier if it was completely up to his imagination.

Kingdom at its core is a Shonen manga, a very gory and we'll written one at that, but it's still mostly full of Shonen elements. The whole story is extremely unrealistic. Shin is an extremely ridiculous character filled in a world of ridiculous characters. He has done stupidly impossible things so many times. Like when he killed that life long top tier assassin at 13 years old, at the beginning of the story. His entire first battle was also ridiculous. MC's dodge way to many arrows. People recover from wounds stupidly fast. Everyone gets random spurts of energy out of no where after already giving it their all. This world is an over the top setting with some at least minor asspulls every other chapter. Kingdom is not read for its realism. Its never been realistic and its never tried to hide that fact.

It is a part of the world and helps advance some moral themes that add to the overall story. Just because only a handful of characters can use an ability doesn't mean the ability doesn't fit in the world, like the Shiyuu clan and the Bushin concept. Kingdom is a ridiculous, but still grounded story. That's part of why we love it.

I feel like Hara has managed to expertly make Kingdom ridiculously exciting while still maintaining the delicate boundary of the supernatural elements.

At least up until he needlessly decided to shatter it with:

Shin's Revival
Shin was simply on the verge of death from overwhelming fatigue. A doctor could've stabilized his situation and saved him, but because of the circumstances of this being a battlefield, Shin could not possibly have held out long enough to be tended to by a doctor. And thus, Kyou Kai treats Shin's extreme fatigue, restoring his quickly depleting energy, but at the heavy cost of her own life energy.

Due to Kyou Kai's sacrifice, and most importantly, her extremely quickly thinking, Shin was saved before he died.

That which has died can never be brought back.





Hara, why did Shin have to die? Why needlessly destroy your delicate supernatural boundary? Extreme fatigue and exhaustion would've also conveyed the price Shin had to pay to beat Hou Ken just as equally as death.


For me, I like to judge characters based on two perspectives:

1. What is their narrative/character roles?
2. How was their roles fulfilled/executed?

And the great thing about this manga is that the vast majority of characters are all brilliantly done. And, of course not every character needs to, and realistically can, have an actual "role" in the story, like Kaine for example, especially when you also consider just how large the cast in Kingdom is. So I'm not going to mention most of them because there's not much to really discuss, the characters actions and portrayals vastly speak for themselves.

The reason why these two are criticized by the readers, is exactly what Hara was going for in my opinion:

Riboku is a coward of a strategist / general.
Houken is an extremely dangerous buffoon.
The two of them met each other by miracle.
Hou Ken is a great character. Just when you look at him from the surface he is awful. But if you really break down who he was and what he did and wanted to do, the man was a monster.

Ri Boku uses Hou ken as a pawn to win his battles, he is persuaded into participating in wars by Ri Boku, because he thinks that's where his answers lie.
Hou Ken being a brain dead berserker is part of his character, that even though he has martial might, in the end, he is still a pawn and empty shell in the battlefield. He has nothing to him but martial strength, a fool desperately looking for answers in the wrong places. These imperfections and foolishness about him is what make him a human, and an individual rather than the God that he and the manga originally set him out to be.

(Reddit) Looking at the big picture, Ri Boku’s goal is to protect Zhao, which is sandwiched between several powerful states. To do this, he wanted to create the perception that Zhao is an extremely powerful state, by highlighting the prowess of the new great generals. The idea being that any invader would have to face an unbeatable general. He did this by setting up the battles with Qin and Han so that Hou Ken would come face to face with their top generals and come out on top. So, it’s not that he relied on Hou Ken, but rather he manipulated the situations so that Hou Ken can gain widespread fame as a ploy to increase Zhao’s image as a powerful state.

Hou Ken, at the end of the day, is a tool. We’ve seen characters like this before, namely Gai Mou and Ran Bi Haku, and their strength comes both from their overwhelming martial might AND the strategists that use them. Ri boku’s style is to keep Hou Ken as his final trump card. I think Ri Boku knows that his bench of generals is fairly weak compared to Qin's, with the only true notable figures being Ki Sui, Ki Sui's pals, Shi Ba Shou, Shun Sui Ju, and Ba Nan Ji. He took out key figure of the Ou Sen army and then grounded them down and had a final trump card prepared to their final push. He’s had a plan ready for every stage of the fight. Why fight and risk dying when you can use someone else.

(Reddit) Hou Ken shows us what someone who is going through PTSD has to deal with. He was haunted by exactly what a lot of readers hate about him. He saw himself as the strongest person in China and was able to defeat anyone but he contradicts himself by not being able to face the reality that he doesn't carry "weight" that people like Ou Ki or Duke Hyou carried with them. They carry the wishes and dreams of those around them pushing them to higher limits as they carry this strong sense of responsibility. The same thing that Shin and Ka Ryo Ten said about En. He is just a normal man but he knows he has to do this one mission otherwise everyone he knows would die. The same thing is said about the weight these others carry with them.

Hou Ken didn't think of himself as a beacon for others to rely on, instead just this unstoppable force that put fear into everyone. Hence his whole being shackled down by others concept. The ideology him and the other path seekers wanted is a good thing as each person is trying to reach the height of human limits either in fighting, knowledge, medicine, etc... This way of thinking became big during the renaissance where you had men go into hermit style of living and become these genius on subjects they spent a lifetime studying.

The way Hou Ken wants to go about living during his current time period was just wrong and he was too arrogant to see the flaws of his ways until it was to late and he was met with a glaive ending his life. If Hou Ken hadn't become this crystallization of revenge and hatred from his PTSD he could of become one of the strongest generals China had ever seen. However he grew up without proper military training and was only a crazy strong fighter ( able to cut trees in half)

Imagine Hou Ken's way of life if he wasn't taken from his family and became a doctor instead. His character would've just been this generic nobody which was a great touch for Hara to show the readers. That his way of life was led by fate and the same fate stripped him of his way of living and eventually became his downfall.


The one character who I was most excited about how they would be re-introduced to the story ended being the most disappointing thing that happened to this manga: Ka Ryo Ten. Which also created two new problems: Shin & Kyou Kai.
I don't like Ka Ryo Ten's character development. What I don't like about Ten is that since her re-introduction as a strategist her growth and usefulness (in terms of what we are shown not what is vaguely implied) didn't grow or develop at all. She has so much potential as a character and its just being wasted.

She has the second most amount of screen time within the HSU. I know that's not something to not like about her but there are other characters that can use her screen time, like, I don't know, maybe Kyou Kai? or So Sui? or the other members of HSU? She keeps hogging all of the screen time and doing nothing with it.

She is needed because the Hi Shin Unit needs a core strategist, where Kyou Kai can use her tactical flexibility on the battlefield when given the chance, and Shin on some occasions when his instincts kick in.

But she still doesn't understand the way Shin fights. I mean, she already knows he is an instinctual type and has experienced his way of fighting. She repeatedly questions the actions of fully fledged experienced generals. There must come a point where Ten must realise that Kanki, Yotanwa and Ousen are simply smarter and far more experienced than her. She should then trust in people's judgement and watch and learn from them, in order to improve her own skills instead of doubting their actions.

Shin was intellectually at his best up until Ou Ki passed away. He was learning from Ou Ki, Kyou Kai and that old veteran who tricked the Wei by mixing themselves with the corpses to outscore the Gyoku Hou. Even in Sanyou, despite being reliant on Mou Ten (who was just outstanding) he displayed great leadership. After that, Hara-sensei killed his brain and growth in maturity/composure in order to introduce Karyo Ten as a strategist. Really disappointing.

What I think would've been the best for Ten is like the relationship between Tou and Ryuu Koku. Remember how Tou and he tried out various plans back at Chioyou? That should've been the way for the 3 of them to evolve together. (Shin's Instinctual awakening, Kyou Kai's tactical flexibility, and Ten's strategical mind combo) Characters should not be mutually exclusive, but rather complementary, in terms of their function. Having Ten around should've boosted Shin's intellect and strategical acumen. I know more growth is to come, but Shin is already 10 years into his military career. Its crazy how he inherited instinctual skills from Duke Hyou but only lead his first battle with instincts 6 years after the Duke's death.

Ka Ryo Ten is inferior to Mou Ten and Ou Hon when it comes to strategy, despite the fact that she is a very talented. But if she was in their units, she would be very close to being the #2 strategist, right below them. So her being part of Shin's unit is a crucial role.

She is being portrayed as a genius. There's only so much I can endure of her being shocked by almost every other thing that pops out. I can understand Shin being shocked about the strategies because he's not smart and is an idiot in terms of strategy. But does that mean Ten has to be shocked by the strategies too? The answer is no, she should not be shocked that many times. I mean, at least not as often as Shin. She's being portrayed as a genius at least in the level or maybe just lower than Mou Ten but she looks like she's only just above Heki in terms of strategy.

(Reddit) Hara has completely neglected Kyou Kai ever since Ten's re-introduction (not because of romantic shipping - that is ridiculous) I personally miss the heart-to-heart talks between Shin and Kyou Kai as two young prodigies of war, suffering from very similar yet very different personal difficulties of loss. Kyou Kai has been absent from half the arcs since she returned and basically non-existent even in the arcs where she is present. Perhaps Hara feels that her character has been sufficiently developed, but I disagree. I'm interested in knowing how Kyou Kai has grown since finding peace in her life and how she intends to fulfil her dream of becoming a Great General of the Heavens.

Ten is portrayed as immensely sure of herself in the HSU but has not shown the ability to justify it at this level. I would argue that she's been consistently out of her depth since the Coalition Army arc, which is simply unacceptable for a prodigy character. In fact, she's shown so little growth compared to her peers and the implied power creep of the introductions of new protagonists and antagonists that it practically feels like Shin and the HSU have gone backwards. She is simply unable to fathom non-textbook strategy, and yet still simply out of her depth even where conventional strategy is involved. Her character is utterly forced - she was introduced as a brave young girl with mediocre ability other than persistence (like Bi Hei) - yet suddenly declared to be a strategic genius - yet never actually fulfilling the responsibility of this role to the HSU and failing to give adequate reader satisfaction as well. Even Bi Hei has given more emotional satisfaction and shown more development.

Hara has consistently promised more with Ten, but has failed to actually develop her abilities in line with her sureness of herself. Combined with the many sacrifices to the character developments of Kyou Kai and the rest of the HSU.

She has so much potential as a character, as a foil for the natural genius of Shin and Kyou Kai, as a normal person who is willing to risk everything and do their best to surpass her limits and protect those she loves.

However, I do not like the forced and empty role of a third genius in the HSU, especially as one who utterly fails to impress, and who has at times become greater than the other combined leadership of the HSU itself.

(Ten sees herself as Jimmy Butler during the 2020 NBA Finals)


I can't even remember the last time we got to see the actual character and not just "the strategist of the HSU". She completely lost her personality along the way and just became a plot and narrative device.


Kyou Rei
Rather than being some hybrid Kai & Yuuren evil bitch:

Why couldn't Kyou Rei be a Shiyuu that was traumatized and refused to fight/use violence after finally experiencing what Kyou Kai went through? Because of the fact that she killed her sister Shiki, who only pretended to attack and stopped her faster strike short of reaching Rei, which ended up making Rei relunctant to kill again because of the image of her sister dying in her arms.

Rei then goes in search of Kai looking for advice on what to do next. With Kai and the Hi Shin Unit not only having to console her but also actually having to convince her to fight again because they need her help.

Kyou Kai having the task to teach Rei about what it means to and how to be a fighter without losing yourself to the darkness.








I just don't know how Hara can drop the ball so fuckin' hard on characters who had the best potential for improving the story by showing us the unwavering loyalty and dedication to self-improvement within the Hi Shin Unit while simultaneously reinforcing just how hard it will be to subjugate the other states. Making their required growth seem natural and the enemy/rival generals that much more impressive and almost impossible to overcome without sacrifices, hard work, and miracles.

How could he mess up 3 main chars so badly? I don't get it...


 
@Da evil Who excellent post, and nice to see you finished Kingdom. Who are your fav characters and favorite arcs btw?


Mou Bu must have told Ten the truth about him being adopted.
lmao never realized how similar Mouten and his new subordinate are.

The writing of Kingdom is made harder by the fact that it's based on history. It's much harder to draw a certain battle while having to kill important characters X, Y, and Z, making it seem logical from a story standpoint AND making it exciting to read so people come back for the next chapter. Hara would have it far easier if it was completely up to his imagination.
Imo Hara has done a fantastic job at creating characters out of a few historical texts. For example,
I'm pretty sure the main reason why Hara gave Kanki his backstory as a violent bandit leader is because Huan Yi(Kanki's chinese name) beheaded over a 100,000 Zhao soldiers after defeating Kochou.
He has also done an excellent job changing a few details. Ryofui, Rien, Rao Ai, The Queen Mother, etc were all portrayed as being more incompetent in historical records.

I mean, Ouki was only mentioned like twice in history and Hara turned him into one of the greatest mentors in manga history.

Kingdom at its core is a Shonen manga, a very gory and we'll written one at that, but it's still mostly full of Shonen elements. The whole story is extremely unrealistic. Shin is an extremely ridiculous character filled in a world of ridiculous characters. He has done stupidly impossible things so many times. Like when he killed that life long top tier assassin at 13 years old, at the beginning of the story. His entire first battle was also ridiculous. MC's dodge way to many arrows. People recover from wounds stupidly fast. Everyone gets random spurts of energy out of no where after already giving it their all. This world is an over the top setting with some at least minor asspulls every other chapter. Kingdom is not read for its realism. Its never been realistic and its never tried to hide that fact.

It is a part of the world and helps advance some moral themes that add to the overall story. Just because only a handful of characters can use an ability doesn't mean the ability doesn't fit in the world, like the Shiyuu clan and the Bushin concept. Kingdom is a ridiculous, but still grounded story. That's part of why we love it.

I feel like Hara has managed to expertly make Kingdom ridiculously exciting while still maintaining the delicate boundary of the supernatural elements.
Kingdom is indeed a shonen manga. It has so many shonen qualities, but it has managed to avoid following into the pitholes that most Shonens do(except for the obvious exception).


Shin was simply on the verge of death from overwhelming fatigue. A doctor could've stabilized his situation and saved him, but because of the circumstances of this being a battlefield, Shin could not possibly have held out long enough to be tended to by a doctor. And thus, Kyou Kai treats Shin's extreme fatigue, restoring his quickly depleting energy, but at the heavy cost of her own life energy.

Due to Kyou Kai's sacrifice, and most importantly, her extremely quickly thinking, Shin was saved before he died.

That which has died can never be brought back.





Hara, why did Shin have to die? Why needlessly destroy your delicate supernatural boundary? Extreme fatigue and exhaustion would've also conveyed the price Shin had to pay to beat Hou Ken just as equally as death.

I could write an essay on all the issues I have with the revival/introduction of Kyourei. Completely overshadowed the awesome finale of Shin vs Houken. The whole introduction of Kyourei in particular is horrible to me.

Riboku is a coward of a strategist / general.
Houken is an extremely dangerous buffoon.
The two of them met each other by miracle.
Hou Ken is a great character. Just when you look at him from the surface he is awful. But if you really break down who he was and what he did and wanted to do, the man was a monster.

Ri Boku uses Hou ken as a pawn to win his battles, he is persuaded into participating in wars by Ri Boku, because he thinks that's where his answers lie.
Hou Ken being a brain dead berserker is part of his character, that even though he has martial might, in the end, he is still a pawn and empty shell in the battlefield. He has nothing to him but martial strength, a fool desperately looking for answers in the wrong places. These imperfections and foolishness about him is what make him a human, and an individual rather than the God that he and the manga originally set him out to be.

(Reddit) Looking at the big picture, Ri Boku’s goal is to protect Zhao, which is sandwiched between several powerful states. To do this, he wanted to create the perception that Zhao is an extremely powerful state, by highlighting the prowess of the new great generals. The idea being that any invader would have to face an unbeatable general. He did this by setting up the battles with Qin and Han so that Hou Ken would come face to face with their top generals and come out on top. So, it’s not that he relied on Hou Ken, but rather he manipulated the situations so that Hou Ken can gain widespread fame as a ploy to increase Zhao’s image as a powerful state.

Hou Ken, at the end of the day, is a tool. We’ve seen characters like this before, namely Gai Mou and Ran Bi Haku, and their strength comes both from their overwhelming martial might AND the strategists that use them. Ri boku’s style is to keep Hou Ken as his final trump card. I think Ri Boku knows that his bench of generals is fairly weak compared to Qin's, with the only true notable figures being Ki Sui, Ki Sui's pals, Shi Ba Shou, Shun Sui Ju, and Ba Nan Ji. He took out key figure of the Ou Sen army and then grounded them down and had a final trump card prepared to their final push. He’s had a plan ready for every stage of the fight. Why fight and risk dying when you can use someone else.

(Reddit) Hou Ken shows us what someone who is going through PTSD has to deal with. He was haunted by exactly what a lot of readers hate about him. He saw himself as the strongest person in China and was able to defeat anyone but he contradicts himself by not being able to face the reality that he doesn't carry "weight" that people like Ou Ki or Duke Hyou carried with them. They carry the wishes and dreams of those around them pushing them to higher limits as they carry this strong sense of responsibility. The same thing that Shin and Ka Ryo Ten said about En. He is just a normal man but he knows he has to do this one mission otherwise everyone he knows would die. The same thing is said about the weight these others carry with them.

Hou Ken didn't think of himself as a beacon for others to rely on, instead just this unstoppable force that put fear into everyone. Hence his whole being shackled down by others concept. The ideology him and the other path seekers wanted is a good thing as each person is trying to reach the height of human limits either in fighting, knowledge, medicine, etc... This way of thinking became big during the renaissance where you had men go into hermit style of living and become these genius on subjects they spent a lifetime studying.

The way Hou Ken wants to go about living during his current time period was just wrong and he was too arrogant to see the flaws of his ways until it was to late and he was met with a glaive ending his life. If Hou Ken hadn't become this crystallization of revenge and hatred from his PTSD he could of become one of the strongest generals China had ever seen. However he grew up without proper military training and was only a crazy strong fighter ( able to cut trees in half)

Imagine Hou Ken's way of life if he wasn't taken from his family and became a doctor instead. His character would've just been this generic nobody which was a great touch for Hara to show the readers. That his way of life was led by fate and the same fate stripped him of his way of living and eventually became his downfall.
Fantastic analysis on Houken and Riboku. I've always been a Riboku fanboy, but I never liked Houken or thought much of him till this moment. I still wish Hara focused more on his personality and character. I remember Houken having slightly more personality in the Bayou campaign. I also wish Hara focused more on Houken/Riboku's relationship.

@Da evil Who About your thoughts on Ten, I agree on most of them. Feels like she only exists to react and sweat. I also hate how over reliant Shin seems to be on her at times. Remember when the Gaimou army captured her? It could have been a perfect opportunity for Shin to develop his tactical skills, but instead it ended in a lame hostage exchange.

(Reddit) Hara has completely neglected Kyou Kai ever since Ten's re-introduction (not because of romantic shipping - that is ridiculous) I personally miss the heart-to-heart talks between Shin and Kyou Kai as two young prodigies of war, suffering from very similar yet very different personal difficulties of loss. Kyou Kai has been absent from half the arcs since she returned and basically non-existent even in the arcs where she is present. Perhaps Hara feels that her character has been sufficiently developed, but I disagree. I'm interested in knowing how Kyou Kai has grown since finding peace in her life and how she intends to fulfil her dream of becoming a Great General of the Heavens.
The only arc where I enjoyed her Post Coaliton was the Koku You Hills arc,(the first Kanki arc) where she got her first and only general kill.

I also wish we saw her interact with the other Hi Shin unit members(her interactions with Denyuu and Suugen are heartwarming and some of my fav Kingdom moments) and seeing her talk with Ten more would be nice.

Also, she's the leader of her own unit and I can't name a single member of the unit off the top of my head. I can name like 10 Hi Shin unit members lmao, and I even remember some of Ousen/Tou/Kanki's weaker subordinates(all hail Ogiko) lol.

However, I do not like the forced and empty role of a third genius in the HSU, especially as one who utterly fails to impress, and who has at times become greater than the other combined leadership of the HSU itself.
Honestly, sometimes I think Kingdom would have been better if both Kyoukai and Ten weren't part of the Hi Shin unit.

Rather than being some hybrid Kai & Yuuren evil bitch:

Why couldn't Kyou Rei be a Shiyuu that was traumatized and refused to fight/use violence after finally experiencing what Kyou Kai went through? Because of the fact that she killed her sister Shiki, who only pretended to attack and stopped her faster strike short of reaching Rei, which ended up making Rei relunctant to kill again because of the image of her sister dying in her arms.

Rei then goes in search of Kai looking for advice on what to do next. With Kai and the Hi Shin Unit not only having to console her but also actually having to convince her to fight again because they need her help.

Kyou Kai having the task to teach Rei about what it means to and how to be a fighter without losing yourself to the darkness.
I honestly found the two pages introducing Aisen and Akkakin more interesting than the entire shitty Kyourei arc. I just don't see a point in introducing her outside of healing Kyoukai.

After that, Hara-sensei killed his brain and growth in maturity/composure in order to introduce Karyo Ten as a strategist. Really disappointing.
I hope Shin gets more character development and develops his instincts in the near future. Luckily, I think he will get a bunch of development and become less dependent on Ten in the following campaigns.

Shin is essentially already a top tier martially wise, now he needs to work on his instincts, leadership and intellect.

I think these 3 historical events will be huge, narritvely signficant gamechangers for Shin's character.

*heavy spoilers

The death of Riboku, being killed by agents of his own country will be a gamechanging event for Shin's character imo.

Shin will undoubtly slay Gaimou and give him the duel that Renpa/Ouki didn't in this arc. I think by then, Shin will have large amounts of weight. However, the highlight of the Wei arc will definitely be Ouhon drowning the captail of Wei. i think this will be a turning point in Shin's relationships with both Ouhon and Sei.

Shin's defeat at the hands of Kouen and the death of 7 of his commanders will be the most signficant event in Shin's character development

Overall, despite some of Shin's shortcomings, I think he is a great MC.
 
Who are your fav characters and favorite arcs btw?
I honestly love the majority of the characters. Qin generals like Mou Gou and Chou Tou got to shine in their own ways and show their competence. Same thing with a lot of the named supporting characters overall. Even the characters that didn't get to do anything impressive, like Kochou and Gakuhaku Kou, still got decently hyped portrayals at least. Ryuu Tou was a very memorable char despite his small screen time. Kyou Kai's involvement with his backstory was very well done. Same with Ki Sui's too. Even Seik You's fiancé, she felt memorable too. I was surprised to see her being present for Ryo Fui and Sei's conversation.

Hara has made them all interesting in different ways, so it's hard to pick. But, Saitaku died the most glorious death in the series, so he's my unofficial #1. The legend was so shaken to his core by his king's philosophy that he almost had a heart attack.

My favorite arc would have to be the Coalition. Because it was the first large scale crisis. The Battle of Banyou is probably a close second or even equal, for just how memorable it was. It was also the first arc that felt like Qin was in a crisis. I kept thinking Ou Ki was going to mastermind his way out somehow, because that's how its been so far and the whole "weight" thing, so his death felt like "ohh Shittt". It also marked the end of Shin being the only special prodigy we know, with the introduction of Ou Hon and Mou Ten. The other arcs are also great, but these two are pretty much top notch.



He has also done an excellent job changing a few details. Ryofui, Rien, Rao Ai, The Queen Mother, etc were all portrayed as being more incompetent in historical records. I mean, Ouki was only mentioned like twice in history and Hara turned him into one of the greatest mentors in manga history.
I could write an essay on all the issues I have with the revival/introduction of Kyourei. Completely overshadowed the awesome finale of Shin vs Houken. The whole introduction of Kyourei in particular is horrible to me.
See, your quote above is what confuses me on this whole issue. Hara is a master at writing characters in a subtle manner, with them having parallels to others, that makes them more interesting and unique. Like for example RyoFui, The Queen Mother, and Rao Ai. The 3 of them are completely different, yet are interconnected in so many way.
Kyou Rei is just a copy paste of Yuu Ren and Kyou Kai lazily glued together. It was so easy to tell right away when she first appeared. What made it even more annoying is the fact it should've been fairly easy for Hara to write Rei into the story while making Shin and Kai more interesting. Much easier then RyoFui and the other two...

Like, it could've been Shin and Kai, despite them killing Hou Ken, having to swallow their pride and convince someone who doesn't want to kill anymore to join their army, because they would strengthen the Unit.

It would've given a new, more mature dynamic between two different groups (Shin, Kai, Rei) & (Yuuren, Kai, Rei) "What does it mean to fight without losing yourself to the darkness?" But nahhhh, Shin was basically strapped by the balls and didn't even have any saying whatsoever on Rei forcibly joining his unit... Ri Shin the general...


I still wish Hara focused more on his personality and character. I remember Houken having slightly more personality in the Bayou campaign. I also wish Hara focused more on Houken/Riboku's relationship.
Yeah that's fair and would've made the conclusion a bit better. Perhaps after Banyou, we start to see more of Riboku explaining bits and bits about his experience with Houken to Kaine. With that culminating into the complete backstory before he dies. It still keeps the same mystery, but we would also get to see in more detail how Riboku manipulates Houken and incorporates him as a reliable trump card.



I also wish we saw her interact with the other Hi Shin unit members(her interactions with Denyuu and Suugen are heartwarming and some of my fav Kingdom moments) and seeing her talk with Ten more would be nice.
Also, she's the leader of her own unit and I can't name a single member of the unit off the top of my head. I can name like 10 Hi Shin unit members lmao, and I even remember some of Ousen/Tou/Kanki's weaker subordinates(all hail Ogiko) lol.
Ogiko and Kanki are more closely knit than the top 3 of the Hi Shin Unit. So are Bamyu and Karin. The Hi Shin Unit supporting cast are a more closely knit bunch of characters compared to the top 3 LOL. Shin, Kai, and Ten just seem like they are co-workers who really respect each other, but have never seen each other outside of work.

Ten, Kai, and Rei are the only girls in a group of like 15k men... But almost zero interactions between them. Ten and Kai have never had an actual meaningful convo together lol, outside of wayy early on during the assassination attempt on Sei.
Remember when the Gaimou army captured her? It could have been a perfect opportunity for Shin to develop his tactical skills, but instead it ended in a lame hostage exchange.
Once again, Hara had a perfect set-up, but chose not to use it.
Honestly, sometimes I think Kingdom would have been better if both Kyoukai and Ten weren't part of the Hi Shin unit.
I honestly found the two pages introducing Aisen and Akkakin more interesting than the entire shitty Kyourei arc. I just don't see a point in introducing her outside of healing Kyoukai.
In my opinion Kyoukai, Ten, and Kyourei all needed to join. This shows the perfect balance that Hara crafted for the power level between the different units and they what they needed to improve to grow. Hara just for some inexplicable reason lazily incorporated those 3 into the unit's narrative, ruining them along with Shin.
Ou Hon and Mou Ten are both sons of Qin 6GG, so for them, growing their army isn't much of problem. They always have top soldiers they can choose from to replace their fodder numbers. Their lieutenant are all top notch and some even prodigies, who can they always replace by fishing from their father's army. So for those two, the most important thing for them is to just improve their own skills, without worrying about the army.

Shin on the other hand doesn't have that liberty. The core part of his unit is just conscripts farmers that have been with him since early on, and holding high ranks mostly because of their loyalty to him, rather than their skills. They have absorbed very skilled soldiers from other armies, but still, without Shin on the battlefield, his unit is extremely crippled.

Shin is stronger than Ou Hon and Mou Ten in a duel, but in a battle against their army, he is completely overwhelmed. That is where kyoukai, Kyourei, and Ten come in, they elevate Shin's top brass, making up for the difference in quality between the armies.

But, Hara somehow fucked up the unit's narrative to the point that it seems like Shin and his top brass have actually regressed... Making their achievements feel forced.
Something that would've been great and easy to write is:

Killing Hou Ken and having Kyourei join his unit made Shin realize that he can't be the greatest general by simply relying on morale and swinging his weapon blindly on the battlefield (Houken). He needs to learn how to analyze and see the types of strategy being used on the battlefield, learn how to strategically pick his battles, learn that you don't need to fight the enemy general every opportunity you get (Gaimou vs. Ouki).

So he comes to the realization that, to take that next step in his growth, he needs to reliably awaken his instincts. And the first step to doing that is learning strategy from Ten and Kyoukai.

Which, gives a lot more interactions between them, as Shin will probably be going off-topic with the conversations and not really be paying attention. Making this a process that takes years (Time-skips)
I hope Shin gets more character development and develops his instincts in the near future. Luckily, I think he will get a bunch of development and become less dependent on Ten in the following campaigns. Shin is essentially already a top tier martially wise, now he needs to work on his instincts, leadership and intellect.
Hopefully. But this is such a good opportunity to start planting the seeds for that now. (Like Moubu and the consequences of carrying the "weight" of a living person) Hara has a great set up where he can constantly do time-skips between months and year. But normally not very much changes, just small character/plot elements.

I think that for Shin's intellect growth to feel natural, it needs to be done through a time-skip, and also for a sufficient amounts of chapters to go by, before we start to see him winning meaningful battles with it, and then mastering it.

I feel like If it's only "Time-skip. A few chapters later. Shin awakens instincts." It would feel kinda cheap. The earlier Hara begins that process, the easier it would be to implement it when it's time to. (For those historical spoilers you mentioned)


Overall, despite some of Shin's shortcomings, I think he is a great MC.
I would say Shin is on the same Tier as Gon (election arc Gon) Amazing characters, but they haven't grown much intellectually from their introduction. They need to change in meaningful ways to stay great characters, or else they'll just regress to "the street won't forget" type of characters.
 
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I think what Kyourei is eventually going to become is a sort of Ranbihaku type of figure for the Hi Shin Army.

It looks like Kyoukai is eventually going to leave and become a Qin General that is independent from Shin and I believe the introduction of Kyourei (along with having two Archer Brothers) is going to cement that.

Rei is basically Kai 2.0 in physical ability but has shown no talent whatsoever in regards to tactics (thank goodness). After mellowing out, she pretty much does as she is ordered.

After Kai leaves (and probably takes Tan with her), the dynamic of the Army is likely going to change. I predict that Shin and Ten will learn to synchronize with each other, combining Shin's instinctual intuition and Ten's strategical talent.

Once Ten starts to lead a section of the Hi Shin Army during battles, this is where I predict that Rei will come in as the physical muscle to carry out Ten's plans.

Well that is the most I have thought of for Rei. Not sure what else could be done with her.
 
Even Seik You's fiancé, she felt memorable too. I was surprised to see her being present for Ryo Fui and Sei's conversation.
Seikyou's character development was handled very well by Hara. He succesfully turned one of the most hateable characters into a genuinely likeable side character.

Hara has made them all interesting in different ways, so it's hard to pick. But, Saitaku died the most glorious death in the series, so he's my unofficial #1. The legend was so shaken to his core by his king's philosophy that he almost had a heart attack.
:josad: Saitaku's death was amazing. Lowkey just as good as Ouki's, Duke Hyou's, Mougou's etc.

:josad:


My favorite arc would have to be the Coalition. Because it was the first large scale crisis.
It was such a big scale arc. First major arc where Qin's on the defense, it was also the first time we saw generals from Yan, Han and Chu, and the first time Qin had so many generals on it's side. I hope we get another arc with so many different battlefields. (Coalition had Tou and Moubu vs Kanmei, Karin and the bald guy, Ousen vs Lordo, Mougou, Kanki and Choutou vs Seikai and Gouhoumei, and Duke Hyou vs Keisha).

See, your quote above is what confuses me on this whole issue. Hara is a master at writing characters in a subtle manner, with them having parallels to others, that makes them more interesting and unique. Like for example RyoFui, The Queen Mother, and Rao Ai. The 3 of them are completely different, yet are interconnected in so many way.
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Oh, I was referring to how different Ryofui/Queen Mother/ Rao Ai are in historical texts compared to the manga. Rao Ai is portrayed as a stupid, corrupt man in historical texts compared to his much more positive portayal in the manga. Ryofui is also portrayed as a more competent ruler.

Ogiko and Kanki are more closely knit than the top 3 of the Hi Shin Unit.
:milaugh:

:kata: Ogiko is Kanki's right hand man after all.

In all seriousness, I really enjoy the relationship that the core members of the Kanki army have with each other.

Shin, Kai, and Ten just seem like they are co-workers who really respect each other, but have never seen each other outside of work.
Exactly! Kyoukai has pretty well developed relationships with Denyuu and Suugen, and Ten has some pretty good interactions with Sosui, and Shin's relationship with En, Bihei, Denyuu, Shousha etc all have good focus.

Ten, Kai, and Rei are the only girls in a group of like 15k men... But almost zero interactions between them. Ten and Kai have never had an actual meaningful convo together lol, outside of wayy early on during the assassination attempt on Sei.
Brah did Ten even do anything in that Rei arc? I don't remember her doing anything.

Kyoukai and Ten's conversation in that arc was decent, but they desperately need more interactions. I wouldn't mind more interactions between Kyoukai/Ten and Mouten/Ouhon.

Ou Hon and Mou Ten are both sons of Qin 6GG, so for them, growing their army isn't much of problem. They always have top soldiers they can choose from to replace their fodder numbers. Their lieutenant are all top notch and some even prodigies, who can they always replace by fishing from their father's army. So for those two, the most important thing for them is to just improve their own skills, without worrying about the army.

Shin on the other hand doesn't have that liberty. The core part of his unit is just conscripts farmers that have been with him since early on, and holding high ranks mostly because of their loyalty to him, rather than their skills. They have absorbed very skilled soldiers from other armies, but still, without Shin on the battlefield, his unit is extremely crippled.

Shin is stronger than Ou Hon and Mou Ten in a duel, but in a battle against their army, he is completely overwhelmed. That is where kyoukai, Kyourei, and Ten come in, they elevate Shin's top brass, making up for the difference in quality between the armies.

But, Hara somehow fucked up the unit's narrative to the point that it seems like Shin and his top brass have actually regressed... Making their achievements feel forced.
Something that would've been great and easy to write is:

Killing Hou Ken and having Kyourei join his unit made Shin realize that he can't be the greatest general by simply relying on morale and swinging his weapon blindly on the battlefield (Houken). He needs to learn how to analyze and see the types of strategy being used on the battlefield, learn how to strategically pick his battles, learn that you don't need to fight the enemy general every opportunity you get (Gaimou vs. Ouki).

So he comes to the realization that, to take that next step in his growth, he needs to reliably awaken his instincts. And the first step to doing that is learning strategy from Ten and Kyoukai.

Which, gives a lot more interactions between them, as Shin will probably be going off-topic with the conversations and not really be paying attention. Making this a process that takes years (Time-skips)
Honestly, Shin slayed Houken, like 10 years into his military career. He should have learned better tactics way earlier lol, but i agree with your point.

I think that for Shin's intellect growth to feel natural, it needs to be done through a time-skip, and also for a sufficient amounts of chapters to go by, before we start to see him winning meaningful battles with it, and then mastering it.
My guess is that Shin will get a big intellect boost after he becomes a Great General/More influential General. Hopefully it will start soon. I feel like this current arc could be a good start, I'm curious to see how he'll handle
whatever Kanki does to Kochou's soldiers
I think Shin switching weapons against Gakuhaku Kou was a shine of intellect growth.

I would say Shin is on the same Tier as Gon (election arc Gon) Amazing characters, but they haven't grown much intellectually from their introduction. They need to change in meaningful ways to stay great characters, or else they'll just regress to "the street won't forget" type of characters.
I agree.

The sad thing about HxH is that Gon hasn't had any screentime(and by extension opportunities to develop) since the Election. I'm pretty sure Togashi has big plans for the future of Gon's character.

Shin will likely be a father by the end of the manga(and maybe soon) so I think he will at the very least become more mature.


I think what Kyourei is eventually going to become is a sort of Ranbihaku type of figure for the Hi Shin Army.

It looks like Kyoukai is eventually going to leave and become a Qin General that is independent from Shin and I believe the introduction of Kyourei (along with having two Archer Brothers) is going to cement that.

Rei is basically Kai 2.0 in physical ability but has shown no talent whatsoever in regards to tactics (thank goodness). After mellowing out, she pretty much does as she is ordered.

After Kai leaves (and probably takes Tan with her), the dynamic of the Army is likely going to change. I predict that Shin and Ten will learn to synchronize with each other, combining Shin's instinctual intuition and Ten's strategical talent.

Once Ten starts to lead a section of the Hi Shin Army during battles, this is where I predict that Rei will come in as the physical muscle to carry out Ten's plans.

Well that is the most I have thought of for Rei. Not sure what else could be done with her.
All of Kyourei's major interactions so far have been with Kyoukai..... It would be weird if she turned into Ten's personal weapon lol.

Can't really see anything else for her to do though. Outside of just fodder killing like Kyoukai usually does.
 
All of Kyourei's major interactions so far have been with Kyoukai..... It would be weird if she turned into Ten's personal weapon lol.
She has only been around for one battle after Kai brought her into the unit. Lol. Give her some time to integrate.

Besides, Kou is going to give her a good reason to stay with Shin's Army. :catblush:
Can't really see anything else for her to do though. Outside of just fodder killing like Kyoukai usually does.
Which is all the more reason to separate those two. Lol.
 
Saitaku's death was amazing. Lowkey just as good as Ouki's, Duke Hyou's, Mougou's etc.
King Ou Ken too, the most competant one along with Sei. He knows they don't really stand a chance constantly going to war, so he just focused on getting his state as rich as possible. He creeped me out at first (and still does) with their tradition of using snakes for I guess medicine, or maybe he just loves suckling on them mafakas.


Oh, I was referring to how different Ryofui/Queen Mother/ Rao Ai are in historical texts compared to the manga. Rao Ai is portrayed as a stupid, corrupt man in historical texts compared to his much more positive portayal in the manga. Ryofui is also portrayed as a more competent ruler.
Yeah, but it's also extremely impressive (like with the majority of characters) that Hara managed to change their portrayals to make them more competant while still having them be distinct, loveable characters. Rather then trying to make them competant, but running into the same Kyourei problem or sorts.

It's like, if Hara is capable of doing that with those 3, then how come Kyourei was so badly done? (her feeling forced and out of place, rather than natural)

In all seriousness, I really enjoy the relationship that the core members of the Kanki army have with each other.
Ogiko being chosen as the messanger to deliver Kanki's Sun-Bin tactic to Raido and telling him to retreat was such an amazing scene. And then of course Raido coming to the realization that he began to truly understand Kanki and would've love to have one last conversation with him... Damn, subtle, but powerful.

Brah did Ten even do anything in that Rei arc? I don't remember her doing anything. Kyoukai and Ten's conversation in that arc was decent, but they desperately need more interactions. I wouldn't mind more interactions between Kyoukai/Ten and Mouten/Ouhon.
Besides the usual sweat and reaction commentary? No absolutely nothing... Like I just wonder... Is it because of pressure from the publishers or Hara's personal life? I heard that either his ex-wife is a massive Kyou Kai fan, or maybe it was his new wife.

Because Hara didn't just suddenly become a bad writer when it concerns Ten and the Shiyuu clan. Hara is also probably not just making up the story off the top of his head without planning. I mean, you can't write characters like Kanki and Ousen if you don't have the scenarios planned out beforehand.

Ou Sen and Kan Ki have both been the same amazing chars since their introduction, they have arguably gotten even more hyped up as the story goes on. Yet it's only Shin's unit that feels like Hara doesn't know how to write them.

If it's not some outside factors, then I dunnoe what else.


My guess is that Shin will get a big intellect boost after he becomes a Great General/More influential General. Hopefully it will start soon. I feel like this current arc could be a good start, I'm curious to see how he'll handle
whatever Kanki does to Kochou's soldiers
I think Shin switching weapons against Gakuhaku Kou was a shine of intellect growth.
Yeah exactly, against people like Gaku is what we need from Shin. Just small bits here and there consistently with him coming up with the plan himself, even if it doesn't really work out as he hoped.


The sad thing about HxH is that Gon hasn't had any screentime(and by extension opportunities to develop) since the Election. I'm pretty sure Togashi has big plans for the future of Gon's character.

Shin will likely be a father by the end of the manga(and maybe soon) so I think he will at the very least become more mature.
Yeah, Togashi is effectively putting Gon(and Killua, but he has already matured) through the same "time-skip" that Leorio and and Kurapika had to go through, and we'll see Gon have to actually confront his trauma for him to mature. Cause as of right now, he only really kinda told Ging about it, but just swept the severity of what he did under the rug.
Shin will likely be a father by the end of the manga(and maybe soon) so I think he will at the very least become more mature.
No doubt. I still have trust in Hara. Shin is at the perfect spot right now, where Hara has the freedom to take his char to whatever direction he feels like.
 
King Ou Ken too, the most competant one along with Sei. He knows they don't really stand a chance constantly going to war, so he just focused on getting his state as rich as possible. He creeped me out at first (and still does) with their tradition of using snakes for I guess medicine, or maybe he just loves suckling on them mafakas.
I'd say Ouken is hands down the best leader in the entire manga so far. I bet Qi does have some strong sleeping generals. I really like his design lol. No idea what his final role in the story is going to be, but I think he'll be important.

Ogiko being chosen as the messanger to deliver Kanki's Sun-Bin tactic to Raido and telling him to retreat was such an amazing scene. And then of course Raido coming to the realization that he began to truly understand Kanki and would've love to have one last conversation with him... Damn, subtle, but powerful.
The Raido-Kochou chapter was one of the best of the current arc imo.

Besides the usual sweat and reaction commentary? No absolutely nothing... Like I just wonder... Is it because of pressure from the publishers or Hara's personal life? I heard that either his ex-wife is a massive Kyou Kai fan, or maybe it was his new wife.
His new girlfriend did cosplay Kyoukai once


The whole Shiyuu shit feels out of place in current Kingdom. The first 100 or so chapters of Kingdom had other assassination clans, but now the Shiyuu shit just feels inappropriate and misplaced.

Hara is also probably not just making up the story off the top of his head without planning. I mean, you can't write characters like Kanki and Ousen if you don't have the scenarios planned out beforehand.

Ou Sen and Kan Ki have both been the same amazing chars since their introduction, they have arguably gotten even more hyped up as the story goes on. Yet it's only Shin's unit that feels like Hara doesn't know how to write them.

If it's not some outside factors, then I dunnoe what else.
I feel like the rest of the Hi Shin outside of Kai, Rei and Ten are solid.

I don't think Hara really knows what to do with Kai. She has only had one general kill, and mostly just kills fodder. She feels like a fish out of water.

With Ten, I feel like Hara is was required to reintroduce her into the story only because Ten was a main character in the first arc lol.

Yeah exactly, against people like Gaku is what we need from Shin. Just small bits here and there consistently with him coming up with the plan himself, even if it doesn't really work out as he hoped.
Would love to see Shin slowly improve his tactical abilities against clashes with Bananji/Shunshuji/Kisui tier people.

Combat wise, I'd like to see him finally use the Duke's shield :steef:

:bamathink: Speaking of the Duke, remember how Hyou killed Gokei? Maybe Shin will have a similar battle with Gokei's son, Gouhoumei?

:myman:I wonder if Shin will get a badass beard, especially since
by unification he'll be in his late thirties, and by the time the Han Dynasty begins, he'll be late fifties(same age as ouki).
 
I'd say Ouken is hands down the best leader in the entire manga so far. I bet Qi does have some strong sleeping generals. I really like his design lol. No idea what his final role in the story is going to be, but I think he'll be important.
I've read some of the history spoilers, so I'm excited to see what Hara has planned.

His new girlfriend did cosplay Kyoukai once
You'd think that she'd have even more screentime then..

The whole Shiyuu shit feels out of place in current Kingdom. The first 100 or so chapters of Kingdom had other assassination clans, but now the Shiyuu shit just feels inappropriate and misplaced.
I can understand why Hara introduced the Bushin and Shiyuu concept to make things more exciting. But yeah, not being able to provide a proper explanation for their mechanics makes them feel like cheap Qin 6GG type of characters without all the hardwork. Trying to provide an explanation without an appropriate power system will just make it even more lame.

I don't think Hara really knows what to do with Kai. She has only had one general kill, and mostly just kills fodder. She feels like a fish out of water.
Which is so strange. Because it shouldn't be that hard. Not much has to change. Kai is strong, but she can never be as reliable/stronger than Shin, because of her short breath, so like, I'm just dumbfounded on how Hara created a problem when it should've been fairly straightforward..


Would love to see Shin slowly improve his tactical abilities against clashes with Bananji/Shunshuji/Kisui tier people.

Combat wise, I'd like to see him finally use the Duke's shield
I would love that too. Like Shin and Kyoukai combining to use their tactical flexibility...

Shin switching between Ouki's glave and the sword and shield throughout the same battlefield, that would be so very cool.

Speaking of the Duke, remember how Hyou killed Gokei? Maybe Shin will have a similar battle with Gokei's son, Gouhoumei?
Oh yeah, I forgot that despite his brute strength, Gokei was actually a tactical general. I do wonder if Houmei can fight. Would be awesome to see Ou Hon and Shin (if he's involved in the next Wei campaign) against him
 
Which is so strange. Because it shouldn't be that hard. Not much has to change. Kai is strong, but she can never be as reliable/stronger than Shin, because of her short breath, so like, I'm just dumbfounded on how Hara created a problem when it should've been fairly straightforward..
If Hara can make Ouhon and Mouten shine, hell even minor characters like Akkakin get nice highlights, I don't know why Kyoukai can't occasionally get the spotlight outside of the Shiryuu/Bushin shit.

I would love that too. Like Shin and Kyoukai combining to use their tactical flexibility...

Shin switching between Ouki's glave and the sword and shield throughout the same battlefield, that would be so very cool.
That would be dope. Idk if Shin's even big enough to use the shield yet lol.

I like the idea of Shin just fucking killing a guy by throwing his shield at him lmao.

Oh yeah, I forgot that despite his brute strength, Gokei was actually a tactical general.
Gokei was kind of like Chougaryuu, a decent warrior but his greatest asset was his strategic ability and knowledge of tactics. Speaking of Gokei, he was a total monster. Legit one of the greatest generals in the entire manga. He just died too early lol, and got matched up against Hyou.

I do wonder if Houmei can fight.
I don't think he can. He doesn't really need too, he has Ranbihaku(strong enough Kyou and Ouki were wary of him), and Gaimou, someone who is Ouki/Renpa level martially. He also might get the "God Bow" of Wei.

Would be awesome to see Ou Hon and Shin (if he's involved in the next Wei campaign) against him
I think the final Wei campaign will focus primarily on Ouhon/Tou/Shin(primary characters from the Wei Fire Dragon arc) as the main generals. Tou and Gouhoumei have established beef, and Shin has unfinished business with Gaimou.
 
If Hara can make Ouhon and Mouten shine, hell even minor characters like Akkakin get nice highlights, I don't know why Kyoukai can't occasionally get the spotlight outside of the Shiryuu/Bushin shit.
Yup yup. Just literally 4 characters (Kai, Rei, Ten, Shin) that stops Kingdom from going up another level. And the sad thing is that Hara seems to be doing it on purpose.
:josad:
Like for example, Ten only gets called out for acting like a "Karen" once every 100 chapters by Ou Hon or some other general, never by anyone else. Feels forced af and makes me legit hate her. Shin is still likeable because the chars in-story still call him out for being dumb.


Gokei was kind of like Chougaryuu, a decent warrior but his greatest asset was his strategic ability and knowledge of tactics. Speaking of Gokei, he was a total monster. Legit one of the greatest generals in the entire manga. He just died too early lol, and got matched up against Hyou.
He made Ou Ki seem like a sophisticated white-collar worker. He was terrifying. The Duke killing him certainly changed my opinion of both of them, in a good way. Before we learned Gokei's backstory I thought the Duke was going to get murdered in that duel.
 
There's a very good possibility that Chu has 2-3 more Kanmei/Karin/6GGs tier generals that we haven't been introduced to yet imo(not including Kouen).

When Shin becomes a Great General, which of the Hi Shin unit members do you think will become Generals? Kyoukai and Ten are the obvious choices, but I wouldn't be surprised if Sosui and En-San get promoted because of their seniority and experience. Naki and the archer bros are also options, but I can see Naki sticking with a lower position like he did in the Kanki's army.

Shower thought, but imagine how quicker unification would have been if Hyou(Shin's friend), and Duke Hyou both survived. Speaking of the Duke, wtf is Shin going to use his shield?

@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung, while reading historical texts, I found something interesting.
We know that in the final Zhao war, Riboku and Shibashou manage to stalemate the Qin army lead by Ousen and Kyoukai(in the manga, I bet Yotanwa, Ouhon and Mouten will also participate). Qin is unable to beat them, and instead they resort to bribing Kakukai(the Zhao official that supports Pedo King's youngest son), and Kakukai has Riboku executed and Shibashou dismissed.

The two generals that are then replaced by Zhao general 'Zhao Cong'(I don't believe he has been introduced yet, or given a Japanese translated name) and Qi general Yan Ju(also hasn't been introduced).

Why would a Qi general help Zhao, and why would a Qi general be so close to the Zhao capital? Perhaps Ouken sent him in order to serve as a double and agent and help Qin? I'll go with that.

When this happens in the manga, my theory is that Ousen will be the one to send agents to bribe Kakukai and specifically bribe him in order to choose Zhao Cong(I presume Zhao Cong will be incompetent) and Yan Ju because he's loyal/familar to Ousen and knows that Yan Ju will job to his army on purpose. Now, how would Ousen, be familiar with a Qi general? Perhaps they knew each other when they were younger? Perhaps they were childhood acquaintances:bamathink:

Of course, there's literally dozens of ways Hara can interpret this one historical text, but I think this could be evidence of your Qi-Ousen theory imo, but it's a bit of a stretch.
 
There's a very good possibility that Chu has 2-3 more Kanmei/Karin/6GGs tier generals that we haven't been introduced to yet imo(not including Kouen).

When Shin becomes a Great General, which of the Hi Shin unit members do you think will become Generals? Kyoukai and Ten are the obvious choices, but I wouldn't be surprised if Sosui and En-San get promoted because of their seniority and experience. Naki and the archer bros are also options, but I can see Naki sticking with a lower position like he did in the Kanki's army.

Shower thought, but imagine how quicker unification would have been if Hyou(Shin's friend), and Duke Hyou both survived. Speaking of the Duke, wtf is Shin going to use his shield?

@Fleet Admiral Lee Hung, while reading historical texts, I found something interesting.
We know that in the final Zhao war, Riboku and Shibashou manage to stalemate the Qin army lead by Ousen and Kyoukai(in the manga, I bet Yotanwa, Ouhon and Mouten will also participate). Qin is unable to beat them, and instead they resort to bribing Kakukai(the Zhao official that supports Pedo King's youngest son), and Kakukai has Riboku executed and Shibashou dismissed.

The two generals that are then replaced by Zhao general 'Zhao Cong'(I don't believe he has been introduced yet, or given a Japanese translated name) and Qi general Yan Ju(also hasn't been introduced).

Why would a Qi general help Zhao, and why would a Qi general be so close to the Zhao capital? Perhaps Ouken sent him in order to serve as a double and agent and help Qin? I'll go with that.

When this happens in the manga, my theory is that Ousen will be the one to send agents to bribe Kakukai and specifically bribe him in order to choose Zhao Cong(I presume Zhao Cong will be incompetent) and Yan Ju because he's loyal/familar to Ousen and knows that Yan Ju will job to his army on purpose. Now, how would Ousen, be familiar with a Qi general? Perhaps they knew each other when they were younger? Perhaps they were childhood acquaintances:bamathink:

Of course, there's literally dozens of ways Hara can interpret this one historical text, but I think this could be evidence of your Qi-Ousen theory imo, but it's a bit of a stretch.
Boi, my Ousen Qi theory getting thiccer and thiccer lol. Yeah I figure Kakukai has been on Ousen’s payroll all along tbh, and I imagine Ousen has operatives in other states as well.

As for the Qi General, It’s quite interesting since Qi has already helped Qin against Zhao this arc. Would the Zhao monarchy trust a Qi General even knowing this? It’ll be interesting to see what happens.

What’s interesting is that Zhao Cong could possibly be related to Zhao She, AKA Chou Sha, the 3rd member of the OG Three Great Heavens.
 
Boi, my Ousen Qi theory getting thiccer and thiccer lol. Yeah I figure Kakukai has been on Ousen’s payroll all along tbh, and I imagine Ousen has operatives in other states as well.

As for the Qi General, It’s quite interesting since Qi has already helped Qin against Zhao this arc. Would the Zhao monarchy trust a Qi General even knowing this? It’ll be interesting to see what happens.

What’s interesting is that Zhao Cong could possibly be related to Zhao She, AKA Chou Sha, the 3rd member of the OG Three Great Heavens.
Lmao it would totally be in character for the Zhao monarchy to trust a general of an enemy state that recently fought them.

Funny thing about Chousha, is that historically he was the daddy of Choukotsu, the general who lost the battle of Chouhei.

If Zhao Cong is related to him, I guess incompetency runs in the family lol
 
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