Forum Event Kuma vs Big Mom (Cobra vs Fujishiro) FINISHED

Who was the better debator?

  • Fujishiro

    Votes: 7 70.0%
  • Cobra

    Votes: 3 30.0%

  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .
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#2
Why kuma is a better character than bigmom


i wanted to start by saying what i like about kuma

what i like about kuma is his unchangable facial expression,calmness,design and his huge balls of steel


Kuma design is one of the best among the warlords his body proportions perfectly describes who he is his body looks unnatural his long skinny legs and his huge chest and arms his weird fashion sense holding a bible you instantly know he isn’t the classic bad guy and don’t know what he going to do next which is a sign for a good new character as other you would know what they are going to do from their design and facial expression alone which the case with a lot of character such as: moria,crocodile,big mom.

which isn’t necessarily a bad thing as crocodile is one of the best villains in op and my personal favorite but when the newly introduced character is unpredictable is more welcome

character’s backstory is a crucial part in determining whether a character is good or not as the backstory has to explain the character’s plans,motivations and goals and it has to make sense because if it doesn’t it affects the viewers overall opinion but revealing at the right time is as important if not more important than the backstory it self

if you reveal too early the viewers wouldn’t feel invested enough to know the character’s backstory and if it’s too late the viewers wouldn’t care much and kuma’s backstory is shaping up to be revealed in the right time with little hints about it throughout the story his connection with jewelry bonney and the revolutionary army his title as the “tyrant” it’s clear that oda is setting it up to be one the most important backstorys

in thriller bark we see kuma after moria is defeated it’s clear the crew had no energy left luffy was knocked out it’s impossible for the crew to survive he presents an offer that they will live if they surrender their captain


as it’s expected from the pirate king crew they decline however he doesn’t stop there and he destroys them i don’t really why but you have to agree that’s badass


but he still gives zoro the chance to save luffy and the crew

he comments on luffy having exceptional friends and refers him as dragon son proving he never actually intended to give luffy to the WG


one of the best moments pre time skip was kuma in shapody when he arrived and started deleting the straw hats one by one the the stakes felt real it really felt like there’s something to lose unlike other arcs


and when we finally got the context for what kuma was doing i realized that kuma is one of the most badass characters in one piece he risked his plan(what ever it is),his warlord status and his by saving the straw hats when there was a marine admiral and rayleigh the right hand of the late pirate king(because remember in the eyes of ray kuma is the enemy) all that without expressing any kind of fear and distraught

not only kuma protected the straw hats and helped them he sacrificed himself for them by asking vegapunk to program him to protect the sunny until a straw hat returns he did that knowing the consequences and he still followed through



Now that we talked about kuma let’s talk about bigmom

I believe bigmom is the worst written important character in op why? because not even the author respects her she is constantly treated badly by characters shouldn’t be able to touch her even tho she’s one of the yonkos she isn’t treated as such

couldn’t even catch chopper and
franky hits her in the face like she was some low underling
she is used as a pawn for there plans
she passes out from queen an underling
let’s not forget that king another underling of kaido

i want you to tell can you see any of these happening to whitebeard,blackbeard,kaido,shanks?

we never saw panels like this from bigmom


even in her own arc she was treated as a messy child by her own crew and was over shadowed by her own son

ever since wano started she was constantly thrown around and treated as an underling more than an equal to kaido and was less of a threat than orochi

how can a character that the author himself doesn’t care or respect her be a better character than a character who’s carefully crafted and hyped up multiple times and everyone shits their pants

bigmom might be one of the strongest characters but i have a hard time calling her a main villain
 

Fujishiro

Drifting alone through this endless sea
.
#3
Linlin as a character has been one of the center pieces of one piece since the begining of the timeskip. She is also one of the most influencial people in that world as of this moment. I dare say she is a well written character personality wise, she has a lot of depth to her believe it or not.

What makes Charlotte Linlin who she is?

Lets start with something simple.

Her place in the world:

The first time she officially gets mentioned is by garp,when talking to luffy about shank's real identity. He then goes on to say that shanks is part of the four most powerfull pirates in the world, these four people reign over the new world unopposed. In fact they have such power and inflluence that the peace in the world itself world cumble if the balance between them and the marines+shichibukai that oppose them became shaky.And Linlin is one of them.
At that point, while we knew about WB being the WSM and shanks being a known pirate, we didnt know fully well the scope of power/influence that was yet to be shown. So we just glossed over that revealation and kept on reading. But oda is a smart man, right after revealing the existence of the Four Emperors and their influence/importance in the world, and then reminding us of shanks and WB. We get this meeting between WB and Shanks, despide the navy's futile efforts to stop it
This panel is there right after garps declaration to empathize to the readers how dire the situation is considered to be by the marines, this is the first time we actually see the marines/WG not in control of the situation. Im not gonna go into the details of the meeting, but things dont go as planed and WB and Shanks clash.
This was when the readers eyes opened up to the true scope of these guys power, we were wondering how impressive they could be, especially when we have powerhouses like aokiji freezing up atleast a few square kms of the ocean. And we get this, a display of pure physical might. It was never stated that it was CoC who creates this, i think its physical/haki that does this. And the amount of physical strength required to part the sky is insane.
This gets us interested into knowing who the other two are, but alas besides a mention of kaido here and there we dont really get anything up until the end of thriller bark, where Lola mentions that her mother is a great pirate and would help the shs out.(ofc we know the latter not to be true but still), this is the 2nd mention BM gets.
Afterwards ofc, its radio silence for our Linlin, we get through the events of sabaody and marineford, which highlight the importance and influence of WB the emperor and how important his passing was as the trigger for a new era. This, i feel, was to prepare us for whats to come. Showing us that even a disease ridden WB was stilll a force to be reckoned with. And so we ended the timeskip with giddyness and impatience towards learning more about the rest of the emperors.

Fishman Island:
Luffy and co's first arc after the timeskip,its is an island under the protection of Big Mom. We indeed learn that emperors have territories and islands they claim for their own. An arc in which BM finally makes another (albeit not physical) appearance. She shows up at the end, sitting in her castle and waiting for the island's tribute, now you may think, oh it must be money right? Nope, its candy.But the candy isnt coming you see, luffy at it all. And she wants tons of it as payment. Its kinda of parallel to luffy's love of meat in that regard.
Shenanigans ensue and luffy offers her gold instead of the candy, but she flat out refuses. Saying that pirates do not compromise for the things they want(this is a recurring theme for her as she seems to do whatever it is that she desires at that very moment.)
The next event of importance that showcases her place in the world is,imo, sanji's bethrotal.
That is when we finally start seeing how influent Big mom really is. It is shown that she is someone who's inflence is so huge that even Demons from hell wouldn't refuse her invitation.
Then we get a glimpse of big mom's intelligence network and just overall ruthlesness

We learn that if you turn down her invitation, within days you'll receive a small present box with the head of one of your friends and relatives, she even knows about the restaurant sanji worked in and zeff.

The surprised strawhats and especially luffy, bewildered, ask pekoms how they know all that. And this answer cements Big mom and the Yonko as people you do not easily triffle with.

''When a person with overwhelming power threatens you, the future is set in stone''(but its not since luffy is the MC after all), this is to showcase again the power and influence these emperors have.

This part is done now, it was meant to showcase that as an emperor, big mom wields power and influence on a national/governmental level. Her intelligence network is top notch, there are other examples of that. Though the failings of that network relies on Big mom herself and the Cogs operating it. As much as she wants to know everything about everyone outside of her sphere of influence, her inner circlle isnt that monitored. Leading to many breaches and failures in relaying information between her crew, especially since most of them are deathly afraid of her.

I thus want to go on into the next part.

Character/Backstory:

Big moms story is a tragic one,

she was first shown with her parents. On the island of elbaf, they were abandoning her. She, apparently was too much to handle and thus they were left with no choice but to leave her here, in the care of someone named Carmel, a person running an orphanage.


A new mother, that she grew to love, a place that she could call home. For a 5 year old child, its some of the basics of a healthy childhood..
But linlin, as was said earlier, was a lot too handle. Her already monstruous physicall strength was a problem. Although gentle and well meaning, as a child you need guidance and be taught right from wrong, something Linlin never received.

In fact, she was being enabled by this mother Carmel. At this point, you would be thinking, why is she doing this? Is she really that forgiving that she would let an unruly child like linlin do whatever she wanted?
But then we get this

The woman whom Linlin loved, the mother she cherished was a fake. She was a child trafficker working for the WG. The place she called home was merely a warehouse for products set to be shipped away, children who were robbed from their youth without them even knowing it.

It all made sense now, the reason she was so forgiving with linlin, is not because of some saintly personality or misguidied sense of parenting, no. It was pure self serving greed, linlin was so valuable as a product, her potential so high that she would be admiral or even fleet admiral, a perfect shield fo the Celestial dragons the marines serve. That she was willing to sacrifice everything else.

Its all set now, these children are soon to be sold. Afterwards is a birthday party that the children and mother carmel prepared for BM's 6th birthday. A day supposed to be joyfull, but we as readers knew what was coming right after.

They had prepared one of big mom's favorite sweets, semla. Overjoyed with her new loving family. Big mom starts eating and crying, eating and crying...

And then

We get this panel, the narrator starts to ominously say that one day, on Linlin's birthday, Mother Carmel simply vanished, as well as the children. A family she just found, a mother that (on the surface) accepted her and whom she loved. A place she could call home. Everything vanished in an instant...

We as readers, slowly come to the realization that in her overjoyed feeding frenzy, she actually ate them all. A good natured young girl who had no one to teach her right from wrong,who was about to lose her family again. Ended up alone, but i guess.. in way, now they will always be with her...

Conclusion

All of this to say, that big mom, despite her flaws and the way she has been executed, is a deep and complex character. Who without proper guidance turned into the selfish and evil adult persona she has now, a persona who still carries her childish attribute. A woman whose childhood was robbed from her, and thus never outgrew it.

A lost soul ironically.

I am hoping for her to find her way back to the gentle soul she was before, i am hoping she gets past her trauma and comes to term with it, i feel like oda has been going this way with her interractions with chopper, and his interest in curing her.

I feel like, Olin is her true self, something thats trying to resurface and was only allowed to after all the years of being molded by evil meaning people led her to her current personality.

I leave you with this, this is big mom or what she could become. A positive force. The force that Lola thought she was, and i feel like lola's words will come true. Big mom or should i say Charlotte Linlin will help the strawhats down the line.

That is all, friends. I hope you enjoyed my post. :sweat:
 
Last edited:
#4
Linlin as a character has been one of the center pieces of one piece since the begining of the timeskip. She is also one of the most influencial people in that world as of this moment. I dare say she is a well written character personality wise, she has a lot of depth to her believe it or not.

What makes Charlotte Linlin who she is?

Lets start with something simple.

Her place in the world:

The first time she officially gets mentioned is by garp,when talking to luffy about shank's real identity. He then goes on to say that shanks is part of the four most powerfull pirates in the world, these four people reign over the new world unopposed. In fact they have such power and inflluence that the peace in the world itself world cumble if the balance between them and the marines+shichibukai that oppose them became shaky.And Linlin is one of them.
At that point, while we knew about WB being the WSM and shanks being a known pirate, we didnt know fully well the scope of power/influence that was yet to be shown. So we just glossed over that revealation and kept on reading. But oda is a smart man, right after revealing the existence of the Four Emperors and their influence/importance in the world, and then reminding us of shanks and WB. We get this meeting between WB and Shanks, despide the navy's futile efforts to stop it
This panel is there right after garps declaration to empathize to the readers how dire the situation is considered to be by the marines, this is the first time we actually see the marines/WG not in control of the situation. Im not gonna go into the details of the meeting, but things dont go as planed and WB and Shanks clash.
This was when the readers eyes opened up to the true scope of these guys power, we were wondering how impressive they could be, especially when we have powerhouses like aokiji freezing up atleast a few square kms of the ocean. And we get this, a display of pure physical might. It was never stated that it was CoC who creates this, i think its physical/haki that does this. And the amount of physical strength required to part the sky is insane.
This gets us interested into knowing who the other two are, but alas besides a mention of kaido here and there we dont really get anything up until the end of thriller bark, where Lola mentions that her mother is a great pirate and would help the shs out.(ofc we know the latter not to be true but still), this is the 2nd mention BM gets.

Afterwards ofc, its radio silence for our Linlin, we get through the events of sabaody and marineford, which highlight the importance and influence of WB the emperor and how important his passing was as the trigger for a new era. This, i feel, was to prepare us for whats to come. Showing us that even a disease ridden WB was stilll a force to be reckoned with. And so we ended the timeskip with giddyness and impatience towards learning more about the rest of the emperors.
i can’t see here any points on why bigmom is a good character as the only thing i see is hype about the other yonkos which is why exactly she isn’t a good character by the yobko standards

we have seen the other yonkos and their hype so we had this idea in mind that all of the yonkos were going to be like whitebeard and shanks which is why we’re disappointed

we see panels and moments of the yonkos like these


these aren’t just some cool action moments these are moments which represents their characters and their will as it erases any doubt about the emperors title so me and other fans were expecting the same level of greatness as the panels above to come from bigmom

while we got this panel right here which is pretty awesome
sadly this wasn’t what we saw in wci

myself and other fans were greatly disappointed by bigmom as a yonko as you see here
couldn’t even catch chopper and
franky hits her in the face like she was some low underling
she is used as a pawn for there plans
she passes out from queen an underling
let’s not forget that king another underling of kaido
and you can’t blame oda here because if it was a few instances it would be okay to say it’s oda’s fault but when it becomes so frequent its her character not the author fault


Fishman Island:
Luffy and co's first arc after the timeskip,its is an island under the protection of Big Mom. We indeed learn that emperors have territories and islands they claim for their own. An arc in which BM finally makes another (albeit not physical) appearance. She shows up at the end, sitting in her castle and waiting for the island's tribute, now you may think, oh it must be money right? Nope, its candy.But the candy isnt coming you see, luffy at it all. And she wants tons of it as payment. Its kinda of parallel to luffy's love of meat in that regard.
Shenanigans ensue and luffy offers her gold instead of the candy, but she flat out refuses. Saying that pirates do not compromise for the things they want(this is a recurring theme for her as she seems to do whatever it is that she desires at that very moment.)
The next event of importance that showcases her place in the world is,imo, sanji's bethrotal.
That is when we finally start seeing how influent Big mom really is. It is shown that she is someone who's inflence is so huge that even Demons from hell wouldn't refuse her invitation.
Then we get a glimpse of big mom's intelligence network and just overall ruthlesness

We learn that if you turn down her invitation, within days you'll receive a small present box with the head of one of your friends and relatives, she even knows about the restaurant sanji worked in and zeff.

The surprised strawhats and especially luffy, bewildered, ask pekoms how they know all that. And this answer cements Big mom and the Yonko as people you do not easily triffle with.

''When a person with overwhelming power threatens you, the future is set in stone''(but its not since luffy is the MC after all), this is to showcase again the power and influence these emperors have.
This part is done now, it was meant to showcase that as an emperor, big mom wields power and influence on a national/governmental level. Her intelligence network is top notch, there are other examples of that. Though the failings of that network relies on Big mom herself and the Cogs operating it. As much as she wants to know everything about everyone outside of her sphere of influence, her inner circlle isnt that monitored. Leading to many breaches and failures in relaying information between her crew, especially since most of them are deathly afraid of her.
i don’t understand how being a dangerous and influential makes her a good character all the yonkos,warlords,admirals are dangerous and influential and about your point bm choosing candy over gold,every pirate wants something they desire whether it’s gold,fame or freedom in the case of luffy

I would like to point out the fact that in wci the arc wasn’t focused on bigmom as wano has focused on kaido as wci mostly focused pudding,sanji’s struggle with his family and his relationship with the crew and in the second half of the arc something changes the bigmom @Fujishiro talked about and praised disappeared and we meet the hungry bigmom which stops wci from being a top tier arc

her crew uses their as a pawn in their plan it looks like perospero is captain and he manipulates a crew member he can’t control and it stays like this for the rest of arc she’s used from this point on as a weapon not a character

but don’t worry a character fills the role of the main villain of the arc that’s Katakuri


katakuri replaces bigmom as the arcs main villain we get to know more about his character more than bigmom he gets hyped up with every chapter we hear that he was never defeated and was never been on his back we watch as katakuri overshadows bigmoms character and eclipses her and becomes the star of the show when you think of wci villain you would think of katakuri


i want to end my post with this

Bigmom doesn’t live up to the yonko title and was replaced as the main villain in her arc used as a weapon by her crew and chopper and is often portrayed as an inferior to kaido


how is that a good character?
 
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