Speculations Kyoshiro and Hiyori are the "traitor"

#1
Hiyori gave Kyoshiro the alliance paper when she got "cut down" at the banquet. The next day the samurai were being rounded up in the capital.

Kyoshiro did this in order to use Orochi's army to find and round up all the rebels as quick as possible instead of relying on Usopp and company slowly collecting rebel members which wasnt guaranteed to collect everyone in time.

It's shown that Orochi doesn't actually know that the people with the tattoo are rebels meaning the Traitor has only been feeding partial information to Orochi which is only explainable if the traitor is actually manipulating Orochi as well.

Orochi comes up with the plan to blow up all the bridges except those of the flower capital. This plan was suggested by Kyoshiro so that when the time comes, he can free the prisoners in the capital and lead them to the port.

Kyoshiro learned about the change in the port because he's the one who came up with it. He met with Yasuie when he was arrested and they devised the new plan to change ports and Yasuie pretended to be the Witching hour boy.

Kyoshiro told Orochi the whereabouts of Hiyori so that Orochi would send forces to Capture her and these forces would get ambushed and destroyed. Kyoshiro knows where Hiyori is because the two are in cahoots as the traitor.

That's the general behaviour of Kyoshiro and the traitor and Hiyori explained.

The few missing things are Kyoshiro/Hiyori/the traitor told Orochi the whereabouts of the Sunny and fact the Udon prison was taken over. The only explanation is that Kyoshiro hates outsiders. He knows an outsider took over udon so he snitches on them so that Kaido's forces would go and kill the outsider and the prisoners would just be put back to work. Then he told Orochi about the Sunny and we see Beast pirates blowing it up. What's interesting is that Hiyori seems to like Zoro a bit so there might be conflict with Kyoshiro about how to deal with the outsiders.

This explains why Kyoshiro stopped Zoro from killing Orochi, because he hates outsiders that much.

Therefore technically, there is no traitor, just two people with their own Agenda and plan to deal with Orochi.(Even in the flashback there was no traitor, the old hag had just infiltrated Oden’s household)

Edit: Also there was no traitor in Zou. Hawkins has a mink on his crew who could've easily given the beast pirates a vivre card to Zou. And we saw beast pirates chase Kin'emon and company until they got seperated near Zou. Basically it could've been general incompetence.

The reason why Dukes jump to a "traitor conspiracy" instead of investigating whether there was incompetence on their side is because their 20 year feud was built on this Traitor business. So its mostly paranoia on their part
 
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#4
I said this before and will say this again, it would be the biggest mistake on Oda's part and the story's biggest dissappointment if there's no traitor. This is akin to Tobi being Uchiha Nanana or someshit, not someone we knew and had emotional attachement to. I have no idea who the traitor is, and why. But there has to be a traitor, and it has to be a Scabbard. :pepelit:
 
#5
I don't doubt Kyoshiro has fed Orochi some info to manipulate him into doing what he wants, but the traitor plot goes back to when Oden was still alive. Kaido suggested to Oden there was a spy in his ranks in 970.
 
#6
I said this before and will say this again, it would be the biggest mistake on Oda's part and the story's biggest dissappointment if there's no traitor. This is akin to Tobi being Uchiha Nanana or someshit, not someone we knew and had emotional attachement to. I have no idea who the traitor is, and why. But there has to be a traitor, and it has to be a Scabbard. :pepelit:
What if Oda has a point in their being no traitor?

Inuarashi and Nekomamushi get captured and fight for over 20 years because one suspects the other of being a traitor YET neither of them actually are given the Raizo business of them losing limbs for their fellow man.

Oda could be setting up the fact that their arguments were stupid since there never was a traitor from the start and they should've just believed in each other from the start
 
#7
I said this before and will say this again, it would be the biggest mistake on Oda's part and the story's biggest dissappointment if there's no traitor. This is akin to Tobi being Uchiha Nanana or someshit, not someone we knew and had emotional attachement to. I have no idea who the traitor is, and why. But there has to be a traitor, and it has to be a Scabbard. :pepelit:
There can't be an actual traitor out of the scabbards because they're the people who were prophesied to save the country.

It would be like arguing one of the nine scabbards could be dead, the answer would be no because the prophecy demands they are alive in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled.

The scabbards are completely loyal to Oden, we've seen that.

A traitor at this point in the series will mean they can't be trusted. Can't exactly ally with someone who was trying to sabotage a plan that's 20 years old or a plan they've been working towards for 20 years.

The reality is there's likely no spy.



What kind of spy wouldn't tell Orochi the scabbards were actually alive? Orochi doesn't really know if they're alive or not. He's merely acting on paranoia.

All of Orochi's actions have been based on "what if", not on actual knowledge.

What kind of spy doesn't give away the location of Momonosuke? Killing Momonosuke would end the rebellion. Only reason people are fighting is because the Kozuki name still lives on through him.

The scabbards have known Momonosuke's location and the alliance's hideout for about 2 weeks now. Why didn't this apparent spy give away their location so they could wipe them out?



They said they'd be lucky to acquire even 500 people to fight alongside them. It means they didn't have 500 people to even fight alongside them at this point. Easy opportunity to wipe out the alliance.

It means if Orochi had sent his forces + Kaido's forces to take down the scabbards and the alliance at their base, they'd easily have won and ended this rebellion, nipped it in the bud. They have 30,000 men and easily could have wiped out the alliance who were less than a 500 and weren't featuring all of their scabbards.
  • In fact, what's the point of sending people to the base of the scabbards... when they're no longer there? When they've actually acquired all the people they needed.
Yes, they destroyed some ships but... Kyoshiro is actually an ally and is in charge of the capital meaning they can always get to Onigashima anyway.

Either this apparent traitor is terrible at being a traitor, or the spy is simply manipulating Orochi and are actually trying to sabotage Orochi because the end result now is:
  • Scabbards are actually alive and heading to Onigashima.
  • Kyoshiro is actually Denjiro and he's in charge of Wano's Flower Capital.
  • The people imprisoned are more or less being protected by Denjiro and they'll head to Onigashima with him.
  • Quite interesting none of them were killed, why not kill the prisoners?
  • Orochi was given information that didn't really sabotage the alliance.
  • Everything that has happened up until now benefits the alliance. They have the element of surprise and Orochi thinks he's got all bases covered when the reality is he's more exposed than ever.
If we're honest, it wouldn't take much to destroy the alliance. All a traitor would have to do is simply tell Orochi and Kaido that the alliance 2 weeks ago were at Amigasa village, and it'd be over.
 
#8
The spy back when Oden was alive is more or less revealed.



The mane mane ability only works by contact.

It means when Oden was planning to attack Kaido, the old hag at some point touched Momonosuke's face meaning the old hag was inside Oden's home.

Someone who can get into your home has access to everything. They got wind of the rebellion against Kaido and then informed him.

None of the alliance were spies, this was actually one of Orochi and Kaido's subordinate.

The old hag was actually the spy 20 years ago.

The hag is dead now.

While there was a spy back then, I think people have overlooked the hag and have assumed just like Inu and Neko suspected a traitor amongst their camp, readers are suspecting there is still a current traitor and it's 1 of the scabbards. The scabbards weren't spies or traitors back then, it likely was just the hag as she did come in contact with Momonosuke.
 

Cyrus the Cactus

Mihawk Reigns Supreme
#9
Hiyori gave Kyoshiro the alliance paper when she got "cut down" at the banquet. The next day the samurai were being rounded up in the capital.

Kyoshiro did this in order to use Orochi's army to find and round up all the rebels as quick as possible instead of relying on Usopp and company slowly collecting rebel members which wasnt guaranteed to collect everyone in time.

It's shown that Orochi doesn't actually know that the people with the tattoo are rebels meaning the Traitor has only been feeding partial information to Orochi which is only explainable if the traitor is actually manipulating Orochi as well.

Orochi comes up with the plan to blow up all the bridges except those of the flower capital. This plan was suggested by Kyoshiro so that when the time comes, he can free the prisoners in the capital and lead them to the port.

Kyoshiro learned about the change in the port because he's the one who came up with it. He met with Yasuie when he was arrested and they devised the new plan to change ports and Yasuie pretended to be the Witching hour boy.

Kyoshiro told Orochi the whereabouts of Hiyori so that Orochi would send forces to Capture her and these forces would get ambushed and destroyed. Kyoshiro knows where Hiyori is because the two are in cahoots as the traitor.

That's the general behaviour of Kyoshiro and the traitor and Hiyori explained.

The few missing things are Kyoshiro/Hiyori/the traitor told Orochi the whereabouts of the Sunny and fact the Udon prison was taken over. The only explanation is that Kyoshiro hates outsiders. He knows an outsider took over udon so he snitches on them so that Kaido's forces would go and kill the outsider and the prisoners would just be put back to work. Then he told Orochi about the Sunny and we see Beast pirates blowing it up. What's interesting is that Hiyori seems to like Zoro a bit so there might be conflict with Kyoshiro about how to deal with the outsiders.

This explains why Kyoshiro stopped Zoro from killing Orochi, because he hates outsiders that much.

Therefore technically, there is no traitor, just two people with their own Agenda and plan to deal with Orochi.(Even in the flashback there was no traitor, the old hag had just infiltrated Oden’s household)

Edit: Also there was no traitor in Zou. Hawkins has a mink on his crew who could've easily given the beast pirates a vivre card to Zou. And we saw beast pirates chase Kin'emon and company until they got seperated near Zou. Basically it could've been general incompetence.

The reason why Dukes jump to a "traitor conspiracy" instead of investigating whether there was incompetence on their side is because their 20 year feud was built on this Traitor business. So its mostly paranoia on their part
Wouldn’t Denjiro being against outsiders helping them kinda spit in the face of Oden’s dying dream to open the borders of Wano? Why else would Wano open its borders if not to interact with the outside world?

Also I’m pretty sure Denjiro stopped Zoro from killing Orochi to avoid any retaliation by Kaido - since Kaido is the bigger obstacle to Wano’s freedom. Plus Denjiro knows Orochi and how to manipulate him, so keeping the devil you know is better than getting a devil you don’t know.
 
#10
Wouldn’t Denjiro being against outsiders helping them kinda spit in the face of Oden’s dying dream to open the borders of Wano? Why else would Wano open its borders if not to interact with the outside world?
Well Kin'emon was slso very weary and distrustful of outsiders when we met him to in punk hazard. It took a very long time for him to to come around to trusting g luffy and the rest even when they saved his life

These guys were told to follow Oden's dream but its not like they just immediately understand Oden's dream just like that
 
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