Versus Battle Minato vs Tobirama

Cinera · Jun 17, 2020

Location: Gokage vs Madara
Distance: 25 m
Mindset: Intent to Kill
Knowledge: Manga
Restrictions:

Alive versions for both
- This means Minato doesn't have the Kyuubi

Minato has the much faster Hiraishin and is much more proficient in it. He is a bonafide seals master as well (he has great seals feats too (e.g. redirecting the Kyuubi's Bijuudama with a teleportation barrier)). As for offensive power, he's got Rasengan, and with Hiraishin he can use it to great effectiveness. He also has Sage Mode (even if he's not very skilled with it, but he looked less animalistic than Jiraiya, so he's probably more proficient than him). Scaling from Naruto (or even Jiraiya), Sage Mode should amp all his stats (AP, speed, defence, CQC ability, etc) by a few levels. He has the toad summons as well.

IIRC, Minato was able to combat Ay and Bee simultaneously without having to use Sage Mode, so his base stats are pretty good. If you factor in Sage Mode on top, he becomes a lot more impressive.

Tobirama should have an imperfect Edo Tensei, but given the era he's from he probably only has a few notable shinobi to summon. With Hiraishin, manga knowledge and Rasengan, Minato can probably prevent Tobirama from successfully activating it. Tobirama does have Suiton hype, and I guess he has some destructive Suiton justu (I am not convinced he's on Kisame's calibre though).

I'm not very conversant with Tobirama's feats (I basically stopped actively following Naruto after the Five Kage Summit, and only saw some fights afterwards), so there's probably stuff I'm missing. In my limited knowledge I found Minato more impressive, but some folks have vehemently argued that Tobirama would win, so I decided to see what the experts had to say.

Enma · Jun 17, 2020

I'd say Minato because of better feats. But it won't be easy, Tobirama is a Senju, his chakra reserves are insane. And Edo Tensei + Hiraishin, though imperfect, will be a pain to deal with. But Minato simply shown himself better.

Minato Extreme-Diffs. High-Diffs if in Sage Mode.

Xione · Jun 17, 2020

I find Naruto discussions to be fairly boring or just based around selective comparison of feats, but since you kindly tagged me here's my opinion on the topic:

I'd say Tobirama wins mid-diff.

The hokage set up for Naruto always has felt pretty "basic" to understand imo.

- You have the the non-edgy ones - Hashirama, Hiruzen, Tsunade, Naruto
- You have the edgy dudes who're the inferiors, the edgy ones - Tobirama, Minato, Kakashi, ???

Minato to me in general felt like a nerfed Tobirama with a slightly better Shunshin. But this is also the case with Hashirama - Hiruzen, Hashirama had tons of Jutsus under his belt with tons of scrolls for them, but Hiruzen had better "mastery". The original two have the raw power & a good amount of mastery, the two that followed had lesser raw power but bit better mastery.

As for Tobirama's feats, the man never had any "fight" in the series, unlike Minato who had tons of oppertunities to showcase his prowess since he had a dedicated scenario set up around him that required him to showcase his prowess (The Kyuubi incident with Obito). He had starts off in the edo tensei form against Juubito, so not gonna be seeing much there due to Juubito just overpowering him. He then gets into supporting Naruto & BM Minato. So what we really have for Tobirama is his 1 time usage of Edo Tensei, and his supportive capabilities with the FTG, some okayish water jutsu. This of course happens while Tobirama is nerfed in his edo tensei form. (Hiruzen suffers from the samething when it comes to "feats")

Minato on the other hand we saw him in as a main focus of a storyline in a flashback in his alive peak against other combatants. We also then saw Minato who is many times stronger than alive Minato being a focus in the war.

Now based on the feats that we do have this is the following assessment we can make imo:

- Speed: Minato's Shunshin is superior, while their FTG is the same.
- Chakra: Tobirama blows Minato out of the park, the man cracks walls just by raising his chakra inside him, Hashirama being the only other Shinobi capable of that. This would result in Tobirama having more powerful jutsu but also being able to outlast Minato.
- Instincts/reactions: Tobirama is superior, his reacting to Juubito & Then the stuff against Hashi Dna/Rinnegan/SM Madara. And just out doing Minato when both were put in the same situation to deal with, please note that Minato doesn't even sense what happened until after Tobirama leaves, this is while he has KCM:

- Smarts: Tobirama, I don't think this is much of a question he's probably the smartest shinobi the leaf village has produced. Edo tensei creation, shadow clones, tons of other unknown jutsu, researching the sharingan's process and workings, creating the core of the ninja world's system that was copied by the rest of the world.

If you're going into tangibles of that you think might play a role like experience, more knowledge on various jutsus and such, then Tobirama even increases the gap more.

Here's a few things we have with Tobirama as far as portrayal goes: Suiegetsu, Orochimaru, Juugo?, Sasuke got cautious when he simply raised his chakra. Then when he lifted his finger to intensify it more, EMS Sasuke felt threatened.

All the things done by Tobirama during the Shinobi war were done without being at full power, something very crucial:

As the war continues and Madara gains Hashirama's SM and body and his own Rinnegan, Tobirama then confronts Madara, where Madara puts him down. But in putting him down Madara makes the statement below. Where's giving importance to the panel above, that Tobirama (and his brother as well) weren't revived at full power, and because of that he has the edge. He's basically considering a full powered Tobirama a threat.

Tobirama's portrayal suffers in the fandom due to the heavily misinterpreted issue regarding Kinkaku/Ginkaku incident with Tobirama. While Minato usually gets boosted because of the hype he got from weaklings like Ay and such.
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As for SM, it's a non-factor here. Takes Minato too long to build it up and for that waiting he can't maintain it for long, along with him never actually mastering it in combat. Tobirama will feast on Minato if he tries to go into SM.

This will probably be a CQC heavy fight, with who can overwhelm the other, which would give Tobirama the edge due to his vast amounts of chakra.

Tobirama also has the ability to link himself to Minato's chakra and use Minato's own FTG tags. Whether Minato can do that is just as much of a guess as Tobirama being able to do the FTG based barriers.

Cinera · Jun 17, 2020

@Xione thanks very much for the in depth reply. I do have a few points of contention though.

Xione said:

I think this is blatantly false. Unless I'm mistaken, Tobirama straight up admitted the inferiority of his FTG, and acknowledged that Minato's was faster. IIRC Minato also had a higher level of the technique?

Even the below scan you posted involves Tobirama admitting inferiority:

Xione said:

Nah, it very much is. Minato has the highest score in chuunin exams (or was it Academy) history. That's higher than even Itachi, and Itachi is the same guy that Hashirama said had Hokage like thinking at age 7. Itachi's intellect has been greatly wanked, and Minato has portrayed to have even greater intellect.

As for portrayal, Jiraiya also thought Minato was the golden child and destined hero. It's not a combat feat, but it is noteworthy.

Xione said:

I think this is very irrelevant and also kind of wrong? Naruto and Tsunade are vastly inferior in jutsu knowledge and mastery to Tobirama, Minato and Kakashi. Hell it's not even clear that Hashirama is above any of the aforementioned three.

As for strength rankings, i've always felt it was Naruto/Hashirama > Tobirama/Minato > Hiruzen > Kakashi > Tsunade.

I guess Minato does appear startled by Tobirama's chakra in this panel (notably, Hashirama is not depicted as such), so I guess it could be used to argue for superior portrayal in Tobirama's favour:

Even though Minato admitted he wasn't very skilled with Sage Mode, he did appear to be much less animalistic than Jiraiya, so he is probably still more proficient with it than him. Sage Mode remains a very serious boost to all Minato's stats. It may be possible that Tobirama doesn't let Minato gather the requisite chakra, but we shouldn't write of Sage Mode entirely.

Xione · Jun 17, 2020

Cinera said:

My pleasure and for sure will address those points now.

You are mistakened. What Tobirama admit Minato was faster in was Body Flicker technique, the technique ninja use to move really fast. For example here, Minato and Tobirama use body flicker technique to take Hashirama and Hiruzen to their respective statues, note the indicators on the ground implying sombody jumping off the ground:

FTG's speed is the same, can't increase it or decrease it. It is what it is, that's it. The translations sometimes call body flicker technique "teleportation" technique even though it's not a teleportation technique just a high speed movement technique.

I'd like to ask you to point out where Tobirama's inferiority is shown in the panel you posted there that would have some correlation with FTG's performance in battle, meaning point out the specific statement for me. The panel there showcases Tobirama's mastery, not inferiority.

-> Tobirama connected himself to Naruto's chakra which allowed him to teleport anybody that is connected by Naruto's chakra.
-> Tobirama was also then able to connect himself to Minato's chakra, which allowed him to use Minato's ftg tags. Meaning he can use Minato's tags if they were his own.

Both being needed to rescue the ninja at faster rate.

They're not teleporting people here on a high scale. Furthermore, it's actually unclear whether Minato can move the whole Shinobi alliance without relying on the Kyuubi's chakra and whether Tobirama was referring to not being able to do what Minato had just done due to the Kyuubi's chakra or just in general. My guess is he's talking about what Minato could do with the Kyuubi's chakra, as that's what allowed him to teleport everyone.

You're mistakened again. A guilty Hiruzen called Itachi as somebody who had the wisdom of Hokage at age 7, but this was referring to a very specific thing, the idea that he was putting the village before his clan.

- The highest score has no relevance to the guy who created the chunin exams and the academy lol. Tobirama is the guy who Orochimaru respects due to his intellect. Tobirama's intelligence is what allowed him to create jutsus like Shadow clone techniques, and the OP Edo Tensei, he's unparalleled in this regard, he did all of this while he was being limited by Hashirama ethically. You take away the ethics like Orochimaru, he'd probably out blow everyone. He also broke down the process of how the Sharingan works. While doing all of the scientific jutsu stuff he was also working on implementing the various things regarding the ninja system and how it works. You can then also throw in him directing Minato/Sasuke/Naruto during the battle. Battle tactics, political systems, jutsu inventions.. dude is pretty much the perfect package in the naruto-verse as far as smarts go.

That's because the prophecy was that his student would be that. If you remove the prophecy he wouldn't think that. Then he switched it to Naruto.

Naruto? Sure in the end of the series of Naruto. But if including Boruto, Naruto is probably at the top.
Tsunade being vastly inferior in jutsu KNOWLEDGE?? This just doesn't make sense. Tsunade has great mastery over medical ninjutsus, which would require vast knowlege on other types of ninjutsus, especially sealing types for her ultimate medical ninjutsu. The woman created a whole sect of a different style of ninjutsu, gotta give her more credit than that, Tsunade is a walking library bro lol. And I misstated the "mastery" not the word I was looking for to describe what I wanted to say, I edited the post right before you posted.

I actually didn't even look at Minato here ahaha. But thanks for pointing it out, but yea just Tobirama flexing his chakra by raising his finger puts even Minato on alert.

He was able to control the Sage chakra better than Jiraiya. Buttt he can't use it for all that long. It is a very serious boost, i agree, that might allow him to match up with Tobirama's monstrous chakra, but sadly it doesn't last much long and requires too much build up.

Even at the start of Naruto, the top 2 Shinobi of Konoha were Hashirama and Tobirama, take it for what you will:

Draco · Jun 17, 2020

About their speed (it's the most important factor)

Their Hiraishin is probably the same in terms of speed. It's a teleportation. Instant = instant, can't get any faster than that. So IMO it depends on the reactivity, the mental reaction to FTG activation. And on that, no idea who is the best. I need to do some research. They are probably equal or slighty advantage for Minato......

But in fact yeah, I think Minato is superior in FTG use. He controls battlefield. , has marked Kunai so doesn't waste time using seals and uses lot of them efficiently . The manga and data book would not go about praising that minato was better without any reason

Had Minato been in the same position against Madara he would have simply teleported somewhere instead of

Furthermore

This image shows Base Minato's superiority over Tobirama in term of speed/shunshin.

...Knowing that he reached the battlefield long before Tobirama (but before that, he also dropped his tagged kunais in the sea to teleport Juubidama).

Tobirama tagging JJ Obito is kinda exaggerated due to the fact he needed to sacrifice half of his body to mark him (he needed to be an Edo) whereas minato lost his marking on Obito altogether... And Tobirama tagged brain off Juubito.

But I don't deny it, Tobirama have still impressive speed feats (it's KCM Minato here) so it's very, very tight.

However, I still think Minato have the edge.

Reaction speed: Equal or slighty advantage for Minato
Hiraishin speed: Equal (but Minato can make a far better use of FTG).
Shunshin speed: Minato

That's why Minato edges it IMO.

Minato wins with extrem diff. Sure Tobirama is more versatile (yet it's not like Minato's arsenal is limited to Kunai and Rasengan as claimed by some) he probably have more stamina/chakra (Senju and big chakra. But Minato have large chakra reserve too. Even in base (it's even more evident when you read his feats during Obito attacks on Konoha, it's still impressive). Tobirama will never blows Minato out of the park just because he was badass in front of Sasuke gang), but Minato surpasses him in his main point, speed, and Rasengan is more suitable for a Hiraishin user than a long ranged Suiton which require mudras, same goes for Gojō Kibaku Fuda which is not easy to place with mere fodder ET. Specially against someone fast like Minato (and he probably can neutralize ET with some seals. Don't think he obviously need Shinigami to seal them. And maybe with his speed, he'll be able to stop Tobirama from summoning his Edo in time.).

Furhtermore Suiton Senbon is lacking in terms of DC compared to Rasengan in which case Minato holds the slight advantage here.

Also yes, Tobirama can tagg ordinary Kunais as we saw against Madara, he even combined a sword with FTG to kill Izuna (but here he doesn't have a sword). But nevertheless tagged kunais, prepared kunais, using Kunais remains Minato's specialty...

So offensively Minato has the advantage.

Minato extrem diff. Tobirama remains very close to his level in the area of speed. I consider him as smart as Yondaime. And he's vicious, sensor (but Base Minato too if I remember well), he can play dead, make the opponent believe there's no more danger...and then hit him. And he probably have more chakra (but not that far).

Edit: Minato Summons and SM are useless here. About summons, Minato doesn't realy rely on them a lot like Jiraiya.
It would have to be a really special situation with Kyuubi for him to decide to use Bunta.

SM is not his forte and he has to stand still to activate it. So it won't do any good here.

Edit 2: Tobirama won't be able to connect to Minato chakra and use his markings this time. They're not ally (and if he can, Minato can do the same).

Bogard · Jun 17, 2020

Close battle, both are very powerful shinobis, but imo Minato was overall the stronger shinobi

First of all, both are FTG users, both are sensors, both can use clones, with Tobirama was known for his speed, but Minato ended up surpassing him in the area

> Better shunshin with fast striking speed
> Better equipement(with the teleportative kunais)
> FTG barrier to redirect attacks
> Higher level of hiraishin allowing him to teleport much more people simulataneously
> A stage 3 he wanted to use against Jubito that Tobirama wasn't aware of

Outside of that, Tobirama has edo tensei, but not only it requires prep time(collecting someone's DNA, having a corpse, and so on), but his version of edo tensei was less refined than Orochimaru's, which was also less refined than Kabuto's and thus as a result, the reincarnated are pale copies to their alive selves.

Furthermore, when Chiyo saw someone could bind 4 people with Edo Tensei, she was suprised by its evolution, implying that Tobirama couldn't bind that much, maybe 1 ou 2

I think Tobirama's main use of it was the tandem explosive tag technique

But in a battle between speedsters / teleporters, it's less relevant imo

On the other hand, Minato was known as a sealing master(that is a direct counter to edo reanimation), with Uzumaki sealing techniques being so feared, they had to be eradicated

Beyond this, there is Tobirama's suiton ninjutsu, which gives him a decent range game, but Minato also has powerful range possibilities with summons, who are well-versed not only in ninjutsu, but taijutsu(Gamabunta could hold his own against Shukaku a little), genjutsu and even senjutsu

Minato also had a limited sage mode usage(that could theoritcally even be nullified with the amphibian technique tbh - when Pa/Ma fuse with the sage user to collect natural energy for him), something Tobirama didn't have judging by how impressed he was when he realized Naruto had SM(with huge reserve being necessary)

So ultimately then, when taking into consideration the fact that
> Minato has superior summoning supports(well-versed in ninjutsu, taijutsu, genjutsu, senjutsu)
> Superior close range destructive capacity with the rasengan
> Greater teleportative range / versatility(with his kunais)
> Better defensive technique(FTG barrier)
> Temporarily SM boost(that could theoritically be upgraded)

I believe then that Minato overall was the superior shinobi, with better attributs to overwhelm Tobirama in battle. In a battle between speedsters, it's very important like we can see here

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And in terms of portrayal, Tobirama was mentioned to have been defeated by Ginkaku/Kinkaku

On the other hand, Minato could fight A and B at the same time multiple times, thought to be unsurpassable by a A calling it the ultimate tag team

Kinkaku/Ginkaku seemed to have respected Sandaime Raikage more seeing how from just looking at Darui's tatoo, they believed he could give them a good fight

On the other hand, Minato had flee on sight orders during Sandaime Raikage's era, considered child of prophecy, with him ultimately turning the balance of wars by himself

Hiruzen was mentioned to have superior talent to Tobirama from childhood

When Minato took over Hiruzen's hokage title in his 20s despite age being a factor in becoming hokage(it was debated if Kakashi should become hokage because of his age, until someone brought up that Minato was even younger) to the point he was the ultimate hope of Konoha shinobis, and Obito+9tails threat being avoided solely through his actions

Seraphoenix · Jun 17, 2020

I'll say at the start that's it's been years since I debated Naruto seriously or even revisited the manga. I was also known as somewhat of a Minato and Itachi 'wanker'.

The problem with Minato is he is incredibly elusive. It would be really hard to tag him one on one unless you have Juubi Jin level speed. Not only that, but his fighting style revolves around very quick attacks that need no hand seals. I'm talking about the rasengan and his kunai here. So you have to ask yourself, will Tobirama get time to get hand seals off for his jutsu? I doubt it at 25m. Minato's striking speed is incredibly fast. We already saw that he outspeeds Tobi in shunsin. I think he also has faster reflexes given how he reacted to Tobi, the Fourth Raikage and 8 Gate Guy.

The gist of this is that it is harder for Tobi to hit Minato, than the other way around. Given that his body isn't that special in terms of durability, he can die to kunai or a rasengan. Tobi has an edge in chakra reserves but Minato is no slouch there either. It also isn't relevant if you can't hit your opponent.

Lastly, I don't see how Tobi wins when Minato can always force a draw with Death Reaper Seal.

I kept it short here as I see Bogard mentioning most of what I would.

Seth · Jun 17, 2020

Putting me "One of the few biggest Minato and Itachi wankers" into Minato vs. Xddd

Minato lol diff :doffytroll:

Bullet · Jun 17, 2020

I don't remenber much of their feats but i think Minato would win because of sage mode :kayneshrug:

TheAncientCenturion · Jun 17, 2020

Minato wins high diff. This becomes a game of tag and Minato has a superior usage of hirashinigiri.

Even with Edo tensei, Tobirama can’t win. The contract seal used against Obito would likewise set the Edo Tensei free and against Tobirama.

Bullet said:

He can’t use sage mode in battle.

Bullet · Jun 17, 2020

TheAncientCenturion said:

Okay then i give it to Tobirama because i like him more lol
Extreme diff.

TheAncientCenturion · Jun 17, 2020

Bullet said:

I don’t think so. He has an earlier FTG usage, none of his ninjitsu is as effective as rasengan, and both have reasonably large reserves. So it just comes down to Minato tagging Tobirama with more lethal force.

Xione · Jun 17, 2020

My personaly realistic scenario:

- Edo Tensei won't be used
- SM won't be used
- Sealing techs won't be used

^ All of the above are pointless, since both rely on speed.

Completely forgot about him out doing KCM Minato, somebody many times superior to base Minato, in quick thinking and reaction timing that the panel posted by @Draco pointed out.

Both start off cool. Minato attempts Shunshin on Tobirama, Tobirama counters with his superior reactions. Both back off, Tobirama hits the shadow clone jutsu, Minato does the same. Short exchange there. Tobirama maxes out the number of shadow clones to overwhelm Minato's numbers, which is going to be by quite a lot due to the vast gap between their reserves. Now you have an overwhelming number in clones spamming FTG against Minato, which will make it easier for Tobirama to tag Minato. Tobirama then can form a connection with Minato's chakra and take over Minato's FTG seal if needed and nullify Minato's FTG completely.. which results in a dead Minato.

TheAncientCenturion said:

I think you're heavily underestimating the chakra gap. There is vast difference between Tobirama's reserves & the next up after that among the Hokage other than his own brother. His raising of chakra from just his index finger leading to immense pressure being felt even by EMS Sasuke being an indicator of that. Even the Raikages who are said to boast Bijuu level chakras don't have much on it.

TheAncientCenturion · Jun 17, 2020

Xione said:

Part 1 Orochimaru and old Hiruzen we’re capable of that too though, it’s not a great feat to use to show his chakra volume being far above Minato’s. Whereas we know for a fact you need large reserves to attempt sage mode and Minato’s only failing is his inexperience with senjutsu.

Cinera · Jun 17, 2020

@Marimo_420, @Natalija: I think these posts by @Xione make a good case for Tobirama being overall stronger:

Xione said:

Cinera said:

Xione said:

However, I found the arguments of @Bogard, @Draco, @TheAncientCenturion and @Seraphoenix on why Minato wins the particular matchup more convincing:

Draco said:

Bogard said:

Seraphoenix said:

TheAncientCenturion said:

Essentially Minato has the much better speed with superior Shunshin, FTG usage and his kunai. This means he would be landing a lot more hits than vice versa. Rasengan also gives him quite the punch and is much more useful in this battle than Tobirama's Suiton. Furthermore, Minato's sealing prowess nicely counters Tobirama's Edo Tensei usage and combined with his FTG he should be able to neutralise his Tandem Exploding tag technique.

This image in particular was quite convincing:

Xione · Jun 17, 2020

TheAncientCenturion said:

Right but the difference is that it took two of them to barely make this tiny crack, while flexing their chakras at an intense level:

Tobirama on the other hand by himself while normally talking cracks up a whole wall.

But it's not just the crack that I'm pointing out here it's pressure that comes with the raising of the chakra. Both of the individuals that you mentioned were there when Tobirama raised his chakra only a little bit rather than flexing it completely like they did, and they felt threatened or sharply alert from it (even Minato himself), while suigetsu was already starting to melt. That sheer pressure was only outdone by his brother who is at a much higher volume of chakra completely flexed his chakra, his brother was also the only one who wasn't alert or felt Tobirama's chakra pressure to be threatening.

Natalija · Jun 17, 2020

Xione said:

I find Naruto discussions to be fairly boring or just based around selective comparison of feats, but since you kindly tagged me here's my opinion on the topic:

I'd say Tobirama wins mid-diff.

The hokage set up for Naruto always has felt pretty "basic" to understand imo.

- You have the the non-edgy ones - Hashirama, Hiruzen, Tsunade, Naruto
- You have the edgy dudes who're the inferiors, the edgy ones - Tobirama, Minato, Kakashi, ???

Minato to me in general felt like a nerfed Tobirama with a slightly better Shunshin. But this is also the case with Hashirama - Hiruzen, Hashirama had tons of Jutsus under his belt with tons of scrolls for them, but Hiruzen had better "mastery". The original two have the raw power & a good amount of mastery, the two that followed had lesser raw power but bit better mastery.

As for Tobirama's feats, the man never had any "fight" in the series, unlike Minato who had tons of oppertunities to showcase his prowess since he had a dedicated scenario set up around him that required him to showcase his prowess (The Kyuubi incident with Obito). He had starts off in the edo tensei form against Juubito, so not gonna be seeing much there due to Juubito just overpowering him. He then gets into supporting Naruto & BM Minato. So what we really have for Tobirama is his 1 time usage of Edo Tensei, and his supportive capabilities with the FTG, some okayish water jutsu. This of course happens while Tobirama is nerfed in his edo tensei form. (Hiruzen suffers from the samething when it comes to "feats")

Minato on the other hand we saw him in as a main focus of a storyline in a flashback in his alive peak against other combatants. We also then saw Minato who is many times stronger than alive Minato being a focus in the war.

Now based on the feats that we do have this is the following assessment we can make imo:

- Speed: Minato's Shunshin is superior, while their FTG is the same.
- Chakra: Tobirama blows Minato out of the park, the man cracks walls just by raising his chakra inside him, Hashirama being the only other Shinobi capable of that. This would result in Tobirama having more powerful jutsu but also being able to outlast Minato.
- Instincts/reactions: Tobirama is superior, his reacting to Juubito & Then the stuff against Hashi Dna/Rinnegan/SM Madara. And just out doing Minato when both were put in the same situation to deal with, please note that Minato doesn't even sense what happened until after Tobirama leaves, this is while he has KCM:

- Smarts: Tobirama, I don't think this is much of a question he's probably the smartest shinobi the leaf village has produced. Edo tensei creation, shadow clones, tons of other unknown jutsu, researching the sharingan's process and workings, creating the core of the ninja world's system that was copied by the rest of the world.

If you're going into tangibles of that you think might play a role like experience, more knowledge on various jutsus and such, then Tobirama even increases the gap more.

Here's a few things we have with Tobirama as far as portrayal goes: Suiegetsu, Orochimaru, Juugo?, Sasuke got cautious when he simply raised his chakra. Then when he lifted his finger to intensify it more, EMS Sasuke felt threatened.

All the things done by Tobirama during the Shinobi war were done without being at full power, something very crucial:

As the war continues and Madara gains Hashirama's SM and body and his own Rinnegan, Tobirama then confronts Madara, where Madara puts him down. But in putting him down Madara makes the statement below. Where's giving importance to the panel above, that Tobirama (and his brother as well) weren't revived at full power, and because of that he has the edge. He's basically considering a full powered Tobirama a threat.

Tobirama's portrayal suffers in the fandom due to the heavily misinterpreted issue regarding Kinkaku/Ginkaku incident with Tobirama. While Minato usually gets boosted because of the hype he got from weaklings like Ay and such.
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As for SM, it's a non-factor here. Takes Minato too long to build it up and for that waiting he can't maintain it for long, along with him never actually mastering it in combat. Tobirama will feast on Minato if he tries to go into SM.

This will probably be a CQC heavy fight, with who can overwhelm the other, which would give Tobirama the edge due to his vast amounts of chakra.

Tobirama also has the ability to link himself to Minato's chakra and use Minato's own FTG tags. Whether Minato can do that is just as much of a guess as Tobirama being able to do the FTG based barriers.

@Xione, your post is perfect. I don't really have anything to add to it.

The fact that Tobirama is clearly smarter gives him an edge over Minato, if you ask me. Minato is faster, but no way Tobirama can't use it against him somehow, the guy literally came up with half of the jutsus. Against Obito, Tobirama was the one who fought the smartest. Minato was very helpful, but essentially only teleported and used Kurama. Clearly Kishi wanted to portray Hashirama as #1 strongest shinobi, and Tobirama as #2, with his brother being the only one who could stop him (blasting the room with chakra like y'all mentioned). Tobirama is the one who is more impressive even, Hashirama has the reincarnation bullshit.

In short, I think Tobirama can outsmart Minato, based on what they've shown. They're both my favourite fighters though.

Post automatically merged: Jun 17, 2020

Essentially Minato is only faster at space-time ninjutsu. Speed is great, but he has to kill him somehow. The Rasengan trick after teleporting with which he stopped young Obito won't work. And okay, he can do Sage Mode. But Tobirama has loads of other bullshit he can use against Minato, while knowing full well how space-time works. He can sense chakra perfectly, use his sword, incredible Water Release techniques. Teleportation only gets you so far.

In the Naruto game I play, Minato is utterly useless apart from teleporting, while my cute Tobirama is slower but can cause huge damage with his Water Releases swirling around :milaugh:

Cinera · Jun 18, 2020

@Draco, @Seraphoenix, @Bogard, @TheAncientCenturion, @SethTrollins.

@Marimo_420 you better not disappoint after hyping everyone up like this.
:ultimoji:

Seth · Jun 18, 2020

Cinera said:

@Draco, @Seraphoenix, @Bogard, @TheAncientCenturion, @SethTrollins.

@Marimo_420 you better not disappoint after hyping everyone up like this.
:ultimoji:

ZEHAHAHA

Versus Battle Minato vs Tobirama

Who wins?

Draw or toss up

Minato extreme difficulty

Minato high difficulty

Minato medium difficulty

Minato low difficulty

Tobirama extreme difficulty

Tobirama high difficulty

Tobirama medium difficulty

Tobirama low difficulty

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭

You can't win

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢

I will never forgive Oda

I will never forgive Oda

I will never forgive Oda

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭

x

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢