Powers & Abilities Misconception about Roc moves

[Paperchampion23]

All Roc moves are Gear 2 and Gear 3, not based on a Haki variant. The problem is, with AdvCoA/CoC, Oda has only shown Luffy use Roc moves or unnamed punches/kicks outside of Gear 4. It's purely by coincidence. The only time he ever names a new move based on Haki was due to the difference between a normal punch and Armament. I.e. Jet Gatling vs Hawk Gatling. Gigant Pistol vs Elephant Gun

"Roc" is a different concept entirely and not seen since Thriller Bark with "Jet Shell". It IS Gear 2 and Gear 3 together. I'll prove this below.

Red Roc is Red Hawk but larger (i.e. Flame application due to speed of the move). He blows up his fist like Gear 3, but it moves at the speed of Gear 2.

Compare to Red Hawk against Hody, it's the same, just bigger than Red Hawk.

Roc Gun was used last chapter. It's just Gear 2/Gear 3, but a normal punch (not fire):

While you don't see steam, you can see that
A) His arm is not fully drawn in the punch, characteristic of Gear 2

B) His arm is inflated, Characteristic of Gear 3

Finally, this chapter proves those points, with not only Roc Gatling below, but both the unnamed punch and kick he does this chapter (not the one to the face). Keep an eye out for steam/Luffy's arm not being drawn (due to speed) and his hand/legs being inflated:

Compare this to his typical Gear 3 elephant gun/gatling, it's much bigger and slower (no steam, shows the stem of Luffy's arms):

Hopefully really drives the point home that Roc moves are a Gear 2/Gear 3 mix, not exclusively AdvCoA/CoC by default. It just happens that he decided to use these with that Haki for this fight in particular.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Yes, the final attack Luffy used against kaido(the kick) makes it super obvious. First Luffy inflated his foot, and then he used G2 to launch the attack at high speed.

All G2 attacks are named after birds.
Red hawk
Hawk gatling
Hawk rifle
eagle bazooka

A Roc is a mythical bird that is said to be supernaturally large. Basically the giant eagles from lord of the rings. By this naming convention as well as visual indicators, the roc techniques have to be G2+G3

 

[PurpleSwordsman]

Interesting.
Then Oda didnt forget about this combination, good to see that.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Interesting.
Then Oda didnt forget about this combination, good to see that.

Yes. I should point out that by default Luffy renames moves based on Armament, except his base moves (they are the same or he calls out CoA before saying the move.

Easiest way to describe:

- Base: No change
- Gear 2: "Jet" w/o Haki. "Hawk"/Other Bird Moves w/ Haki
- Gear 3: "Gigant" w/o Haki. "Elephant"/"Grizzly" w/ Haki
- Gear 2 and 3: No hakiless variant outside of "Jet Shell". "Roc" is the haki variant

Gear 4 is a mix of Gorilla, Lion, Rhino, Snake moves. Snakeman dives into that more with Black Mamba and "Jet" snake moves.

Pretty complex lol

 

[PurpleSwordsman]

Yes. I should point out that by default Luffy renames moves based on Armament, except his base moves (they are the same or he calls out CoA before saying the move.

Easiest way to describe:

- Base: No change
- Gear 2: "Jet" w/o Haki. "Hawk"/Other Bird Moves w/ Haki
- Gear 3: "Gigant" w/o Haki. "Elephant"/"Grizzly" w/ Haki
- Gear 2 and 3: No hakiless variant outside of "Jet Shell". "Roc" is the haki variant

Gear 4 is a mix of Gorilla, Lion, Rhino, Snake moves. Snakeman dives into that more with Black Mamba and "Jet" snake moves.

Pretty complex lol

Yeah, Oda seems to put his mind at work more at these stuff than other more important sometimes kekw.


What I want to know now is if Luffy is using combination of AdCoA with AdCoC or simply AdCoC, since AdCoA was more like a shortcut/training tool to reach AdCoC for him (because I doubt that Big Mom used AdCoA + AdCoC in her punch against P1 were we saw that "bubble", since AdCoA seems like something unknown overall).

 

[Paperchampion23]

Yeah, Oda seems to put his mind at work more at these stuff than other more important sometimes kekw.


What I want to know now is if Luffy is using combination of AdCoA with AdCoC or simply AdCoC, since AdCoA was more like a shortcut/training tool to reach AdCoC for him (because I doubt that Big Mom used AdCoA + AdCoC in her punch against P1 were we saw that "bubble", since AdCoA seems like something unknown overall).

My thought in it is that it's always both (can't do flow conquerors without flowing armament) because you see that his arms are still black.

I think the only difference you'll probably find is whether or not he actually touches the target. That indicates Conquerors now, but its different from how Hyou used it or pre-timeskip Armament was shown off, but related in a way cause it's the initial application of Flow haki. Udon's arc is surprisingly important for how much people hate it lol.

 

[zzShinichi]

Does it seem weird to everybody that Luffy's new attacks in Onigashima have been mostly BIRD-related?

 

[Paperchampion23]

Does it seem weird to everybody that Luffy's new attacks in Onigashima have been mostly BIRD-related?

No that's kinda what I'm talking about the OP. Roc moves are in fact bigger Gear 2 moves, which were always bird references when using CoA.

My guess is Luffy felt Gear 2 was too "weak" and Gear 3 was too "slow", so this might be a compromise outside of Gear 4?

 

[PurpleSwordsman]

My thought in it is that it's always both (can't do flow conquerors without flowing armament) because you see that his arms are still black.

I think the only difference you'll probably find is whether or not he actually touches the target. That indicates Conquerors now, but its different from how Hyou used it or pre-timeskip Armament was shown off, but related in a way cause it's the initial application of Flow haki. Udon's arc is surprisingly important for how much people hate it lol.

The thing is, once you know how to flow the Haki outside the body via AdCoA (Hyogoro's training) and you know that Conqueror can be "coated" like normal Armament (Kaido's first TB), you use both knowledge and fuse it to get flowing coated Conqueror's. So there's no need to use AdCoA as well, much less when you know that its amount is limited.

And here comes Big Mom's example with P1 reinforcing my hypothesis, with the lack of knowledge it seems there is about AdCoA overall outside of the strongest Samurais in Wano/WCI (non existent in this last one).

 

[Finalbeta]

Roc Gatling sounds hype but it's impressive how Luffy is not managing to prove vastly efficient against Kaido thus far. Looks like he won't be able to compete properly until G4 is commonly pulled out 🧐

 

[U c 4 up da idly]

Yes. I should point out that by default Luffy renames moves based on Armament, except his base moves (they are the same or he calls out CoA before saying the move.

Easiest way to describe:

- Base: No change
- Gear 2: "Jet" w/o Haki. "Hawk"/Other Bird Moves w/ Haki
- Gear 3: "Gigant" w/o Haki. "Elephant"/"Grizzly" w/ Haki
- Gear 2 and 3: No hakiless variant outside of "Jet Shell". "Roc" is the haki variant

Gear 4 is a mix of Gorilla, Lion, Rhino, Snake moves. Snakeman dives into that more with Black Mamba and "Jet" snake moves.

Pretty complex lol

I hope the wiki is keeping track of this for Oda

 

[Herrera95]

What about G2 steam? How can we know Luffy is using G2 not only G3?

 

[Tai long]

Does it seem weird to everybody that Luffy's new attacks in Onigashima have been mostly BIRD-related?

G4 eagle man

 

[ConquistadoR]

He used it earlier before the battle began during his brief clash with Yamato as well. Oda didn't name it back then.

Spoiler

 

[Eustass Captain Cream]

I missed these steam attacks from gear 2 so much. They had so rare usage in the New World, that its refreshing to see them against a top tier.

The anime better do justice to these speed blitz moves

 

[L55]

Compare this to his typical Gear 3 elephant gun/gatling, it's much bigger and slower (no steam, shows the stem of Luffy's arms):

he used g3 gataling gun on dragon kaido and it was small af

 

[Paperchampion23]

What about G2 steam? How can we know Luffy is using G2 not only G3?

The OP specifies the difference. The only example "without" steam or fire is Roc Gun, but it shows you the perspective of Luffy's fist, not Luffy himself. I said that this doesn't matter, because the move is thrown so fast, you don't see the stem of Luffy's arm.

When he uses Elephant Gun/Gatling, you can see the stem of his arm when he's punching still. Another example is Grizzly magnum:

See how you can see his arms here (and the examples against Kaido in the OP)? With all of the Roc moves, you never see his arms. It's moving way faster.

 

[L55]

The OP specifies the difference. The only example "without" steam or fire is Roc Gun, but it shows you the perspective of Luffy's fist, not Luffy himself. I said that this doesn't matter, because the move is thrown so fast, you don't see the stem of Luffy's arm.

When he uses Elephant Gun/Gatling, you can see the stem of his arm when he's punching still. Another example is Grizzly magnum:

See how you can see his arms here (and the examples against Kaido in the OP)? With all of the Roc moves, you never see his arms. It's moving way faster.

 

[Paperchampion23]

he used g3 gataling gun on dragon kaido and it was small af

Read the OP please, you can still see Luffy's arms with Elephant Gatling and there's no steam or sense of speed.

Roc Gatling he has no arms and generates the Gear 2nd shockwave clouds.

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2022

You can see the shape of the arm with the fist. It's much slower.

Compare that to Roc Gun or Roc Gatling, not the same.

 

[Herrera95]

The OP specifies the difference. The only example "without" steam or fire is Roc Gun, but it shows you the perspective of Luffy's fist, not Luffy himself. I said that this doesn't matter, because the move is thrown so fast, you don't see the stem of Luffy's arm.

When he uses Elephant Gun/Gatling, you can see the stem of his arm when he's punching still. Another example is Grizzly magnum:

See how you can see his arms here (and the examples against Kaido in the OP)? With all of the Roc moves, you never see his arms. It's moving way faster.

Okay. Then what about Jet Culverin on 1025? Any thoughts? Not saying like it is G4 + G2 but for sure it is faster than G2 and we are seeing the whole arm.