Character Discussion Monster Trio Nomore - Monster Duo & GOAT Duo

#42
Really good read. I disagree that Sanji will be close to Luffy and Zoro, but the general argument of the crews dynamic is solid.
Either way, high quality content.
:luffydab:
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
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#43
I think there is no parallel here to any other crew because you cant find another Luffy and Zoro anywhere else.
The closest parallel is the God Valley team-up of Garp and Roger with reversed roles.
Roger, the swordsman, was Pirate King while Garp, the puncher, was a pirate hunter.

Luffy, the puncher, is the future PK while Zoro, the swordsman, is nicknamed the Pirate Hunter.
People constantly try to pull a parallel of Luffy and some great swordsman and it never works.
Luffy's parallel has always been Garp and perhaps his father but Garp has always paralleled him better.

There is no room in there for Sanji or any other 3rd wheel, everyone knows that.
He might parallel Shiki, in a way but not in combat style, unless he loses both legs.
The parallel might be through the greatest armada once he takes over the Germa66, if he does, I mean...
 
#44
And why would I not be honest about a discussion regarding cartoons? come on now bruh

Reread what I stated in the OT:


The phrase "monster trio" is derived from a fan translation. But it was later adopted by the fans particularly at FMI where Oda highlighted the three being monstrous compared to everybody else and then caribou commenting on them. So there isn't a canon of "Monster Trio" that exists, it's a concept of Oda having three really strong dudes in the SH pirates compared to everybody else... before Jinbei joined. Which he is breaking up, why? Because Jinbei has now joined the crew, who is on par with the likes of Sanji and much stronger than the "mid trio" under them. Jinbei the dude that was with Luffy through Impel Down -> Marineford -> Post-MF arc, and even helped him realize about his crew when Luffy was breaking down, when his crew wasn't with him. Jinbei the mf that Luffy in the same arc that Oda had Sanji & Jinbei team up against 1 enemy, proceeded to be asked by Luffy to join the crew. But he delayed it.


Then when he does join the crew..


Oda highlighting the 4 individuals who stand above the others in strength by a great margin being at the front.. Jinbei being one of them.



Then in the race to reach the top or help Luffy reach the top..Oda had Jinbei & Sanji tag team, giving them a panel that was a straight up throwback to Luffy & Zoro's at Whiskey Peak:




- King & Queen aren't a duo, they are a trio. King-Queen-Jack, like they literally have a name for the 3-man grouping called "All-Stars". It's simply the strongest 2 Kaido's subordinates vs strongest 2 of Luffy's subordinates. Which doesn't go against anything I've said so far. I never said we won't be getting Sanji/Zoro teamups, why would we not?? They're the right hand & left hand man of Luffy. Like hell we're gonna likely be getting teamups of Jinbei & Luffy probably too similar to pre-TS when they was together. Hell we've had a Ussop & Zoro team up at Ennis Lobby.. You're simplifying the entire discussion by bringing it down to simply teamups.



Furthermore, the only duo that I'm dubbing here the "monster duo" is something that I'm speculating on, it's not like i'm telling you "aye mf believe this cause this is a fact". However, the "GOAT duo" a phrase I dubbed for the duo of the guy who wants to be the GOAT swordsman and the guy who'll be the GOAT pirate... is something that's actually canon long before the phrase "M3" came into existence. Them boys been established as a duo since their meeting to Dracule confrontation. Which only cemented it more when they fought a serious all out fight at Whiskey Peak and equaled in it.





Ambition:
- a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work.

You're equating goals to ambition. Big difference in the two. Zoro & Luffy's ambitions were portrayed on par when both of them inspired Sanji by nearly giving up their lives for their goals. One can have a smaller goal but still carry equal ambition to achieve it as somebody with a bigger goal.

Which is highlighted in their will to live, when both through two gruesome events where willpower would be the only way for their body to make it out alive... The pain taking by the hands of Kuma and the surgery for Luffy by the hands of Ivankov. In both situations where their chances to survive were next to nill.

Zoro's goal:

Zoro's ultimate goal is not simply beating Mihawk. Zoro's goal has three stages, just as Luffy's does.

1st stage (pre-Kuina promise) - Become the strongest swordsman in the world
2nd stage (Kuina's promise) - Become the strongest swordsman EVER
3rd stage (post Kuina's death) - Become a swordsman so great that his name is renowned even in the heavens

Mihawk is the 1st stage of his goal. His ambition does not stop at simply being stronger than Mihawk, unless Mihawk happens to be stronger than every single swordsman that has existed, which I don't think he is. Since in my humble opinion, the guy who held one of the 12 supreme blades called Ace, Gol D. Roger, is a stronger swordsman than Mihawk.

Just like Pirate King is not Luffy's actual goal, but a part of his goal. We do not know of Luffy's actual goal, as it was off-paneled and Oda cut off from it. Now when you're comparing just beating Mihawk to becoming PK, yes it's a goal inferior to Luffy's. However, when you're comparing Strongest Swordsman EVER or Name renowned even in the heavens, then no Mihawk's statement does not apply here.



Rayleigh's ambition:
I have no reason to assume he had a grand ambition of his own. He was lazying about on his boat when Roger met him. Then after the Roger pirates disbanded he went to lazying around, basically what he was doing before. His character is pretty simple as far as we can tell, he's dedicated to his captain just as Ben Beckman is to Shanks & Killer is to Kid. If you have evidence to the contrary then feel free to point it out.



But yea this is just my opinion, if you don't believe it, that's fine. But just pointing out the spoilers don't "destroy" my claim as they don't counter anything related to why I called Zoro an anomaly. Nor do they counter the concept of M3 breaking up by Oda now. Only way that gets countered is if Jinbei's power development stops or is not keeping up with the others.

Furthermore you and others keep mentioning that Sanji & Zoro being "wings" counters what I'm saying.. but how??? Did I say Zoro is not the right hand man?? Nope Did I say Sanji is not the left hand man?? Nope. This doesn't counter my powerlevel parrallel point of Sanji = Rayleigh, Jinbei = Gaban. Were Gaban & Rayleigh called Roger's wings? Nope, or Heat & Killer been called Kid's wings? Nope.. only Sanji & Zoro have been called Luffy's wings. It also doesn't counter there not being a M3 anymore, because Wings is talking about the role Sanji & Zoro have towards Luffy, not the powerranking of the crew, which is what the concept of "M3" is based on.

What I said was realistically it's more like Luffy has two right hand men aka two Rayleighs except 1 of those right hand men aka Rayleigh is on par with Luffy hence an anomaly. This "wings" thing only supports my point in that when you add on the fact Sanji's character literally fits the mold of Beckman/Rayleigh/Killer the intelligent right hand men supporting their captains. Which further gets supported when Oda decided to throw in Sanji coming to Luffy's save back at Saboady in parrallel to Bepo (Law's right hand man) & Killer (Kid's right hand man) coming in for their captains.


But yeaa mane, that's it for me on this topic. Please do share your opinions regarding what I said. :fransuper:
Monster trio is a cannon term just look at @Kishido signature for proof
 
#54
The New Monster Trio:
- Luffy / Yamato / Adult Momo

Then
-Strong Duo:
Sanji/Zoro

Then the rest
:usoprice:

Waiting for people to get triggered and attack me LOL
Wing Monster duo Zoro and Sanji, same speed even tho Sanji was nerfed after facing 2 v 1 which was "a beat too hard" and Sanji damaging Queen who's physically stronger yea yea yea

Meanwhile Luffy and Yamato becomes Mythic Duo letsgooo
 
#55
Wing Monster duo Zoro and Sanji, same speed even tho Sanji was nerfed after facing 2 v 1 which was "a beat too hard" and Sanji damaging Queen who's physically stronger yea yea yea

Meanwhile Luffy and Yamato becomes Mythic Duo letsgooo
If adult Momo turned out stronger than Zoro and gave Kaido a bigger scar…I’d laugh so hard at the chaos in community
:moonwalk:
 
#58
But you mean from a power level perspective right? :josad:
Yea it all comes down to that :kayneshrug:seeing how long Yamato stalling Kaidou's directly, compared to how the others handle being Kaidou's direct target. Zoro saying he couldnt knock Kaidou down as the least thing to do, and couldn't take the wind from Kaidou's no-CoC club attack while Luffy took concentrated CoC club attacks directly without even damaged in the slightest, you know the deal about it. While Sanji tired and wounded from handling 2 commanders at once but still performed well against Queen despite the previous 2v1, implying him being close to Zoro, and Marco highlighting both wings further as being close in level.
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 ⚛️
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#59
Yea it all comes down to that :kayneshrug:seeing how long Yamato stalling Kaidou's directly, compared to how the others handle being Kaidou's direct target. Zoro saying he couldnt knock Kaidou down as the least thing to do, and couldn't take the wind from Kaidou's no-CoC club attack while Luffy took concentrated CoC club attacks directly without even damaged in the slightest, you know the deal about it. While Sanji tired and wounded from handling 2 commanders at once but still performed well against Queen despite the previous 2v1, implying him being close to Zoro, and Marco highlighting both wings further as being close in level.
Yamato is doing decently against Kaido but she will likely fall soon with Luffy jumping in. One of the best case scenarios for her is that she simply helps Luffy striking down Kaido but that is unlikely and there are better odds Zoro kicks in once he is done with King. Furthermore, what Zoro displayed on the rooftop was indeed gigantic, definitely placing him on Kaido's ballapark considering the way he tackled Hakai and how potent that attack was compared to Thunder Bagua, how massive his AP is whilst healthy in particular, his haki combat speed and also reflexes he displayed against both Dragon and Hybrid Kaido. I really typed so many essays on the subject matter. xd
 
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