Forum Event Moriah vs Borsalino (Owl vs Beta) FINISHED

Who was the better debator?

  • Beta

    Votes: 1 6.7%
  • Owl

    Votes: 14 93.3%

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
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#2
In this thread, I am going to discuss a One Piece character that is generally overlooked and underrated by the fandom.

He is one of the original Warlords who held his position unchallenged for over a decade. He is the Master of Shadows and the King of the Depths. He is a living abomination, a monster in the flesh, a nightmare made reality.

He is Gecko Moria.
But what exactly is Gecko Moria’s purpose in the story? What role does he play in the plot? Is there more than meets the eye to Moria?

Come with me and you shall see. :zehaha:
Design
The first clue as to the nature of Gecko Moria is in his design.
Full manga body shot.
Moria is one of the most disproportionate characters in One Piece.

His gibbon like arms are almost as long as his entire body and end in clawed fingers. He has a pear shaped body with nonexistent legs, a gaping mouth lined with sharp, pointed teeth that practically split his face in half which in turn is further exaggerated by the side burns that frame the sides of his head. He has a long neck the same width as his head, pointed ears, a pair of small horns and to top his physical appearance off, he has a long vertical scar that bisects him him from his forehead to right down his neck.

Just as Doflamingo’s design emphasises his flamboyant nature, Moria’s design emphasises his disturbing presence. Everything about Moria is designed to be aesthetically unpleasant and uncomfortable to look at. Even his clothing aids in this endeavor with his rounded, brightly coloured trousers clashing with his jagged, black gothic jacket.

Moria has multiple animal themes to go along with his design.
We shall take a look at Moria’s most prominent animal theme, the bat.
In many cultures, bats are creatures that are associated with darkness, death, decay, disease, witchcraft and malevolence. In short, they are considered to be a bad omen. It is their ominous nature that lends itself to Moria’s character but more on that later.

Moria’s secondary animal theme is that of geckos/newts. Both geckos and newts are nocturnal i.e. creatures of the night. Newts however have a nasty side to them in that many species are toxic and have evolved to display bright colours such as oranges, reds and yellows. This is called Aposematism and it’s purpose is to serve as a warning.

Orange trousers with yellow patterning and red hair. Coincidence, I think not. :sanmoji:

The last part of Moria’s design is the cross that he always has on him.
While a cross in of itself symbolisms many things such as hope, Moria’s cross is twisted with sharp, wicked, curved ends, as if it is to represent something that was once hopeful which has now fallen. :kizabat:

So Moria’s design reflects his disturbing presence, his ominous nature, his purpose as a warning and his fallen nature. So how does this all fit into the story of One Piece?

Purpose as an antagonist.
There are quite a few things I can say in regards to this but to keep it short, Moria’s main purpose is to serve as a foil to two characters in particular.

Brook
Brook and Moria are two sides of the same coin.

Both are pirate captains that suffered a devastating defeat in the past that resulted in the death of their entire respective crews.

Yet despite their tragic circumstances being exactly the same, they have quite the opposite outlook on life.

For example, Moria seemingly cares little at the prospect of his death despite his openly stated desire to become the Pirate King.
Brook by comparison fears death.
Brook states this in spite of the crippling isolation he was forced to suffer for decades.
So how did Brook managed to endure his decades of isolation surrounded by the corpses of his crew while Moria has been unable to come to terms with his grief?

The answer is simple. Brook still had someone left in this world for him to prevent himself falling completely into darkness and despair as Moria did.

Luffy.
Though one might not think it, another character that Luffy shares quite a few similarities with Moria.
Gluttony.


A shared intention to be Pirate King (and a habit of publicly declaring it unnecessarily often).
A habit of placing absolute trust in their subordinates.
They even have similar laughs and bad habits.
It is heavily implied that Moria was very much once like Luffy until the tragedy that befell his crew.
Moria even goes so far as to warn Luffy with an ominous prediction of what awaits him if he heads to the New World. Guess what happens?
Just like Brook, Luffy also had a guiding light to pull him out of the darkness of despair.
This is what makes Moria all the more disturbing. The fact that he once was like Luffy, was like Brook but fell and became such a twisted individual. The fact that this monstrous individual acts and behaves so eerily similar to the protagonist.

Moria serves as a warning to both the Straw Har crew and the audience. He warns the Straw Hats of their impending defeat and warns the audience of what (supposedly) beloved characters like Luffy and Brook could have become if there was no one to save them from their despair by serving as an example.


Moria is a shadow to Luffy, to Brook and a shadow of his former self. After all what is a shadow but simply a twisted, formless, faceless part of us that is forever trapped in darkness no matter how much we try to drown ourselves in the light?
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd
.
#3
Kizaru, well renowned as Lightzaru, or alternatively, Litzaru, is one of the most valuable gifts Oda sensei graciously bestowed us with, nourishing our souls with ardour burning within our hearts.

Eyes watering whilst contemplating his glory.


This single above picture is a display of unfettered vitalism, a noumenon to all superhuman phenomena. 'Not breaking a sweat' would have proven a raunchy definition, and this man instead warrants a much highter-flown resonance.


Electromagnetic grandness, magnificent photons, quanta of light. A benevolent God-like being, never struggling, not once in distress throughout this whole not-too-short manga, obeying to his own unclear justice and nothing else.

Unrelenting dazzling beams, striking at our minds which find it rough to plumb the depths of this character.

He is one of a kind, and no one is as kind as he is, going so soft with Luffy:


This man is on a first-name basis with the concept of knight in shining armor. Nothing proves frightening enough for him and he expresses his mood via playfulness:


The Sun had never shone as strongly:

 
#4
Since my opening post managed to reach Tim Burton levels of dark brooding (the post just wrote itself that way) then I shall endeavour to make this post more lighthearted. :smithnie:

There is one aspect of Moria that is often overlooked (in addition to literally every single other overlooked aspect to his character).

Moria is a Grade A professional troll. So in this thread I shall establish why Gecko Trollia is a far superior troll to the low effort wannabe that is Boresalino. :goatasure:

Go, go, Gecko! :funky:

I) When Moria trolls, he trolls from the front. Even when Moria attacks from a strategically advantageous position, he announces his presence like a boss because he wants to look his opponent in the eye while he trolls them.
What does Boresalino do?
A cheap, low effort backside surprise. Smart? Perhaps. The style of a true troll? Absolutely not. :sanmoji:

Troll count: Moria 1, Boresalino 0

II) Moria has mastered both the art of smack talk and the art of casually asserting dominance.

Just look at how effortlessly Moria shows Luffy his place in the food chain while insulting him straight to his face the entire time.

This casual mad lad is literally humming in the protagonist’s face. :finally:

Then he tricks Luffy because the fool is not even worth his time. :arnoling:

Kishishishishishi. :rolaugh:
What does Boresalino do?
All brute force, no style, no imagination, no finesse. :goatasure:

Troll count: Moria 2, Boresalino 0

III) Moria allows his opponent to feel a sliver of hope but then reveal that they never had a chance to begin with. :catsure:
See Section II) for panels of Kizaru’s most unrefined “trolling” tactics. :mihugh:

If Moria is a majestic maestro that weaves a web of despair on the canvas of the battlefield with a fine paint brush then Kizaru is the uncouth ignoramus that covers the entire canvas with a yard brush and wrecks everything. :watchout:

Troll count: Moria 3, Boresalino 0

IV) Last but most importantly...
Troll count: Moria 69, Boresalino 0

So let it be known that Moria is a true troll amongst trolls and an objectively good antagonist, that deserves to be included amongst the best OP antagonists.:smithnie:
Kizaru, well renowned as Lightzaru, or alternatively, Litzaru, is one of the most valuable gifts Oda sensei graciously bestowed us with, nourishing our souls with ardour burning within our hearts.

Eyes watering whilst contemplating his glory.


This single above picture is a display of unfettered vitalism, a noumenon to all superhuman phenomena. 'Not breaking a sweat' would have proven a raunchy definition, and this man instead warrants a much highter-flown resonance.


Electromagnetic grandness, magnificent photons, quanta of light. A benevolent God-like being, never struggling, not once in distress throughout this whole not-too-short manga, obeying to his own unclear justice and nothing else.

Unrelenting dazzling beams, striking at our minds which find it rough to plumb the depths of this character.

He is one of a kind, and no one is as kind as he is, going so soft with Luffy:


This man is on a first-name basis with the concept of knight in shining armor. Nothing proves frightening enough for him and he expresses his mood via playfulness:


The Sun had never shone as strongly:

Alright, so you apparently ate a thesaurus for breakfast. Good to know. :yearight:

So anything you want to say about Kizaru as a character? His purpose in the story? His role as an antagonist? How you believe him to be a superior character/antagonist to Moria in anyway?
Post automatically merged:

That single post of mine embodies total perfection.


Whatever I further entertain would prove futile.
So Beta apparently has no intention of issuing a response to my suggestion that he elaborates on his opinion of Kizaru.
So anything you want to say about Kizaru as a character? His purpose in the story? His role as an antagonist? How you believe him to be a superior character/antagonist to Moria in anyway?
So I asked the Mods if I could quote him again so I could give him a full response (which I feel obligated to give) to the only post he has made in order to make a double post that would end the debate on some note and they agreed with my request. So here we go.
Kizaru, well renowned as Lightzaru, or alternatively, Litzaru, is one of the most valuable gifts Oda sensei graciously bestowed us with, nourishing our souls with ardour burning within our hearts.

Eyes watering whilst contemplating his glory.


This single above picture is a display of unfettered vitalism, a noumenon to all superhuman phenomena. 'Not breaking a sweat' would have proven a raunchy definition, and this man instead warrants a much highter-flown resonance.

So this entire section is all waxing lyrical about how cool Kizaru is but offers no objective analysis of his character.
Electromagnetic grandness, magnificent photons, quanta of light. A benevolent God-like being, never struggling, not once in distress throughout this whole not-too-short manga, obeying to his own unclear justice and nothing else.

Unrelenting dazzling beams, striking at our minds which find it rough to plumb the depths of this character.
So here we have a couple of claims alluding to Kizaru supposedly having depth but no elaboration or explanation towards this claim.
He is one of a kind, and no one is as kind as he is, going so soft with Luffy:

Firstly, the picture does not work for me. I do not know if that is just my phone or if this is a general problem.

Secondly, when was Kizaru ever kind to Luffy? During Marineford he straight impaled Luffy with light beam, called him weak to his face, punted him like a football and then called him trash.
That combined with his willingness to slowly prepare to execute pirates who are down for the count such as Hawkins and Zoro, paints a picture of an individual who is more sadistic than kind.
This man is on a first-name basis with the concept of knight in shining armor. Nothing proves frightening enough for him and he expresses his mood via playfulness:


The Sun had never shone as strongly:

This is just post filler.
 
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