General & Others Oda is underestimated as a writer

#1
I just watched a few theories on One Piece, including this and this and the amount of hints and foreshadowing Oda created throughout decades is actually astonishing. Pieces of several hundreds, up to 700, 800 chapters are fitting together to form a bigger picture, he gives us hints a decade in advance (like Sabo's existence and Sabo being even alive) and makes use of a lot of mythology and plays excellently with numbers. Many of those things so subtle most of the people won't even notice.

As far as I know @Salah WG has a whole list of interesting theories and hints waiting to be explored.

So I think people are too harsh over minuscule things related to power levels/power ups or certain fights. I hardly believe Oda "writes himself into a corner" given how much he plans and foreshadows. I don't think he does things on a whim. Mostly at least. If he does, it's related to fights, not to the story itself.

Plus, I'm not a heavy Manga reader, but how does One Piece compare to other big Shounen who have many hundreds of chapters, close to a 1000? I know Naruto, I know Bleach partly. And I know that sooner or later, the Mangaka fucks up, since it's too hard to put such a vast amount of chapters together perfectly. It's the same with series that have many seasons (Game of Thrones, Supernatural, etc.). Some of it is fan service too I think. Name me one Manga you would consider master piece that has nearly as many chapters. Of course it's hard to compare a 1000+ Manga like One Piece with finished Mangas that might have 100, 200, 300 chapters, since it's much easier to make a consistent story with such little chapters.

So I think that overall, no need to be too harsh on Oda.

@Sentinel @playa4321 @Finalbeta @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @Bogard @Red Admiral @MarineHQ62 etc
 
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#2
The problem with "hints" is that:

1) There's no way to analyze whether those are actual hints or retrospective seeds Oda plants here and there and he just improvises with later in the story.

2) He foreshadows way, way, way less than the fandom believes. When the author consistently comments on many things he basically makes up during serialization, I find it hard to speak of a master foreshadower.

3) Many of them can't even be reviewed as of now because they haven't come into fruiction, and another good bunch will never do as they were fantasies of readers.

Oda is a good mixer of popular culture first and foremost, his obsession with numbers damage the actual pacing of the story, and as a writer he has had good ideas but has screwed up big time too and overall feels lackluster in terms of the potential of his own narrative elemments (almost feeling like he rarely makes full use of what he could with the ideas he's working with).

For a mangaka with an absurd philosophy of work, his creative process is quite okay, but as time goes it just feels like he's increasingly writing his story with sleep deprivation. I hope his ideas for the final arcs, which I assume were there for a long time, will be as good as they should be.
 
#3
I have to agree in that the common and pretentious thing to do with any product is to claim that something "you probably haven't even heard of" is way better. That's how it works, something less popular is less commercial and more pure. Lol. In the case of One Piece this usually extends to sibling shonen and for whatever reason seinen and other types that don't really compete directly.

By no means is Oda "the best" but by all means, someone please show me in depth discussions and theories on Series B to compare efforts in world building.
 

Adam 🍎

Pretty Boy
#5
Compare Oda to any Western writer thats worth a damn and you will see just how mediocre Oda is

Oda is using basics of basics when it comes to storytelling and his work is most reminiscent of new Star Wars and GoT last seasons

Do you know how easy is to set up a foreshadow? It is literally the most basic tehnique in writing - Chekov gun

And this is why IMO why writing in OP fell post TS - oda started using same.old tricks and recycle plot
 
#6
The problem with "hints" is that:

1) There's no way to analyze whether those are actual hints or retrospective seeds Oda plants here and there and he just improvises with later in the story.

2) He foreshadows way, way, way less than the fandom believes. When the author consistently comments on many things he basically makes up during serialization, I find it hard to speak of a master foreshadower.

3) Many of them can't even be reviewed as of now because they haven't come into fruiction, and another good bunch will never do as they were fantasies of readers.

Oda is a good mixer of popular culture first and foremost, his obsession with numbers damage the actual pacing of the story, and as a writer he has had good ideas but has screwed up big time too and overall feels lackluster in terms of the potential of his own narrative elemments (almost feeling like he rarely makes full use of what he could with the ideas he's working with).

For a mangaka with an absurd philosophy of work, his creative process is quite okay, but as time goes it just feels like he's increasingly writing his story with sleep deprivation. I hope his ideas for the final arcs, which I assume were there for a long time, will be as good as they should be.
Going by your own points 1-3, isn't it fair to say that you don't really "get" his numerology? Most if not all things we only get in retrospect, we're often unaware of what would be a quality clue ("Zoro's hat is backwards in colorspread 365!"). Few if any advanced ideas are ever discovered by fandom.
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Compare Oda to any Western writer thats worth a damn and you will see just how mediocre Oda is

Oda is using basics of basics when it comes to storytelling and his work is most reminiscent of new Star Wars and GoT last seasons

Do you know how easy is to set up a foreshadow? It is literally the most basic tehnique in writing - Chekov gun

And this is why IMO why writing in OP fell post TS - oda started using same.old tricks and recycle plot
Who in western comics is shitting on Oda? Lol. Please point to some work for hire, I beg you.
 
#7
Going by your own points 1-3, isn't it fair to say that you don't really "get" his numerology? Most if not all things we only get in retrospect, we're often unaware of what would be a quality clue ("Zoro's hat is backwards in colorspread 365!"). Few if any advanced ideas are ever discovered by fandom
In terms of numerology I don't really care that much, I find it to be trivial and commonly damaging for the actual story, especially when Oda can't come up with any good filler for the time he spends to fit his numbers.

Regarding other clues, those who I believe are actual foreshadowing were catchable with relative ease (wonder why Whitebeard was named Newgate, or what fruit will Kaido have, or who will Oden be saving from touching the hot oil, or who will be the shipwright if not the guy looking almost exactly like Luffy's drawing, etc.). Others are too obscure to be understood from the start because we lack information (he obviously expected to introduce the SMILE plot considering Doflamingo's statement, but since we had no meaning associated to the term "SMILE" we couldn't infere anything). And others are more than likely retconnings of seeds with no deeper meaning or just for the sake of filling the panels (Bartolomeo's name, the crossed S in Ace's tattoo, etc.).

There's also the problem that I'm sure that Oda even consciously plants "bad seeds" intended to mislead the reader because that way it's easier to subvert expectations, as he likes to do from time to time.
 
#8
Compare Oda to any Western writer thats worth a damn and you will see just how mediocre Oda is

Oda is using basics of basics when it comes to storytelling and his work is most reminiscent of new Star Wars and GoT last seasons

Do you know how easy is to set up a foreshadow? It is literally the most basic tehnique in writing - Chekov gun

And this is why IMO why writing in OP fell post TS - oda started using same.old tricks and recycle plot
To be fair, the diference in Western writers to any mangaka (except Togashi xD), its the difference of time that they have. to finish a chapter/book/comic/etc. Especially the mangakas of long-runners series, that its barely impossible to not down into a repetitive plot without sacrifice his characters personalities, or recur to a cliches.
 
#10
In terms of numerology I don't really care that much, I find it to be trivial and commonly damaging for the actual story, especially when Oda can't come up with any good filler for the time he spends to fit his numbers.

Regarding other clues, those who I believe are actual foreshadowing were catchable with relative ease (wonder why Whitebeard was named Newgate, or what fruit will Kaido have, or who will Oden be saving from touching the hot oil, or who will be the shipwright if not the guy looking almost exactly like Luffy's drawing, etc.). Others are too obscure to be understood from the start because we lack information (he obviously expected to introduce the SMILE plot considering Doflamingo's statement, but since we had no meaning associated to the term "SMILE" we couldn't infere anything). And others are more than likely retconnings of seeds with no deeper meaning or just for the sake of filling the panels (Bartolomeo's name, the crossed S in Ace's tattoo, etc.).

There's also the problem that I'm sure that Oda even consciously plants "bad seeds" intended to mislead the reader because that way it's easier to subvert expectations, as he likes to do from time to time.
What I'm saying is, how are you not "fandom"? You talk about the game he plays with numbers, but what proof do you have that you're actually seeing patterns that he's following versus coincidence or nothing at all, as you are saying often happens? Gear something in a chapter ending with 87, another gear something later in a chapter ending with 87... okay. You think he wrote a bunch of extra chapters just to make that happen?

That's just an example of the same fandom you mention, I don't know which examples you would use for your point. are you considering stuff like Ohara recently talking about the connections between 722 and 727? That sort of fandom stuff doesn't have to be true at all, but it's damn fun to some of us because it's well thought out. Just like the existence of One Piece, it's not about the destination but the fun in getting there, you know?

Oh btw you said a few other things as hints and like, show me just how early you guessed Franky was that drawing lmao. NO ONE got that shit until he was already past the Sea Train.
 

Garp the Fist

Bwahahahaha
#11
People seem personally affronted that a guy whose stated aim is to write and draw a fun weekly comic for teenage boys isn’t firing out Tolstoy level literature (plus drawings) lol. Or didn’t plan out in 1997 every single aspect of his story.

The man is brilliant for what he does. Is he perfect, hell no, but who is?

He makes up a hell of a lot on the fly, but that’s just the nature of the business he’s in, and a lot of writing in general.
 
#12
Compare Oda to any Western writer thats worth a damn and you will see just how mediocre Oda is

Oda is using basics of basics when it comes to storytelling and his work is most reminiscent of new Star Wars and GoT last seasons

Do you know how easy is to set up a foreshadow? It is literally the most basic tehnique in writing - Chekov gun

And this is why IMO why writing in OP fell post TS - oda started using same.old tricks and recycle plot
Are we comparing it to modern western work? Because shit is trash written by dudes who believe we’re supposed to bow down to their work
 

Seth

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢
#13
:milaugh:

Sorry for disrespecting ur thread like that but I'm not interested in reading anything u said after the title.

It's just fucking mind-blowing that people like that still exist.

Oh, look! Flying Dragon in Punk Hazard.

Momo turns into Dragon lolololo Foreshadowing GODA.

Just no. Sorry. Fuck this shit and fuck Oda.
 
#15
:milaugh:

Sorry for disrespecting ur thread like that but I'm not interested in reading anything u said after the title.

It's just fucking mind-blowing that people like that still exist.

Oh, look! Flying Dragon in Punk Hazard.

Momo turns into Dragon lolololo Foreshadowing GODA.

Just no. Sorry. Fuck this shit and fuck Oda.
Yet you are here and complaining. Oda is polarizing isn't he.

:myman:
 

Seth

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢
#16
Yet you are here and complaining. Oda is polarizing isn't he.

:myman:
Would say you ain't wrong but it's not exactly as you think it is. The only thing that holds me back from dropping it is my bad habit when it comes to starting a series.

I finish what I started as a reader. That's about it. Crying about the plot and characters development is a side thing.
 
I

Indigo

#18
I just watched a few theories on One Piece, including this and this and the amount of hints and foreshadowing Oda created throughout decades is actually astonishing. Pieces of several hundreds, up to 700, 800 chapters are fitting together to form a bigger picture, he gives us hints a decade in advance (like Sabo's existence and Sabo being even alive) and makes use of a lot of mythology and plays excellently with numbers. Many of those things so subtle most of the people won't even notice.

As far as I know @Salah WG has a whole list of interesting theories and hints waiting to be explored.

So I think people are too harsh over minuscule things related to power levels/power ups or certain fights. I hardly believe Oda "writes himself into a corner" given how much he plans and foreshadows. I don't think he does things on a whim. Mostly at least. If he does, it's related to fights, not to the story itself.

Plus, I'm not a heavy Manga reader, but how does One Piece compare to other big Shounen who have many hundreds of chapters, close to a 1000? I know Naruto, I know Bleach partly. And I know that sooner or later, the Mangaka fucks up, since it's too hard to put such a vast amount of chapters together perfectly. It's the same with series that have many seasons (Game of Thrones, Supernatural, etc.). Some of it is fan service too I think. Name me one Manga you would consider master piece that has nearly as many chapters. Of course it's hard to compare a 1000+ Manga like One Piece with finished Mangas that might have 100, 200, 300 chapters, since it's much easier to make a consistent story with such little chapters.

So I think that overall, no need to be too harsh on Oda.

@Sentinel @playa4321 @Finalbeta @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @Bogard @Red Admiral @MarineHQ62 etc
Unless this is all Kin'emon and Denjiro all over again, Oda never planed any of it, it was just coincidence and he ran with it.

In fact, that Kin'emon moment might've been Oda telling us that.

:myman::milaugh:

I'm just kidding of course, there's no way all that shit is coincidence, still funny to think about tho.
 
#19
As far as I know, people are mainly upset when it comes to power ups. Like Luffy getting FS so fast, learning advanced CoA/CoC and surpassing Yonko level characters at the age of 19. But that's the same with all shounen. The kids become god tier EOS.

But compare the complexity of the world and the pieces Oda built throughout the entire series with other Mangaka. Of course many things will be thought out during the process (like the appearance of the Shichibukai), but Oda himself said he knew how One piece will end since chapter 1. Hence many obvious hints and numerology that spans over decades and fits so neatly.

Naruto and Bleach weren't nearly as thought out. Like Naruto ended with Black Zetsu being the bigger bad who fabricated the entire Uchiha and Senju thing so they could fight Rikudo Sennin's Mom. No real complexity in the story whatsoever, where you would have to connect a lot of dots.
 

Seth

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢
#20
As far as I know, people are mainly upset when it comes to power ups. Like Luffy getting FS so fast, learning advanced CoA/CoC and surpassing Yonko level characters at the age of 19. But that's the same with all shounen. The kids become god tier EOS.

But compare the complexity of the world and the pieces Oda built throughout the entire series with other Mangaka. Of course many things will be thought out during the process (like the appearance of the Shichibukai), but Oda himself said he knew how One piece will end since chapter 1. Hence many obvious hints and numerology that spans over decades and fits so neatly.

Naruto and Bleach weren't nearly as thought out. Like Naruto ended with Black Zetsu being the bigger bad who fabricated the entire Uchiha and Senju thing so they could fight Rikudo Sennin's Mom. No real complexity in the story whatsoever, where you would have to connect a lot of dots.
I don't like the storytelling post-timeskip.

It's literally shit to me. Oda is not doing anything new and you can basically decode what will happen next aside from some minor changes like Raizo's reveal on Zou or 957.
 
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