Questions & Mysteries Oda's pattern of "teasing" Zoro's full strength

#1
After reading Fenaker's thread about whether or not rooftop Ashura was utilizing ACoC or not, I wanted to discuss Oda's pattern of always leaving it up in the air what Zoro would/could have done in certain situations.

We know even as far back as the Buggy arc (LOL) that Oda tends to have Zoro fight with handicaps. However, it's not just at times where he's heavily injured/held back that Oda seems to purposely make us wonder what a 100% Zoro would do against strong enemies.

Even in Arlong Park, we knew that Sanji also had pretty major injuries after fighting Kuroobi and still being affected from having been in the water. But Oda makes it a point to emphasize Zoro's Mihawk injury and have Arlong even say that it would be in his best interests to not let Zoro live. Think about that. Zoro did NOTHING that would have made Arlong afraid of him besides the simple fact that he was still alive in the first place. This obviously makes you wonder what Zoro would have done in a 1v1 against Arlong had he been at full strength.

Fast forward to Enies Lobby, and we have Zoro basically stalling Kaku/Jabura in a 1v2 as he was handcuffed to Usopp. While he didn't really sustain any injuries during those chapters, he also didn't really inflict damage either. Again, you start wondering, how much damage would Zoro have done if he was at full strength?

Then we have thriller bark, where Zoro had his famous bout with Kuma. But as Kuma noted consistently, Zoro was already on the verge of death by this point, but he still managed to inflict decent damage to Kuma with shishi sonson, and of course we subsequently had the nothing happened moment. All of that, again, makes you question how a 1v1 of Zoro vs Kuma would have looked like had it been proper. The injuries he sustained here even overlapped into Sabaody, where we had another sight of him fighting at probably his lowest point since Mihawk.

Fast forward to post-TS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Zoro did not sustain even a single wound in the New World until his clash with Fujitora in Dressrosa. Leading up to this, we had Zoro one-shotting Hody, Hyouzou, and Monet in all of like 2 seconds. So when Zoro briefly clashed with Fujitora, we all know he would have lost probably very badly. But just thinking about the previous Zoro encounters and the way he resisted the gravity well, it just makes you imagine how much damage Zoro would have been able to do if he got to continue fighting.

Even after basically walking all over Pica, Zoro's strength seemed so ambiguous that it had us wondering how he would have done against Doflamingo.

Then we get to ROOFTOP. And in chapter 1002, every supernova on the roof besides Zoro (So Luffy, Kid, Law and Killer) got in at least some attack/hit against Kaido. But when it got to Zoro's turn, we had him using Hiryu Kaen to cleanly slice off the horn of the skull. And it's just like, how much would that have done to Kaido if it actually hit him? You can say that it wouldn't have done anything, but at that point, why did Oda have it miss? Even with his last attack on the rooftop, Oda made sure to have Zoro in critical condition before issuing it.

Are we ever going to get a Zoro fight where he goes all out with no repercussions/handicaps? The only one I can think of in the whole series is the Mr. 1 fight. Why does Oda insist on "teasing" Zoro without showing us how he would fight at 100%?
 
#2
Are we ever going to get a Zoro fight where he goes all out with no repercussions/handicaps?
Mihawk, Zoro is at a power level that anything he does is devastating, Oda has been holding Zoro back with haki and Asura for a reason.
He gets to his fight with King without getting a single power up in the entirety of the post timeskip and his one and only PU is something that only the strongest can use.
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#6
So when Zoro briefly clashed with Fujitora, we all know he would have lost probably very badly.
He wouldnt lose to Fujitora. He fought him after that on equal ground and when Fujitora got rid of Luffy, Zoro was going in for 3rd time.
Why does Oda insist on "teasing" Zoro without showing us how he would fight at 100%?
Because Zoro is too strong, always has been. Oda has to either injure him, take his swords away or make the opponent uncuttable.
 
#7
It's pretty much a trend in every arc lol except, like, Alabasta.

I'll also mention two more that I can remember:

  • In Syrup Village, after dealing with the Nyan Duo, Zoro turned his blade towards Kuro and threatened him. Luffy obviously interrupted soon after (iirc), and Zoro went to deal with some jacked up cat instead. Left us wondering how he'd have fared against the big boss.
  • In Whiskey Peak, Oda made Luffy and Zoro go head to head, toe to toe against each other, so much so that they both proclaimed "Let's see who's better, sword or fists", but then the fight got interrupted. Had us wondering how good WP Zoro would've done against WP Luffy.
 
#8
It's pretty much a trend in every arc lol except, like, Alabasta.

I'll also mention two more that I can remember:

  • In Syrup Village, after dealing with the Nyan Duo, Zoro turned his blade towards Kuro and threatened him. Luffy obviously interrupted soon after (iirc), and Zoro went to deal with some jacked up cat instead. Left us wondering how he'd have fared against the big boss.
  • In Whiskey Peak, Oda made Luffy and Zoro go head to head, toe to toe against each other, so much so that they both proclaimed "Let's see who's better, sword or fists", but then the fight got interrupted. Had us wondering how good WP Zoro would've done against WP Luffy.
True, I forgot about those. I also just remembered the Zoro vs Killer fight where they were both missing weapons. I mean I guess that doesn't really count too much because Zoro defeated him anyway
Post automatically merged:

Mihawk, Zoro is at a power level that anything he does is devastating, Oda has been holding Zoro back with haki and Asura for a reason.
He gets to his fight with King without getting a single power up in the entirety of the post timeskip and his one and only PU is something that only the strongest can use.
That's also true. I know a lot of people complain about Luffy having much more instances of growth in combat compared to Zoro in the post-TS, which has them criticizing Zoro fighting a YC1 as his first difficult 1v1 of the New World. But the fact that he breezed through every other arc is precisely why he gets King here. It just wouldn't make sense for him to fight anything less honestly. TBH this just makes me wish that the whole crew went to WCI and just wrecked Big Mom's crew without actually fighting Big Mom herself, and then just took Sanji and dipped.

Also, we know almost nothing about Zoro's training with Mihawk besides the fact that he learned haki towards the beginning of the training. So there's no real way of gauging how strong he actually was straight out of the TS
 
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#10
ast forward to post-TS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Zoro did not sustain even a single wound in the New World until his clash with Fujitora in Dressrosa


Even after basically walking all over Pica, Zoro's strength seemed so ambiguous that it had us wondering how he would have done against Doflamingo.


Later:



I know Birdcage was plotcage but just simply based on how Zoro was struggling against Doffy's most powerful strings, Zoro was mid-diff material for Doffy at worst.
 
#13
We can give the benefit of the doubt to Fuji since he was taking a gamble on pirates to save Dressrosa and what not. But I agree that was pretty bad portrayal for Fuji as well.
Yeah, I'm not implying that I fully believe DR Zoro would have beaten Doflamingo, because even Luffy had help in that fight. But I just find it interesting that Oda almost purposely avoids showing what full-strength Zoro can actually do
 
#15
Yeah, I'm not implying that I fully believe DR Zoro would have beaten Doflamingo, because even Luffy had help in that fight. But I just find it interesting that Oda almost purposely avoids showing what full-strength Zoro can actually do
Basically what Arondight said. Luffy and Zoro have the Roger-Rayleigh dynamic so they're supposed to be the strongest of the crew but the Zoro and Sanji dynamic like Rayleigh-Scopper where both are portrayed to be also 'close in power.' Yet with all the spotlight Luffy has, it's hard to make Zoro look as strong as Luffy without having Luffy's same trials (since Zoro doesn't get enough panel time) so Oda just has Zoro in "some form of handicap but not really" type of situation where Zoro can still struggle and win, while some readers will think "but Zoro was handicapped so maybe that's not all he has." And some other readers will think "his handicap doesn't change anything so he is closer to Sanji."

Right now he is fighting King with magic mink medicine that supposedly heals him at 100% yet he will face double the repercussions after some time (so it doesn't, or shouldn't, affect his current performance). Some fans think he is truly at 100%, some don't. It's the same pattern all over again.
 
#16
Basically what Arondight said. Luffy and Zoro have the Roger-Rayleigh dynamic so they're supposed to be the strongest of the crew but the Zoro and Sanji dynamic like Rayleigh-Scopper where both are portrayed to be also 'close in power.' Yet with all the spotlight Luffy has, it's hard to make Zoro look as strong as Luffy without having Luffy's same trials (since Zoro doesn't get enough panel time) so Oda just has Zoro in "some form of handicap but not really" type of situation where Zoro can still struggle and win, while some readers will think "but Zoro was handicapped so maybe that's not all he has." And some other readers will think "his handicap doesn't change anything so he is closer to Sanji."

Right now he is fighting King with magic mink medicine that supposedly heals him at 100% yet he will face double the repercussions after some time (so it doesn't, or shouldn't, affect his current performance). Some fans think he is truly at 100%, some don't. It's the same pattern all over again.
Yeah, I agree with everything you said. I'd also like to add that even if the mink medicine does actually put him at 100% strength, 1033 definitely made it clear that Enma was giving him a handicap in some way until the final few panels.
 
#18
After reading Fenaker's thread about whether or not rooftop Ashura was utilizing ACoC or not, I wanted to discuss Oda's pattern of always leaving it up in the air what Zoro would/could have done in certain situations.

We know even as far back as the Buggy arc (LOL) that Oda tends to have Zoro fight with handicaps. However, it's not just at times where he's heavily injured/held back that Oda seems to purposely make us wonder what a 100% Zoro would do against strong enemies.

Even in Arlong Park, we knew that Sanji also had pretty major injuries after fighting Kuroobi and still being affected from having been in the water. But Oda makes it a point to emphasize Zoro's Mihawk injury and have Arlong even say that it would be in his best interests to not let Zoro live. Think about that. Zoro did NOTHING that would have made Arlong afraid of him besides the simple fact that he was still alive in the first place. This obviously makes you wonder what Zoro would have done in a 1v1 against Arlong had he been at full strength.

Fast forward to Enies Lobby, and we have Zoro basically stalling Kaku/Jabura in a 1v2 as he was handcuffed to Usopp. While he didn't really sustain any injuries during those chapters, he also didn't really inflict damage either. Again, you start wondering, how much damage would Zoro have done if he was at full strength?

Then we have thriller bark, where Zoro had his famous bout with Kuma. But as Kuma noted consistently, Zoro was already on the verge of death by this point, but he still managed to inflict decent damage to Kuma with shishi sonson, and of course we subsequently had the nothing happened moment. All of that, again, makes you question how a 1v1 of Zoro vs Kuma would have looked like had it been proper. The injuries he sustained here even overlapped into Sabaody, where we had another sight of him fighting at probably his lowest point since Mihawk.

Fast forward to post-TS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Zoro did not sustain even a single wound in the New World until his clash with Fujitora in Dressrosa. Leading up to this, we had Zoro one-shotting Hody, Hyouzou, and Monet in all of like 2 seconds. So when Zoro briefly clashed with Fujitora, we all know he would have lost probably very badly. But just thinking about the previous Zoro encounters and the way he resisted the gravity well, it just makes you imagine how much damage Zoro would have been able to do if he got to continue fighting.

Even after basically walking all over Pica, Zoro's strength seemed so ambiguous that it had us wondering how he would have done against Doflamingo.

Then we get to ROOFTOP. And in chapter 1002, every supernova on the roof besides Zoro (So Luffy, Kid, Law and Killer) got in at least some attack/hit against Kaido. But when it got to Zoro's turn, we had him using Hiryu Kaen to cleanly slice off the horn of the skull. And it's just like, how much would that have done to Kaido if it actually hit him? You can say that it wouldn't have done anything, but at that point, why did Oda have it miss? Even with his last attack on the rooftop, Oda made sure to have Zoro in critical condition before issuing it.

Are we ever going to get a Zoro fight where he goes all out with no repercussions/handicaps? The only one I can think of in the whole series is the Mr. 1 fight. Why does Oda insist on "teasing" Zoro without showing us how he would fight at 100%?
Because he is truly the only one beside Luffy that Oda really cares. Oda started One Piece (even Monsters his one shot with a guy that looks like Zoro) with them, they are special (with Nami) for Oda.
Oda is always playing with zoro's strenght and make him shine at the end. For me it's because Oda wants to keep that parallel between Zoro and Luffy. What if Zoro was in luffy's shoes ? Always like that ^^
 
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