Speculations Odas Problem with making Zoros fights somewhat thrilling when the Opponent is not on his lvl=Lucci (example: Zoro vs Killer)

#1
▪︎ Many believe Zoro vs Lucci will be quick Work for Zoro and normally i agree on this BUT lets not forget Odas favourite Move which he pulls constantly on Zoro when hes to strong for the Opponent which is nerfing him trough distractions...

▪︎ What i believe is gonna happen next is that someone is gonna distract Zoro during the fight or somehow get involved to help Lucci which leads to Zoro getting hit fatally by Lucci before he ends Lucci with his finishing move.

It will be basically a Zoro vs Killer/Gyukimaru 2.0 before Zoro beats Lucci im afraid
https://flic.kr/p/2o6UWCC
 
#4
Zoro has the tendency to fight at the level of his foes and continously procrastinate throughout the fight regardless of the situation at hand, it'll be a mid diff like the Pica fight because Zoro will take firever to get to the move that'd finish the fight quick.
the thing is, often time that move is a high end move that drains significant stamina.
 

Bogard

You can't win
#6
The Zoro vs Lucci Oda created is just to continue the whole trend of "Zoro is this strong, and he is just Luffy's underling ?"

There are 2 focus on Lucci's character actually
- Betrayal
- Acknowledging Luffy's yonko lvl strength

For the first point, it stems from Enies Lobby. He was the one who did a sneak infiltration for the world government, ending up betraying everyone, but ending up betrayed by the world government at the end of the arc

He is having a similar story in this arc. He accepted an infiltration mission to kill Vegapunk, but ended up betrayed by Stussy and now that he still wants to follow the government orders, Saturn's discussion with Doberman implies imo that Lucci will get another betrayal moment by the end of the arc

For the second point, as mentioned, he still doesn't want to acknowledge Luffy's strength as a yonko despite being referred as one.

Due to their previous battle in Enies Lobby, Lucci has a hard time accepting Luffy is yonko lvl now

And imo his battle with Zoro is there as mentioned to indirectly serve as accept it using the old formula of "Zoro is this strong, and he is just Luffy's underling ?" that has been a recurring theme in the manga

As for the actual battle itself, we'd see, but I expect Zoro to struggle a bit with a combination of Lucci's speed, mobility and martial arts before Zoro finishing him off with a powerful attacks, with the difficulty probably ending up around the mid difficulty range, around the same he got with King in the previous arc, although for a different reason(finding a way to overcome King's gimmick)
 
#7
the thing is, often time that move is a high end move that drains significant stamina.
Not really? When has a high tier attack ever tired him out outright and not because of the fight being prolonged and Zoro wasting a ton of energy dodging and blocking his opponents' attacks? Hell in his "fight" against Pica he used the "Great Three Thousand Great Thousand Worlds", his most powerful attack outside of Asura ay the time, and proceeds to spam air slashes that cut through mountain ranges with ease. There has never been an attack that has tired Zoro out just by its utilization as far as I'm aware.
 
#8
Zoro has the tendency to fight at the level of his foes and continously procrastinate throughout the fight regardless of the situation at hand, it'll be a mid diff like the Pica fight because Zoro will take firever to get to the move that'd finish the fight quick.

Tbh vs Pica it can easily be argued that Picas Devilfruit in combination with the controll over the whole City was simply a Pain in the Ass Opponent not because of his overwhelming Haki/Power/Durability etc. against Zoros but simply due to beeing able to ALWAYS hide in the stone and just come out somewhere else. You had to hit his Body itself which is small to damage him. He was just running away. Zoro had to cut the golem in so many tiny pieces where Pica had nowhere to run to be able to defeat him.
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Both are high tiers, zoro is in for a tough time.

Respect your Opinion but i dont see Lucci pushing Zoro past mid diff in a FAIR fight.
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#10
I don't believe Oda will have Zoro waste time fighting Lucci. Instead, Zoro make quick work of him. This battle is about proving to the marines they are much stronger than the last time an admiral came after them and they are worthy Yonko crew.

Thats what i would normally say too BUT you never know with Odas love for nerfing Zoro in every Arc. I hope as well that this is a quick Monet thing but i doubt it a lot
 
#12
Tbh vs Pica it can easily be argued that Picas Devilfruit in combination with the controll over the whole City was simply a Pain in the Ass Opponent not because of his overwhelming Haki/Power/Durability etc. against Zoros but simply due to beeing able to ALWAYS hide in the stone and just come out somewhere else. You had to hit his Body itself which is small to damage him. He was just running away. Zoro had to cut the golem in so many tiny pieces where Pica had nowhere to run to be able to defeat him.
When Zoro and Pica were inside the palace, where they were closer to each other and Pica was in much smaller stone formations, Zoro could of simply used Shishi Sonson, or the more powerful Shi Shishi Sonson, and speedblitz Pica then and there, but because Loda was trying to pace the arc, he had Zoro throw out a bunch of nameless slashes that obviously weren't gonna be effective. Zoro consistently refuses to use his wide, versatile arsenal of attacks in the most optimal manner, regardless of the stakes that said fight consists of.
 
#13
The Zoro vs Lucci Oda created is just to continue the whole trend of "Zoro is this strong, and he is just Luffy's underling ?"

There are 2 focus on Lucci's character actually
- Betrayal
- Acknowledging Luffy's yonko lvl strength

For the first point, it stems from Enies Lobby. He was the one who did a sneak infiltration for the world government, ending up betraying everyone, but ending up betrayed by the world government at the end of the arc

He is having a similar story in this arc. He accepted an infiltration mission to kill Vegapunk, but ended up betrayed by Stussy and now that he still wants to follow the government orders, Saturn's discussion with Doberman implies imo that Lucci will get another betrayal moment by the end of the arc

For the second point, as mentioned, he still doesn't want to acknowledge Luffy's strength as a yonko despite being referred as one.

Due to their previous battle in Enies Lobby, Lucci has a hard time accepting Luffy is yonko lvl now

And imo his battle with Zoro is there as mentioned to indirectly serve as accept it using the old formula of "Zoro is this strong, and he is just Luffy's underling ?" that has been a recurring theme in the manga

As for the actual battle itself, we'd see, but I expect Zoro to struggle a bit with a combination of Lucci's speed, mobility and martial arts before Zoro finishing him off with a powerful attacks, with the difficulty probably ending up around the mid difficulty range, around the same he got with King in the previous arc, although for a different reason(finding a way to overcome King's gimmick)
Interesting point.

You are right, there is a thematic that Zoro’s strenght is there to highlight Luffy’s strenght. Luffy is goofy and can look stupid therefore is underestimated and when people see how strong Zoro is, they are baffle by the fact that Luffy is his Captain. I remember Don Chinjao comment after witnessing Zoro’s feat against Pica. It was something akin to “Zoro must be very humble to not enter the tournament while holding such power” (by someone who fought prime Garp nontheless).

Which is why the idea that Luffy could roflstomp his crew (including Zoro) never made any sense to me. The narrative does not go this way.

Furthernore, the Monet’a fight was basically this. A demonstration of the Mugiwaras strenght. It is by seeing how Zoro dealt with Monet that Tashigi took the full scope of the progression of the Mugiwaras.

So yeah this fight might have the same purpose.
Lucci get hype by Kizaru and Doberman during this arc therefore if Zoro beat him, let say mid-diff, the marines will be impressed and this would a lot of weight on Luffy’s words (about being 100x stronger).

So the narrative purpose of this fight might be to establish the crew as a real Yonko crew in the eye of the marines
 
#14
When Zoro and Pica were inside the palace, where they were closer to each other and Pica was in much smaller stone formations, Zoro could of simply used Shishi Sonson, or the more powerful Shi Shishi Sonson, and speedblitz Pica then and there, but because Loda was trying to pace the arc, he had Zoro throw out a bunch of nameless slashes that obviously weren't gonna be effective. Zoro consistently refuses to use his wide, versatile arsenal of attacks in the most optimal manner, regardless of the stakes that said fight consists of.

Zoro used named attacks against Picas Stone Monster in the Castle when Viola and Luffy went away but he stayed Pica was there again infused with the whole Plateum everytime Zoro attacked the Stone Body Pica was already hiding somewhere else he could use the stones however he wanted even Luffys attacks did shit to Pica cause his devilfruit is perfect for running away the whole Time and dragging on that Fight. Zoro was anyway complaining the whole Time "why are you always running away"
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Weak attempt of Killer slander :brootea:

This Post was not even meant to slander anyone in the slightest. Killer was simply the perfect example. I love Killer my fav Supernova excluding Zoro.
Will never forgive Oda for feeding him a smile https://flic.kr/p/2o6TuAg
 
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#15
Thats what i would normally say too BUT you never know with Odas love for nerfing Zoro in every Arc. I hope as well that this is a quick Monet thing but i doubt it a lot
I understand your point but I believe this arc has a different purpose for the SH crew. The purpose is the show the world the strength of the SH. Luffy will show Kizaru they are much stronger than the last time they faced him. Zoro will show Lucci why Luffy is worthy of being a yonko.

Nobody, except for King, knows Zoro has ACoC. Lucci leaning Zoro is a CoC/ACoC user and oneshot him with a KoH/ACoC technique would be the perfect opportunity to show off his overwhelming power and why Luffy is a Yonko.

Zoro battle against Killer/Gyukimaru served a different purpose. Oda needed Zoro to stop fighting Gyukimaru. Instead, spend time with Hiyori which led to him obtaining enma.
 
#16
Zoro getting stabbed by Buggy on his back without knowing his DF powers.

Zoro getting heavily injured by Mihawk and losing 2 sword and then fighting Fishmen.

Zoro being trapped with Usopp and fighting Kaku + Jabra.

Zoro lost 1 sword at Enies Lobby and then fought Ryuuma.

Are another examples of how often Zoro is being nerfed on some fights.
 
#17
Kaku is really that far behind Lucci
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Zoro getting stabbed by Buggy on his back without knowing his DF powers.

Zoro getting heavily injured by Mihawk and losing 2 sword and then fighting Fishmen.

Zoro being trapped with Usopp and fighting Kaku + Jabra.

Zoro lost 1 sword at Enies Lobby and then fought Ryuuma.

Are another examples of how often Zoro is being nerfed on some fights.
nice nit picking

zolo isn't nerfed fighting Mr.1, Priest in Skypiea, Kaku, and King
 
#18
Zoro used named attacks against Picas Stone Monster in the Castle when Viola and Luffy went away but he stayed Pica was there again infused with the whole Plateum everytime Zoro attacked the Stone Body Pica was already hiding somewhere else he could use the stones however he wanted even Luffys attacks did shit to Pica cause his devilfruit is perfect for running away the whole Time and dragging on that Fight. Zoro was anyway complaining the whole Time "why are you always running away"
I think you're getting confused with the anime as I've looked through the chapters where Zoro "fought" Pica in the palace, and I haven't seen one named attack, and even if he did, none of them were as appropriate in this scenario as Shi Shishi Sonson, which he never used against the stone man. Of course Luffy's Grizzly Magnum didn't do shit to Pica as that shit is slow and easily telegraphed. And just because Zoro's complaining doesn't mean that he has tried everything, but rather either Loda trying to create a faux sense of tension by having his character exclaim difficulty of the task, or Zoro unconscioisly holding himself back and procrastinating by not using the optimal play.
 
#19
I think you're getting confused with the anime as I've looked through the chapters where Zoro "fought" Pica in the palace, and I haven't seen one named attack, and even if he did, none of them were as appropriate in this scenario as Shi Shishi Sonson, which he never used against the stone man. Of course Luffy's Grizzly Magnum didn't do shit to Pica as that shit is slow and easily telegraphed. And just because Zoro's complaining doesn't mean that he has tried everything, but rather either Loda trying to create a faux sense of tension by having his character exclaim difficulty of the task, or Zoro unconscioisly holding himself back and procrastinating by not using the optimal play.

I see what you mean with shi shi son son right now but its simply a Oda plot thing
 
#20
If zoro does have a extended fight with Lucci he won't end quickly as Zoro never starts out fights going all out. With characters weaker than himself Zoro always draws it out by not using his best abilities. I think the fight will be interrupted and there won't be a conclusion or Zoro will get serious for some reason and beat Lucci.
 
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