Has Queen been defeated?


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Pantheos

Heavy Metal
Kidd isn't becoming a yonkou. its a reach.


He isn't soloing BM nor he has territory+ crew to back him up like SHs (Grand fleet)
How do you know he has not?
About territory, you think he wont take the ones open from BM then?

All "territory" luffy has is FMI. At biggest reach Wano after the arc. Kid could take down Big mum and make WCI his territory, offering the BMP to sail under his command. Additionally he could take some territory from Kaido, since Luffy isnt interested in any kind of that stuff (beside Wano itself).
 
building a powerful crew really just depends on strength. Post wano Kid will have at least a 1 billion berry bounty, and will be renowned for fighting kaido and big mom. He's also a conqueror.

When you are that strong, you can just subdue others with your strength, as kaido did.
 

ConquistadoR

枯松心中
King wasn't show with his leg, head or wings covered in with that "black coating", and yet he overpowered Zoro every single time, he easily sent Zoro flying

If you think he isn't using haki on these attacks, even clashing with Zoro's swords, then you're just tripping hard

There are other examples you could find about someone being overpowered by an attack that isn't show with "Black coating"
Once again, I never said King wasn't using Haki in those panels. He is using the invisible version of CoA.

I said, he overpowered Zoro once he started using the stronger version, the CoA hardened version.

Zoro with CoA hardening = King with basic CoA < King with CoA hardening.

The best examples are the Scabbards vs full Zoan Kaido.
Only proves that none of the scabbards can use Hardening. And no, you don't need Hardening to use Ryou or any other advanced version of CoA.

And yet, this has nothing to do on how Oda prefer to draw Sanji's haki alongisde with his powers and fighting style, i already gave you enough examples of how inconsistent Oda is.

If you think Sanji kicking things and emitting CoA sparks isn't a signal that he is using it, then theres not much to discuss, when the chapter drops things will be even more clear
I never said Sanji is not using CoA.
CoA and CoA hardening are two different things and CoA hardening is a stronger version.

I said Sanji isn't using CoA hardening. And nope, sparks aren't indicative of much. Franky has generated sparks in panels and we know for sure he isn't a haki user.
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i could easily sound that sanji's leg are soo condition they prolly are the most durable part of his body hence he doesn't bother using hardening in most cases and was never force to up until now.. THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE NEVER POSSESSED IT that BS logic
It probably haki bloom'd.

If he had CoA hardening before this, he wouldn't wonder how to hurt Queen in the first place.
 

Pantheos

Heavy Metal
@Reborn listen, i know its a big reach. And i know most people here doubt it. But from my point of view, i see Kid as straight up rival to Luffy in a long run. Kid is the Vegeta of One Piece in my eyes. For sure he will lose in direct competition with Luffy, but he will always push luffy even further and stick to his ass. There is a reason why Oda is presenting Kid always in competition with Luffy.
 
@Reborn listen, i know its a big reach. And i know most people here doubt it. But from my point of view, i see Kid as straight up rival to Luffy in a long run. Kid is the Vegeta of One Piece in my eyes. For sure he will lose in direct competition with Luffy, but he will always push luffy even further and stick to his ass. There is a reason why Oda is presenting Kid always in competition with Luffy.
Thats blackbeard, blackbeard is the rival that is ahead of luffy and kidd is the rival thats behind luffy
 

Reborn

~~Surpass Your Limits, Right here, Right now~~
He probably will

He's likely the strongest captain outside of Luffy and the emperors. With his devil fruit, he could make his ship fly like shiki did. He could conquer sky islands and use them to amass a giant army.
How do you know he has not?
About territory, you think he wont take the ones open from BM then?

All "territory" luffy has is FMI. At biggest reach Wano after the arc. Kid could take down Big mum and make WCI his territory, offering the BMP to sail under his command. Additionally he could take some territory from Kaido, since Luffy isnt interested in any kind of that stuff (beside Wano itself).
I am not denying he isn't strong himself but taking BM territories immediately after wano doesn't make sense.


Second and most important thing - Oda himself.

He will make Luffy take all credit of Kaido defeat but there is a good chance that BM defeat could be attributable to worst gen in general instead of only Kidd thus decreasing his hype.



And, WCI revealed us that yonkou hype is more related from people and we know who handle the news - reborn *cough * I mean morgan
 
Kidd isn't becoming a yonkou. its a reach.


He isn't soloing BM nor he has territory+ crew to back him up like SHs (Grand fleet)
The Yonko of the last generation are all being taken out this arc.

Kaido/Big Mom by Luffy Kid and Laws alliance
Shanks by Blackbeard

After this Blackbeard Luffy kid and law are the only ones to fill the gap
 

Reborn

~~Surpass Your Limits, Right here, Right now~~
Kidd isnt soloing BM


@Reborn listen, i know its a big reach. And i know most people here doubt it. But from my point of view, i see Kid as straight up rival to Luffy in a long run. Kid is the Vegeta of One Piece in my eyes. For sure he will lose in direct competition with Luffy, but he will always push luffy even further and stick to his ass. There is a reason why Oda is presenting Kid always in competition with Luffy.
Kidd is definitely being presented as comepetitior but we have to see whether he has backing enough to be a yonkou.


When luffy got hyped after WCI then he got credit for leading Germa + Grand fleet + everything that happened in WCI


But in wano - we have Luffy + Law + CP0 who can manipulation info
 
Only proves that none of the scabbards can use Hardening. And no, you don't need Hardening to use Ryou or any other advanced version of CoA.

Ryou is how Armament Haki is called in Wano. See how you're arguing against something that is all the same thing?

You're saying to me that Kaido can feel legit pain by a fodder with a "black coated hand" because the amazing CoA black hardening is incredibly superior and different than anything else
Once again, I never said King wasn't using Haki in those panels. He is using the invisible version of CoA.

I said, he overpowered Zoro once he started using the stronger version, the CoA hardened version.

Zoro with CoA hardening = King with basic CoA < King with CoA hardening.


He overpowered and hurt Zoro with many other moves.

Franky didn't showed the CoA sparks that King and Sanji did when they clashed kicks, when he kicked Oven, when he kicked Page One, when Zoro clashed with King's wings and during several moments of Luffy vs Katakuri


Other than that, it doesn't avoid Oda of being inconsistent at all, thats why we are discussing something that should not be discussed
 
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