Has Queen been defeated?


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Reborn

~~Surpass Your Limits, Right here, Right now~~
you still haven't told me about how Coa and hardening are so fundamentally different that you had to categorize them..
I didn't categorize them


Oda did by presenting two different scenarios.


I presented the evidence that oda made the distinction. Not my fault that you never came across this distinction till now but it's widely accepted among fans.
 

Pantheos

Heavy Metal
I am not denying he isn't strong himself but taking BM territories immediately after wano doesn't make sense.


Second and most important thing - Oda himself.

He will make Luffy take all credit of Kaido defeat but there is a good chance that BM defeat could be attributable to worst gen in general instead of only Kidd thus decreasing his hype.



And, WCI revealed us that yonkou hype is more related from people and we know who handle the news - reborn *cough * I mean morgan
We simply disagree here.

I dont say Kid is going to conquer BMI instantly. But also the BMP are at Wano for a reason and obviously it is not to be part of the war. i can imagine how they get the news of Big Mum being defeated by Kid when they arrive finaly. They could panic, remember Perospero is down too, and they get offered to get spared, to sail further, but under lead of the new Yonko Kid. I can imagine them agreeing, since they share some kind of history when Kid was already in WCI and somehow left without any further war. Just imagine Kid has already a connection to someone higher in the BMP? Not saying it as fact, but it could kinda make sense.

And even if Morgan choose who is getting in the news and for sure he will mostly praise Luffy for the win against Kaido. But he cant against Big Mum. And then there comes some big important fact into play. The goal of the pirates. Kid and Luffy share the same goal, they share the CoC (which Law is missing), which gives us 2 important attributes to make the Marines pissed.

If Akainu has Law and Kid in front of him and has to choose one of them declaring a Yonko. The PK-Title goal and CoC will make the difference here.
 
How do you know he has not?
About territory, you think he wont take the ones open from BM then?

All "territory" luffy has is FMI. At biggest reach Wano after the arc. Kid could take down Big mum and make WCI his territory, offering the BMP to sail under his command. Additionally he could take some territory from Kaido, since Luffy isnt interested in any kind of that stuff (beside Wano itself).
Lol BMP or tottoland will never be under Kidd
They won't also be under Luffy's flag

Katakuri will ally with Luffy but no way Tottoland gets taken by Kidd or Luffy.
 

ConquistadoR

Aku Soku Zan
Ryou is how Armament Haki is called in Wano. See how you're arguing against something that is all the same thing?

You're saying to me that Kaido can feel legit pain by a fodder with a "black coated hand" because the amazing CoA black hardening is incredibly superior and different than anything else
What? I never said anything like that. By Ryou I mean Barrier/Emission Haki but ok. lets play your game.

See there are 4 levels to armament - invisible CoA, COA Hardening, Emission/Barrier and then Internal Destruction.

Kaido can only be hurt by the final two. That being said, while using the final 2 - you don't need to harden your attack necessarily - proof is the scabbards attack on Kaido and Luffy's red hawk that Kaido dodged.

He overpowered and hurt Zoro with many other moves.
Doesnt matter to my point. I showed how CoA hardening is stronger than basic CoA using King as an example.

Franky didn't showed the CoA sparks that King and Sanji did when they clashed kicks, when he kicked Oven, when he kicked Page One, when Zoro clashed with King's wings and during several moments of Luffy vs Katakuri

Is Franky, a non haki user, using haki here? Since there are black sparks? Black sparks =/= Armament Haki. It depends on who the users are.
 
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I'm seriously asking how can Sanji fans be hyped about his fight ? when we had last chapter Zoro fighting a FUCKING GOD who is immortal and has more durability than freaking Kaido ?
Lol Not only that the Zoro fans spamming the ACoC panel and talk about it every second and nearly worshipp it but now they are asking Sanji fans why are you enjoying anything with Sanji?
like now after Zoro chapter no one is allowed the be hyped about any other fight in one piece, heck any other character ever except for Zoro

didn’t know the Zoro fans were this deprived for a single chapter to blow into their egos like this :pepecafe:
 
??

An unhardened 1080 Pound Hawk

A hardened nameless slash.
But at the same time you've got Apo or King blocking his hardened sword swings, whereas Fuji gets pushed back by a gravity restricted air slash even.

What do you think about that, mate:

I'd argue that the pound cannon packs much more power, cause it's most likely infused with the same hakiblast that brawlers otherwise put into the barrier like application, but it simply lacks the refinement/precision and therefore it ends up being more of a wave of destruction instead of a super clean cutting attack.
Same imo applies fittingly to Mihawk's gigantic air slash and that iceberg cutter during MF.

With that -hakiblast infusion concept- you can easily explain how Zoro made his pound cannons 10times more powerful over the timeskip and how his air slash game can be more powerful than his physical attacks, even if they are used under physical strength- restricting parameters, like when Fuji put him under increased gravity.

So hardened haki >> non hardened invisible haki mass (primarily just there for Logia fighting), but the actual released hakiblast (barrier haki, air slash/projectile enhancement) >> hardening + physical strength in pure AP, if the user's strength is not extraordinary high (Big Mom lvl stuff), but less efficient or rather said, it pulls away from the original attack style/type.

That's the most coherent concept I personally could come up with.
 

Reborn

~~Surpass Your Limits, Right here, Right now~~
We simply disagree here.

I dont say Kid is going to conquer BMI instantly. But also the BMP are at Wano for a reason and obviously it is not to be part of the war. i can imagine how they get the news of Big Mum being defeated by Kid when they arrive finaly. They could panic, remember Perospero is down too, and they get offered to get spared, to sail further, but under lead of the new Yonko Kid. I can imagine them agreeing, since they share some kind of history when Kid was already in WCI and somehow left without any further war. Just imagine Kid has already a connection to someone higher in the BMP? Not saying it as fact, but it could kinda make sense.

And even if Morgan choose who is getting in the news and for sure he will mostly praise Luffy for the win against Kaido. But he cant against Big Mum. And then there comes some big important fact into play. The goal of the pirates. Kid and Luffy share the same goal, they share the CoC (which Law is missing), which gives us 2 important attributes to make the Marines pissed.

If Akainu has Law and Kid in front of him and has to choose one of them declaring a Yonko. The PK-Title goal and CoC will make the difference here.
There is lot of hypothesis involved here.




Here is the order in which credit can be distributed.


Worst gen trio as a whole (Luffy + Kidd + law) > Luffy getting the max credit for defeating the kaido- BM alliance (it was official after all) >. Luffy getting the credit for only kaido and Kidd + law getting the credit for BM > Luffy for kaido and kidd for BM.



Based on this you can clearly see that kidd won't get much credit except in last scenario which in itself is very difficulty to happen.



Wano will be under Luffy's wing + News of marco and samurais being allies


He already have reputation of destroying WCI and having FI



So luffy will be having so much to back him up for being yonkou.


If you compare kidd with these then what exactly he has to be put on same footing? Just answer honestly...



And,.let me tell you the worst part - Both kidd and law getting branded as Luffy's allies.


Law already got so in dressrosa and even Bege in WCI
 
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Lol Not only that the Zoro fans spamming the ACoC panel and talk about it every second and nearly worshipp it but now they are asking Sanji fans why are you enjoying anything with Sanji?
like now after Zoro chapter no one is allowed the be hyped about any other fight in one piece, heck any other character ever except for Zoro

didn’t know the Zoro fans were this deprived for a single chapter to blow into their egos like this :pepecafe:
80% of the posts in this thread are just pure autism and begging for something that the cook will never have :suresure:
We all know who's nothing enjoying OP :cheers:
 
Something always non make sense . For instance , if advanced coc solve everything , please explain me why have not big mom used coc coating against law and Kidd . Just non make sense . Just one coc sword attack from roger threw oden in meters . Oda making just bullshit. Like Sanji have already had all speed coa abilities already . But he think that when all abilities counts in one attack , everybody get hype . Cheatingggggggggg
 

ConquistadoR

Aku Soku Zan
But at the same time you've got Apo or King blocking his hardened sword swings, whereas Fuji gets pushed back by a gravity restricted air slash even.

What do you think about that, mate:

I'd argue that the pound cannon packs much more power, cause it's most likely infused with the same hakiblast that brawlers otherwise put into the barrier like application, but it simply lacks the refinement/precision and therefore it ends up being more of a wave of destruction instead of a super clean cutting attack.
Same imo applies fittingly to Mihawk's gigantic air slash and that iceberg cutter during MF.

With that -hakiblast infusion concept- you can easily explain how Zoro made his pound cannons 10times more powerful over the timeskip and how his air slash game can be more powerful than his physical attacks, even if they are used under physical strength- restricting parameters, like when Fuji put him under increased gravity.

So hardened haki >> non hardened invisible haki mass (primarily just there for Logia fighting), but the actual released hakiblast (barrier haki, air slash/projectile enhancement) >> hardening + physical strength in pure AP, if the user's strength is not extraordinary high (Big Mom lvl stuff), but less efficient or rather said, it pulls away from the original attack style/type.

That's the most coherent concept I personally could come up with
Yeah that explains the physics of it. There is more power packed into a 1080 pound hawk attack but it isn't a clean cut like the other attacks.

Anyway I was wrong in my original argument as well - the 1080 pound attack did cut Pica into 2 apparently. But the core of the argument, that CoA hardening > Invisible CoA stands though.
 
Yeah that explains the physics of it. There is more power packed into a 1080 pound hawk attack but it isn't a clean cut like the other attacks.

Anyway I was wrong in my original argument as well - the 1080 pound attack did cut Pica into 2 apparently. But the core of the argument, that CoA hardening > Invisible CoA stands though.
Yeah definitely stands true.
I was in to quote another post of yours, the one before that, to even back you up, as...
Sai leveled up to ice continent splitter only after unlocking hardening.
Same way the scabbards changed from invisible flowing CoA on their blades to hardened blades for their final group attack.
-> Hardening definitely is superior.
Luffy even changes his attacks' prefix when activating hardening: Giganto -> elephant/grizzly, jet ->hawk/eagle.
Super obvious
(hopefully CoC changes his attack names again btw lol)
 
I didn't categorize them


Oda did by presenting two different scenarios.


I presented the evidence that oda made the distinction. Not my fault that you never came across this distinction till now but it's widely accepted among fans.
oh sorry my bad... you failed to categorize them.. hope i got it right this time

I will explain


CoA basic has 3 grades /applications


Invisible CoA - allow user to hit logia user (sanji)


Koka/ hardening - coating CoA on your body part ( Luffy ) - generally visible in form of black coating


Imbuement - coating weapons with your CoA (zoro against pica) - visible in form of black coating on weapons



Sanji definitely used CoA since TS but Oda never clearly portray sanji using koka in manga when he had multiple opportunities to do so
Do you know what categorizing is..

what evidence did you provide for this nonsense?
you literally used 1 single variable that is arnament and categorized it in 3 different portions by literally separating their application amongst when 3 of these "application" enable you to to every thing that you limited to each of them...

What you did is instead of mentioning general applications of arnament.. you divided arnamnment into Hardening, invisible.. and imbuement (?) and separate arnaments general applications amongst theses specifically

thats wrong completely wrong.. no sane person would admit to this

invisible Coa can be used for logias, can be coated, can be imbued into weapons..

hardening its just harder arnament.. you literally categorized separately and distinguish their purposes to each one specifically.. do you even know what you did bruh.
 
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