Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1034 Spoilers Discussion

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

Keep coping we all know the truth. Sanji while extremely injured is zoros equal

im not arguing sanji vs zoro, just that doriki is a joke. sanji and zoro are rivals and around the same in terms of combat ability, i dont think either has a real edge

especially now that they're both getting power ups in wano that help them fight each other, like fire cutting or exoskeleton

 

[BillSlipton]

im not arguing sanji vs zoro, just that doriki is a joke. sanji and zoro are rivals and around the same in terms of combat ability, i dont think either has a real edge

especially now that they're both getting power ups in wano that help them fight each other, like fire cutting or exoskeleton

Doriki isn't a joke. You didn't argue anything. All you said was that it didn't take into account their skills. Obviously.

But let's be real here. Dorikis only purpose was to parralel luffy sanji and zoro. It was the author once again after little garden having to reiterate zoro=sanji

I could make plenty of arguments like that kaku was messing up with his df cause hes inexperienced and that jabra had the best iron body or any of the other arguments oda craftily placed into the story. But I won't. It's redundant. They were equals and it's meant to parralel zoro and sanji.

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

Doriki isn't a joke. You didn't argue anything. All you said was that it didn't take into account their skills. Obviously.

But let's be real here. Dorikis only purpose was to parralel luffy sanji and zoro. It was the author once again after little garden having to reiterate zoro=sanji

I could make plenty of arguments like that kaku was messing up with his df cause hes inexperienced and that jabra had the best iron body or any of the other arguments oda craftily placed into the story. But I won't. It's redundant. They were equals and it's meant to parralel zoro and sanji.

no, it was to make fun of powerscaling and make fukurou look like an idiot.

 

[BillSlipton]

no, it was to make fun of powerscaling and make fukurou look like an idiot.

Oh OK nice. Any evidence? Nah just headcanon

 

[stairs-kun]

Just to give a bit of perspective, here are some of my thoughts on Queen for those that might be a bit disappointed with him:

With regards to Queen, to summarize in my own way, I think there are 3 main reasons why he might feel bit underwhelming to some.

- How his bounty compares to King.
The fact that their bounties are close gives off the impression that they are close strength wise but King's combat showings have been a lot more impressive than Queen hence why Queen looks underwhelming. But the first reason for this is that Sanji atm particularly with his current buffs is an awful matchup for Queen. Outta of all the high tiers atm, Sanji has some of the best base stats. Any commander that doesn't have either some sorta hax or durability is gonna get wrecked by him. Only 2nd Commander that I feel would put up a balanced fight against him is Jozu. On the other hand, in the same vein that Sanji is an awful matchup for Queen, King is an awful matchup for Zoro. So the matchup itself and the sheer martial strength of Queen and Zoro's opponents in comparison to them is the reason why they are being overwhelmed the way they are.

- Expectation vs Reality.
There is an implicit assumption that King and Queen are the same type of fighters, so we are holding both to the same standard which is one of the main causes of our disappointment with Queen.
King is full blooded combatant that has even be dubbed a "killing machine". This is someone that seems to have absorbed tons of martial arts and uses his own hybrid style where as Queen on the other is a bloody strong "scientist". Queen's threat comes from his "science" not his "martial skills". You'd see that most of the criticism that people haul at Queen is qualms about his martial skills. For instance, "he's too slow!", "all he can do is shoot lasers etc!". But keep in mind here again that matchup is very important. Right now, Sanji is as bloody strong martial artist that is also a speedster. To put tings into perspective, even the lasers these critics are looking down on with Queen are even more impressive than the catapult lazer ting King does with his head as Queen can use rapid fire with his lazer attacks hence making them a lot harder to evade. King's attack might hit someone like Zoro who is more of a tank type but it won't even hit Sanji's shadow. Not sleeping on Zoro's speed here as he's not really a slow character but Sanji is a lot more mobile than he is.

- Lack of lethality from Queen as opposed to King
As impressive and versatile as Queen's attacks are, none of them save his Bracoil Hold were lethal to Sanji and even that was countered by Sanji's exoskeleton awaekning. Whereas most of King's attacks have been lethal to Zoro. Again it is important to note that Sanji is currently the most durable character in the alliance atm, so Queen is effectively fighting a pseudo Dino of sorts hence why the damage Sanji has taken from those attacks have been minimal. So physical attacks for the most part aren't gonna have as much of an effect on Sanji as they'd have on Zoro for instance.
And this lack of lethality is what really sets people like Donflamingo, Katakuri, King etc. apart from Queen

All that said, there is really nothing we can do about the first two aforementioned points, it is what It is, people just have to try to be a little more objective. I was bit irritated myself but after giving it some thought I've come to terms with it. That said, something can still be done about the final "lethality" point if Oda allows Queen to use his plagues the way we know he can. As even if physical attacks might not work on Sanji, biowarfare certainly should. And on this point, Queen is even more lethal than any of the other Yonko Commanders imo. This is one of the perks of Sanji fighting a mad scientist as opposed to a true and true martial artist.

I know you aren't trying to compare Sanji and Queen to Zoro and King.

Zoro and King are top tiers. Sanji and Queen are not.

 

[BillSlipton]

I know you aren't trying to compare Sanji and Queen to Zoro and King.

Zoro and King are top tiers. Sanji and Queen are not.

Queens kinda designed exactly the same as jabra tbh.... same mustache glasses.... also would explain why King and Queen's bounty are so close and their portrayal of always being side by side. And how wano has been a literal carbon copy of ennies lobby for zoro and sanji

I could go on. Yanno like saving robin/momo and then having an epic entrance saving usopp/chopper and then making a speech to reinforce those around him. Fighting king and queen together like zoro did vs jabra and kaku with usopp.

Etc...

 

[nRandle]

Just watched ep 1001, did Toei really spoiled that "god of fire" thing, like they did Zoro's CoC

 

[Franosuke]

Doriki isn't a joke. You didn't argue anything. All you said was that it didn't take into account their skills. Obviously.

But let's be real here. Dorikis only purpose was to parralel luffy sanji and zoro. It was the author once again after little garden having to reiterate zoro=sanji

I could make plenty of arguments like that kaku was messing up with his df cause hes inexperienced and that jabra had the best iron body or any of the other arguments oda craftily placed into the story. But I won't. It's redundant. They were equals and it's meant to parralel zoro and sanji.

I just don't get why we have to use metaphors and parallels when Zoro's Vivre Card literally says "Being the strongest member of the crew after the captain, he usually takes out the second strongest member of an enemy group"

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

Oh OK nice. Any evidence? Nah just headcanon

the evidence is that nobody else in the series uses it, and its something fukurou made up. none of the other cipher pol members take it seriously either (except for jabra, to make fun of how everyone in the fanbase fought about zoro vs sanji even back then, with this idea that sanji is weaker), because its just everyone beating up on fukurou and then him making up a number.

yes, lucci punches him about twice as hard as kaku and jabra, who hit about as hard as each other. this doesnt mean anything but that specific fact

 

[BillSlipton]

Just to give a bit of perspective, here are some of my thoughts on Queen for those that might be a bit disappointed with him:

With regards to Queen, to summarize in my own way, I think there are 3 main reasons why he might feel bit underwhelming to some.

- How his bounty compares to King.
The fact that their bounties are close gives off the impression that they are close strength wise but King's combat showings have been a lot more impressive than Queen hence why Queen looks underwhelming. But the first reason for this is that Sanji atm particularly with his current buffs is an awful matchup for Queen. Outta of all the high tiers atm, Sanji has some of the best base stats. Any commander that doesn't have either some sorta hax or durability is gonna get wrecked by him. Only 2nd Commander that I feel would put up a balanced fight against him is Jozu. On the other hand, in the same vein that Sanji is an awful matchup for Queen, King is an awful matchup for Zoro. So the matchup itself and the sheer martial strength of Queen and Zoro's opponents in comparison to them is the reason why they are being overwhelmed the way they are.

- Expectation vs Reality.
There is an implicit assumption that King and Queen are the same type of fighters, so we are holding both to the same standard which is one of the main causes of our disappointment with Queen.
King is full blooded combatant that has even be dubbed a "killing machine". This is someone that seems to have absorbed tons of martial arts and uses his own hybrid style where as Queen on the other is a bloody strong "scientist". Queen's threat comes from his "science" not his "martial skills". You'd see that most of the criticism that people haul at Queen is qualms about his martial skills. For instance, "he's too slow!", "all he can do is shoot lasers etc!". But keep in mind here again that matchup is very important. Right now, Sanji is as bloody strong martial artist that is also a speedster. To put tings into perspective, even the lasers these critics are looking down on with Queen are even more impressive than the catapult lazer ting King does with his head as Queen can use rapid fire with his lazer attacks hence making them a lot harder to evade. King's attack might hit someone like Zoro who is more of a tank type but it won't even hit Sanji's shadow. Not sleeping on Zoro's speed here as he's not really a slow character but Sanji is a lot more mobile than he is.

- Lack of lethality from Queen as opposed to King
As impressive and versatile as Queen's attacks are, none of them save his Bracoil Hold were lethal to Sanji and even that was countered by Sanji's exoskeleton awaekning. Whereas most of King's attacks have been lethal to Zoro. Again it is important to note that Sanji is currently the most durable character in the alliance atm, so Queen is effectively fighting a pseudo Dino of sorts hence why the damage Sanji has taken from those attacks have been minimal. So physical attacks for the most part aren't gonna have as much of an effect on Sanji as they'd have on Zoro for instance.
And this lack of lethality is what really sets people like Donflamingo, Katakuri, King etc. apart from Queen

All that said, there is really nothing we can do about the first two aforementioned points, it is what It is, people just have to try to be a little more objective. I was bit irritated myself but after giving it some thought I've come to terms with it. That said, something can still be done about the final "lethality" point if Oda allows Queen to use his plagues the way we know he can. As even if physical attacks might not work on Sanji, biowarfare certainly should. And on this point, Queen is even more lethal than any of the other Yonko Commanders imo. This is one of the perks of Sanji fighting a mad scientist as opposed to a true and true martial artist.

Thanks for the perspective. I'm glad people are finally noticing what I've been saying. Kings fastest attack isn't as fast as queens casual barrage of beams that he uses like a g 2 punch for luffy

 

[stairs-kun]

Queens kinda designed exactly the same as jabra tbh.... same mustache glasses.... also would explain why King and Queen's bounty are so close and their portrayal of always being side by side. And how wano has been a literal carbon copy of ennies lobby for zoro and sanji

I could go on. Yanno like saving robin/momo and then having an epic entrance saving usopp/chopper and then making a speech to reinforce those around him. Fighting king and queen together like zoro did vs jabra and kaku with usopp.

Etc...

"muh side by side pose" has a chokehold on you fools. That means nothing strength wise. That's like saying Caesar = Bege = Luffy.

You could go on can you? King has combat feats and is putting considerable pressure on post rooftop Zoro.

Zoro literally bitched Queen.

The reason why you people always get your headcanons crushed is because you don't actually read the story. Everything to you guys is "hurr durr side by side panel pose."

Law, Mid, and Luffy should have taught you this lesson already.

 

[Ssg super suit coby]

Sanji literally says it. Idk why you're so against this idea. He got the idea itself from wanted using friction on his skates.

I am against the idea because the same sanji stated (including oda) that he doesnt need friction to use it in the first place lol

 

[BillSlipton]

I just don't get why we have to use metaphors and parallels when Zoro's Vivre Card literally says "Being the strongest member of the crew after the captain, he usually takes out the second strongest member of an enemy group"

You can be the second strongest and have someone who's just as good a fighter on your crew but can hit with the equivalent difference of 2 marine fodder. Sanji would also stoll outspeed and outmaneuver him and obviously coo>

So yeah zoro>sanji in terms of strength. With a difference of 20 doriki with sanji having better stats all around

 

[stairs-kun]

You can be the second strongest and have someone who's just as good a fighter on your crew but can hit with the equivalent difference of 2 marine fodder. Sanji would also stoll outspeed and outmaneuver him and obviously coo>

So yeah zoro>sanji in terms of strength. With a difference of 20 doriki with sanji having better stats all around

I have Sanjino's aCoC

 

[Seraphoenix]

That's not true tho, we know that Shanks was on Roger's crew and Roger like WB ran from everyone, we also know that Shanks KNEELS before the WG, the Marines Bosses.

It is true if you read the manga scrub. At WBs's burial Shanks said there were many times when he was a kid where he wished Roger would run but he never did. He wanted all the smoke. Same thing Garp said when he said Roger became like a demon when cornered.

Also Shanks speaks as an equal with Akainu's bosses. Cry more

 

[draganax]

people that use doriki to powerscale the monster trio are wrong.
let's scale full power monster trio vs full power lucci/kaku/jabura:

-zoro asura vs kaku => zoro one shotted kaku
-sanji diable jambe vs jabura => sanji two shotted jabura
-luffy gear 2/3 vs rob lucci => luffy extreme diff'ed lucci

do with that as you will.

 

[Ssg super suit coby]

I am not a Sanjitard, I am a Luffy fan and I don't go around using Luffy to shit on Zoro like Zorotards even if Luffy is stronger than him. We aren't the same so trying to bring me down to your level is futile.

There are people agreeing with my posts and it as a good start to cleanse the forum off toxic users like you. M0nst3rx getting banned was also a positive movement forward, only shame is that he isn't permabanned.

Now you on the other hand keeping your mouth shut wouldn't be meaningless because it would actually promote more positivity with one more toxic user silenced.

Its true what they say about the empty barrel making the most noise. You have already been shown as a hypocrite. Now unless you like digging your own grave I suggest you stop making your self more stupid than you want to come off as.

You cannot expect people to do something that you yourself admit to not doing. You dont defend zoro fans and feats so dont expect zoro fans to defend sanji fans and feats.

I will say this at much times as it needs to be heard for you.

Either keep the same energy or keep your mouth shut. Mad simple.

 

[Franosuke]

You can be the second strongest and have someone who's just as good a fighter on your crew but can hit with the equivalent difference of 2 marine fodder. Sanji would also stoll outspeed and outmaneuver him and obviously coo>

So yeah zoro>sanji in terms of strength. With a difference of 20 doriki with sanji having better stats all around

But now you're using the same logic as the guy who said doriki is just about how hard you can hit Fukurou by saying he can "hit with the equivalent difference of 2 marine fodder" unless I'm misunderstanding what you meant by that statement

But I feel like everyone agrees that Oda saying "strength" translates to meaning "power" or "combat ability," and not just "physical strength" --I would bring up that One Piece databook but not everyone agrees on whether or not it's canon so I won't say anything about it

Also, what would be the point of explicitly describing Zoro as the #2 strongest in the crew if there wasn't at least a noticeable enough difference between him and Sanji to properly distinguish that? Like, why didn't he say, "Alongside Sanji, Zoro is the most reliable fighter in the crew after Luffy" or something along those lines

 

[tentathief]

check the coloured manga version of that panel. again it aint hardening.

he showed hardening this chapter when he broke queen's arm and it correlates with him saying he trained his CoA.

so u were saying oda's og drawing is non canon? ok man understandable

 

[Midnight Delight]

Fighting king and queen together like zoro did vs jabra and kaku with usopp.

King is more like Lucci