Character Discussion Please explain how Sanji relying on his friend is "embarrassing"?

#21
I thought it was a nice moment showing he's moved past being stubborn and has taken Nami's advice to get rid of the part of his chivalry that prevented him from running away. He's willing to be seen as vulnerable to make clear to Robin that he needs her help and that he trusts her enough to handle Black Maria. I always saw it as simply Robin covering for Sanji's inadequacies and Sanji making up in his own way by beating Queen and saving people at the Live Floor.
 

KonyaruIchi

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#22
I personally think it's admirable he actually realized he was in deep shit and therefore decided to rely on his crewmates for help, and of course led to a pretty cool fight where Robin kicked ass (which also allowed Sanji to go mop the floor with Queen later). That being said I think the setup itself is what is somewhat embarrassing about it. It's another case of Sanji falling for an obvious trap set by a woman (which has happened before and it's become somewhat of a tired trope/joke, depending on how you look at it). My issue personally isn't the call for help, but how he managed to get himself in that situation in the first place.
 
#23
As others have explained, it isn't that he's relying on others that is the problem - in fact one could argue that this a culmination of his character arc throughout the series since he's had self-worth issues.

The problem is HOW, WHEN & WHERE he decides to ask for help. Sanji had every opportunity and tool necessary to make sure that he DOESN'T get caught or hurt, and what happens? He instead use all that to perv on women when he could have used it to save the woman he thought was being assaulted. He didn't even need to get into a conflict with Black Mariah but Oda decided to make him an idiot AGAIN just so he can call for help.

 
#24
Worst argument i've seen from this arc tbh, there is way too much scenes if you wanna shit or troll sanji but this is the worst to pick up lol
People think hating on men is progressive and feminist when it's actually the opposite, and misogynistic: hating and degrading men for relying on women and trusting women is likely to just make them have worse opinions of women, and not want to treat them well.

Getting mad at Sanji for simping over women is fine, just like it's fine to get mad at Zoro for picking fights in bad scenarios (like the beginning of Wano): Sanji is pacifistic and passionate (sometimes to a fault), while Zoro can be too reckless and cold-hearted (sometimes to a fault, like when he challenged Mihawk, but also to his success, like when he destroyed Monet).

Sanji objectifies women at times, and, while Robin and Nami tolerate it because they know he's a great guy at heart and is just very easily aroused, I definitely get why it pisses fans off when he simps the way he does, even though I love Sanji and his character, and wouldn't change him as a character: I'm fine with Sanji fighting with kindness, rather than being just another Zoro. Sanji's value is in doing what Zoro can't, not in trying to match Zoro.

So, hating Sanji for trusting in Robin and relying on her is super gross, in my opinion. If anything, it shows that Sanji is growing to see women as more than people to protect, and as people he can fight alongside. I honestly think Sanji will hit a woman in this series: Nami/Robin will be about to be killed/seriously injured by another woman, and Sanji will attack them. Zeff taught him to never harm a woman: so, if Sanji has to choose between watching Nami/Robin get mauled, or attacking another woman, I think he'll overcome himself and fight back.

Sanji needs to accept this is the New World: you have to be able to fight against enemies, not to harm them, but to protect your own Nakama. I fully expect Zoro to chew him out for risking Robin's life because he wasn't willing to fight back against women, and, TBH, he deserves it. If you're willing to let an innocent woman die because you won't fight another woman who's trying to murder someone viciously, WTF are you doing, mate? That's not chivalry, that's insanity.
Post automatically merged:

They hate on him when he wanted to do everything alone in WCI and not relying on SH's and now hating him for relying on SH's:kaidowhat:
Wow, what an excellent point. Sanji relying on others was the entire point of Whole Cake, WHY ARE WE MAD ABOUT HIM GROWING FROM THE EXPERIENCE?!? If he had refused to rely on Robin, then the entirety of Whole Cake Island would have been a gigantic waste of time and Sanji's character. He needs to learn to trust women and treat them as equals, and it's beautiful to see him have such faith in Robin. People hating on a guy for trying to improve himself, SMH.
 
#25
There is no being pathetic in asking help of a friend for something you cant do, the trap was not the problem for sanji as he could've easily escape but the problem was he was against women
Needing help from nakama is nothing to be ashamed of but context is important.
In the case of Sanji, there are several issues :
- Sanji has a real problem with women and I'm not talking about gags and nosebleeds; he is ready to sell his mother if a ''beautiful woman'' is in play; he did it as soon as they entered Onigashima and abandonned Nami and Usopp to BigMom to go look for prostitues; did it again with Luffy and Jimbei; you could argue that he heard a woman in distress but they were in a war against two Yonko and he showed in PH that when he is in a hurry, he wouldn't hesitate to abandon children in distress.

- Sanji could have freed himself from BM and run away, again nothing shameful but he didn t and instead chose to call the SH that BM specifically asked him to call, putting her in huge danger.

Blame Oda or whoever you want since Sanji is a character afterall but still a character with an unbearable flaw that put him and his friends in dire situations many times already...it needs to change or the Sanji slander will never stop and will always be considered a Gag character.
 
#26
Sanji is just lame tbh. His morals are ass. He does stupid shit. Oda writes him into bad situation.

โ€œI canโ€™t use my haki to defend myself because I canโ€™t hurt themโ€.

Let me bake Big Mom a cake sheโ€™s craving it.
 
#28
There is no problem with relying on friends
The problem is the situations you let yourself fall in where you will get embarrassed, desperately need others help & endanger them

For example, Zoro taking Hakai was necessary & it ended with him needing Sanji's Help & then Chopper's
But Sanji abandoning his Captain to chase some girl, & then get caught by some trash & then getting humiliated by the enemy & then letting the whole Island hear his cry for help which leads to Robin coming to Black Maria's Room which is what the enemy wants ... etc
That is what makes it pathetic
These are aleays subjective view . I would not prefer to use chase.
help.
I would not prefer to use abondon . Leave for saving somebodys life
For the rest ,
Sanjis is not type of man who wants to help from his nakama in any case .
also , robin always feel she owe his nakama . Calling her is very helpful in terms of gaining confident .
also , this move help sanjis character devolopment in onigashima.
If you read manga , the one of reason to call robin is to prevent black maria not to kill 9 scabbards.

So , from the begining of the raid , sanji can follow robin and nami . But his priorties have changed . And oda wanted to show us . Unstable emotional bomb sanji turn into determination guy in the wano step by step .
 

Kurozumi Indigo

82 Days for Ragnarok
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#30
My problem isn't Sanji asking for help

is the setup

Yeah, i understand, he can't hit women and he can't defend himself with Haki or anything because it might hurt them

but why the fuck can't he kick a hole in the wall and speed the fuck outta there? he could also put his fucking raid suit, go invisible, and split!

There's 100000 things Sanji could've done without hurting women, get out of there, and actually help the raid.

But instead, Oda makes Sanji stay there.

Also, something that pisses me off a little, is that Sanji is putting Robin in major risk, by basically announcing to the entire raid where Robin is gonna go.

Robin is important asf for everyone, marines, CP agents, pirates. Everybody wants to get Robin!

CP0 went after her because of that.

If One Piece was a series with actual consequences, Robin would've been in deep shit because of Sanji.
 
#32
Sanji relying on his friend isn't embarrassing
my problem with it is execution i simply didn't like it
few example:
it doesn't make sense how they even captured sanji with his speed he should be able to ran away very easily he could simply ran away toward robin and black maria chase him then he could ask her to help him and take care of BM it wouldn't make a fool from sanji
or crying part i also don't like it he could ask for help with out crying
also honestly getting captured in middle of a war make it even worse

its not some thing that embarrassing for sanji its embarrassing for oda and his multiple trash and half ass executions of plots in wano compare to some of them it wasn't even that bad
 
#34
Worst argument i've seen from this arc tbh, there is way too much scenes if you wanna shit or troll sanji but this is the worst to pick up lol
Actually I am not big Sanji fan but I liked Sanji in that scene.
He learnt from failures of Enies Lobby and WCI. At those times he gave up on everything and accepted defeats.Even jeopardizing friends same time. But this time, he trusted his friends.
Haters will hate anything. Ignore them.
 
#35
The whole "Sanji relying on Robin" deal could have been done much better. Sanji calling for her help could been done earlier and then being confident about it as Black Maria shouted about her yet again using people to stay alive would have been so much better.
 
#36
sanji who one of the monster trio and who has shown great foresight and smarts (mostly pre ts) fucked up at being both being a fighter and being smart, getting catured is stupid and oda ignoreing the many possibilities of how he can get out of there Ill give a clue the god damn building isnt indestructible.
Theres other ways you could get to the point for sanji to relying on robin without having sanji looking like a idiot.
 
#37
If the embarrassing situation he puts himself into, and then to make matters worse putting Robin in danger, needs explaining to you mate you wouldn't get it.

Alleged Top Tier observation but gets caught
Invincible Germa suit but doesn't use it....would use it to sexual harass women in a bath house though.
Claims to be training his CoA but won't use it to defend himself.
2nd time he's left a crew member to go lust/"save" a prostitute

If you can't see it, you never will ๐Ÿคท๐Ÿพโ€โ™‚๏ธ
 
#38
Its the same situation like vs kalifa, cheap excuse to make the sh females fight, nami had one of her best 1v1 back then vs kalifa and now

robin had her best 1v1 fight in all her career. Sanji was just the plot device for this to happen.

Immo if this is how Oda wants to set up fights for the female characters of the crew, than I have no problem with it, whatever.

I considered the whole Sanji situation hilarious and super extra, got my dose of fun from it.
 
#39
There is no problem with relying on friends
The problem is the situations you let yourself fall in where you will get embarrassed, desperately need others help & endanger them

For example, Zoro taking Hakai was necessary & it ended with him needing Sanji's Help & then Chopper's
But Sanji abandoning his Captain to chase some girl, & then get caught by some trash & then getting humiliated by the enemy & then letting the whole Island hear his cry for help which leads to Robin coming to Black Maria's Room which is what the enemy wants ... etc
That is what makes it pathetic
This... it's not 'relying on friends' that's the problem... every Straw Hats does so. It's the fact that during the most important fight the Straw Hats have ever been in Sanji who is one of the most powerful members of not just the crew but the whole alliance put's both himself, Robin, and everyone in danger for his own personal beliefs... and its something that only he does.

Every Straw Hats has beliefs and morals they would risk their lives over but only Sanji would risk the rest of the crew for his own.
 

Finalbeta

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#40
In the future I hope he relies on Yamato, that could be funny to see how it plays out
 
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