[FNZ] Role Madness Policy Academy Crazy Quadrupoley Insanity Dethy Parity Bastarady Mafiay
- Thread starter Emil
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- Tags ekko is a bad host ekko is a good host
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It's not. I know because I tried. I could get to about 90% of the way there, as you will have noted with some comments I made in the scum chat, only to end up coming unstuck with the last few because of results that didn't match up. Now you could argue that the results not matching up was by itself the hint, which I would grant, except the idea of the Serial in the game made it so some results couldn't be trusted anyway, which in turn made it impossible to figure out the point of manipulation within the results.
In actual Dethys, not whatever this is, you identify the point of manipulation by isolating the result that prevents it from working, but here the proposed Serial could change how others investigated too, which meant any number of results could potentially be what is throwing it off. As for your claim that you can figure out the sanity by analysing kills, you can't, because of a) not being able to hash out a clear theory for which sanity everyone was and b) not being able to trust every result. This issue is further compounded by the amount of players lying about their results, because eventually there was nothing trustworthy that could be assumed. If you reach that conclusion, you may figure out the twist, but investigations as an angle to figure this out where, by and large, untenable.
I don't care about chances of winning, I never had any interest in that from the start. I wanted to figure out a logic puzzle I had no way of actually doing, and furthermore the "bastard" elements were not a puzzle as they should have been, but a misappropriation of the term which was took to mean anything is fine.
My expectations were not too high, in fact they were pretty low from the outset, my complaint isn't around it being "unconventional", and I don't think you properly designed a bastard game here.
In actual Dethys, not whatever this is, you identify the point of manipulation by isolating the result that prevents it from working, but here the proposed Serial could change how others investigated too, which meant any number of results could potentially be what is throwing it off. As for your claim that you can figure out the sanity by analysing kills, you can't, because of a) not being able to hash out a clear theory for which sanity everyone was and b) not being able to trust every result. This issue is further compounded by the amount of players lying about their results, because eventually there was nothing trustworthy that could be assumed. If you reach that conclusion, you may figure out the twist, but investigations as an angle to figure this out where, by and large, untenable.
I don't care about chances of winning, I never had any interest in that from the start. I wanted to figure out a logic puzzle I had no way of actually doing, and furthermore the "bastard" elements were not a puzzle as they should have been, but a misappropriation of the term which was took to mean anything is fine.
My expectations were not too high, in fact they were pretty low from the outset, my complaint isn't around it being "unconventional", and I don't think you properly designed a bastard game here.
Using the investigations as a compass I could never get anyone's possible sanity to fewer than one of two possibilities, and in several cases fewer than one of three. This is because once you go through the possibilities one can be, you're left with guessing as to whether the Serial inverted this player or that one, whether they lied about this or that, or whether they were investigated here or manipulated there, which meant there was always one of two theories and without being able to reduce that there was no way to come up with a clear list of who was which sanity. It was always Player 1 was either A or B and in some cases A or B or C.
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it was never meant to be balanced loo. just chaotic as can be.
the same setup can work without bastard mechanics. make the flips legit and all that but keep the triggers and no factional kills. it might be more fun to play than this. and certainly more solveable.
this dethy was just an excuse to set up a 4 mafia deathmatch. there is lots of luck involved too with random investigations getting kills. again you were never required to solve the whole thing. just enough to rekt the other factions. solving it all will be pretty hard cuz they will inevitably lie
i dont think it was bad. it delivered on what i wanted to do for awhile a 4 way match. there r probably better ways to do this, but a dethy mask seemed the most appealing. i lied to you all. i put everyone in a survivor battle when they were expecting a semi legit game. i think this was the only way to get the 4 way match done without exposing it.
the dethy part for dethy lovers like you is pretty convoluted and will be impossible to fully solve once people start getting night killed and not share results. had this being a real setup. its actually alot more solveable. here u r mostly required to solve ur team and partners sanity before the enemy. by trial and error u can solve theirs too. there is no time to sit down and draw tables like a real dethy. its much faster paced
so i fully get the frustration/disappointment. this was totally opposite of what was advertised for which u were excited to solve and play. sorry for the bummer.
the same setup can work without bastard mechanics. make the flips legit and all that but keep the triggers and no factional kills. it might be more fun to play than this. and certainly more solveable.
this dethy was just an excuse to set up a 4 mafia deathmatch. there is lots of luck involved too with random investigations getting kills. again you were never required to solve the whole thing. just enough to rekt the other factions. solving it all will be pretty hard cuz they will inevitably lie
i dont think it was bad. it delivered on what i wanted to do for awhile a 4 way match. there r probably better ways to do this, but a dethy mask seemed the most appealing. i lied to you all. i put everyone in a survivor battle when they were expecting a semi legit game. i think this was the only way to get the 4 way match done without exposing it.
the dethy part for dethy lovers like you is pretty convoluted and will be impossible to fully solve once people start getting night killed and not share results. had this being a real setup. its actually alot more solveable. here u r mostly required to solve ur team and partners sanity before the enemy. by trial and error u can solve theirs too. there is no time to sit down and draw tables like a real dethy. its much faster paced
so i fully get the frustration/disappointment. this was totally opposite of what was advertised for which u were excited to solve and play. sorry for the bummer.
@Ekkologix has become the new @AL sama . You hate to see it.
You don't need to apologise for it. I was probably the only one who actively wanted to solve it as a Dethy anyway, and it seems I'm in the minority and most people like things like this besides. You hosted what you wanted to host and there's no harm in that. Will I need to deliberate playing when I see the next Ekko game - maybe, but you have the right to host whatever you please, there will never be a reason to apologise for something not being to my tastes.
D
I agree with your take about bastard games, but I think you're misunderstanding why we're using "it's a bastard game" as an argument to Cal's complaints. Cal wasn't complaining about the game not having a puzzle to it or being unsolvable, he was complaining about being lied to. In that context, using "but it's bastard" is a good defense because at the end of the day, no matter how many puzzles you add to it, the barebones definition of a bastard game is the host lying to you. So, it makes no sense for Cal to complain about being lied to by the host when that's what a bastard game is. This doesn't excuse a bastard game being chaotic and having zero elements of an actual puzzle that players can solve in it, but it does excuse why Ekko lied to Cal.
I didn´t know the definition of a bastard game before this discussion, I thought it was just a round with super mad bastardized game mechanics 
I've only played mafia for around 2 years but still learn new things from time to time
I've discussed this now at more length with ekko privately and don't have much more to say about it
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