General & Others Post TS arcs are massively underrated + Oda is on a level with the all time fantasy greats.

#1
First off , if you don't care to read till the end then no need to reply.

Yes One Piece has its fair share of inconsistencies , flaws & puke inducing moments (eg. sanji nosebleeding , "comedy scenes" that just don't click , annoying characters like "children at PH" etc) .


Background :- Most ppl started reading One Piece after having heard about the hype around MF arc. One Piece manga sales in Japan also skyrocketed at that time. Before this amongst the Big 3 , Naruto & Bleach were considered better than One Piece by most shonen fans coz most of them hadn't even read op coz it seemed too childish to them & had read Bleach & Naruto only & i remember the constant battles between naruto fans & op fans .


1) So my point is that most of these op fans read all of these pre ts arcs in one go & not on a week to week basis. But for the post ts arcs they read them on a week to week basis. Or in some cases watched the horrendous FI,PH,Dressrosa anime (RIP them).

Basically you read pre ts arcs in 2-3 months & post ts arcs in 10 years. And this difference matters hell a lot.


2) This is my personal observation & opinion that the experience of reading an arc in one go is much better than reading it on week to week basis because while reading weekly (with breaks too) we forget a lot of things that happened even 15 chapters ago & more importantly the flow of the story is lost completely.You wont feel any emotions at all while reading a new chapter because the build up from past 10 chapters is lost coz you read them over 10 weeks.

Say a battle is going on ; then the flow of the battle will shift from protagonist's side to anatogonist's side back & forth but none of this will be visible to a weekly reader because whenever he picks it up a week later , all the tension set up by last 7 chapters is gone . (a soft reset is at play everytime you pick up the series a week later.)

3) Even if you were to reread the post ts arcs (despite of knowing all the spoilers coz we have read it already) you would in all likelihood be able to get a much better experience than when you read it weekly which would only imply that if you hadn't read them weekly initially & would have read it in one go the first time itself then your experience would have been even better.

4) The Best One Piece experience comes if you switched to One Piece manga in post ts & read it all from FI to wano in under a month & not in 10 years. Thats a huge difference of experience for the worse if you became a weekly reader post TS.(Most of you did from around 2011/2012).


5) Put simply there are 3 versions of you , each with different OP experience.
Version 1:- that version of you who read OP post ts arcs in just a month when you read it the first time .(in some alternate universe)
Version 2:- that version of you who read OP post ts arcs over 10 years weekly when you read it the first time. (in this universe)
Version 3:- that version of you who initially read post ts arcs weekly but later reread them in one go. (still possible for you just by rereading an arc)

Most of you are at version 2. Some of you are at version 3 & must have noticed already that version 3 is much better than version 2 implies version 3 >> version 2.
Now Version 1 >>> Version 3 >> Version 2 & if you read the arcs weekly during your first read then you will never get to experience version 1 (which would have been the best possible OP reading experience & would have been just like Pre TS) . But you can deduce logically that Version 1 is basically Version 3 minus all the spoilers you know already & thus Version 1 would have been an even better experience.




Infact Version 1 is how you read Pre TS arcs & Version 2 is how you read Post TS arcs. Version 1 >>> Version 3 >> Version 2.



Make your friend/cousin (someone you know good enough & someone who always had nearly very same reviews of other stories as you did...basically someone with very similar tastes in fiction as you) read OP from start to finish in under a month & you will see for yourself that even in their opinion Post TS is again far from flawless but overall OP has been the same from Alabasta to Wano.



6) tldr of everything i said above :- Post TS arcs are not even on the same level playing field with Pre TS arcs for most of you all because you read Post TS arcs much more differently than Pre TS ones.

Also when reading Pre TS arcs in one go in under a month , most of you did not spent time debating to death & hyperanalyzing after every single chapter , all of which you did for Post TS arcs. Hyperanalyzing & debating something to death day in day out will only reduce your reading experience. Spending too much time talking about a subject will make it loose its appeal over time. Stay 24*7*365 with your best friend/girl friend/wife whatever & by the end of 3-4 years , things will start to feel redundant & boring if you dont mantain a healthy distance. Same with One Piece if that's where majority of your time online is going into.

7) If you dont believe all the above then simply go ahead & check Arlong Park forum posts during pre ts arcs ; During Thriller Bark for example , most people were not impressed by "nothing happened" moment & were very critical of Kuma's actions & said that his actions didnt make any sense. Another plot induced stupidity moment etc.



NOW MOVING ON TO THE "Oda is on a level with the all time fantasy greats" :-


1) I cannot post a great analysis of One Piece because it has already been done in the best possible way by Morj (who was right about Zoro getting CoC in Wano & wrong about some other theories but when it comes to character analysis , theme analysis & other story element analysis ; he is one of the best if not the best).

JUST WATCH ANY ONE OF THE VIDEO BY HIM & YOU'LL START TO APPRECIATE THE LAYERS IN THE STORY (MOST OF WHICH YOU WOULD MISS ANYWAYS IF ALL YOU CARED ABOUT IS FIGHT SCENES & SOME "WOW" MOMENTS)

>> Why Whole Cake Island Was Underrated: The Complete Arc Analysis by Mr Morj
>> How Dressrosa Explains ALL Of One Piece by Morj (Dressrosa arc review)
>> The Deeper Themes of Wano | Complete ARC ANALYSIS by Morj (till end of Act 2)
>> The Philosophy of One Piece by Morj


^^ Just a quoting a glimpse of this last video only as in character themes of OP characters:-

World government: totalitarian divine command theory
Pirates in general: ethical egoism
Doflamingo: meta-ethical nihilism
Robin: act utilitarianism
Luffy: situational ethics
Sanji: romanticism
Zoro: stoicism / bushido
Nami: laissez-faire capitalism




I know that most of you wont watch even a single one of them but will jump straight to trashing this thread or Morj or One Piece itself & call me a Oda/One Piece/Morj fanboy ; & if you are one of them then well good luck to you , you all just want to stay shallow in your comfy eco chamber of OP bashing & i wont be wasting my time on you. After all , complaining about popular things is "cool" right kids ?!! Continue on.


For those who cared to watch even 1 video of the above , to them i would say this that there is a 25 video One Piece analysis playlist by Morj that is the best available OP analysis done by anyone i have seen so far & the 4 i mentioned above were part of that 25 video OP analysis playlist . And what you saw was just a glimpse of how well written & deeply layered (ofcourse with many flaws) the series is . You are most welcome to explore in much more depth if you liked anyone of them.





2 ) In comes 2 people -> Daniel Greene & Merphy napier :- They are not your typical manga/anime people who have the experience of reading & reviewing only animes & mangas. They are more like booktubers & fantasy critics & they picked up OP this year & have just finished Dressrosa recently. Yes they weren't fans of PH,FI either.
So they are coming from outside of our usual manga only echo chamber & i believe there opinion is very refreshing to watch pretty much because of their background.

But here is the thing when people (like Daniel & Merphy) who have read :-
The Lord of the Rings
The Count of Monte Cristo ,
The Gentleman Bastards ,
Witcher ,
Malazan ,
Wheel of Time ,
Mistborn ,
A song of Ice & Fire ,
The Stormlight Archive etc
& who have read authors like
Sanderson , Geroge RR Martin , JRR Tolkien , Pratchett , Jordan , Erikson etc & many others.


^^ when even these people say One Piece is their Top 2 (merphy) & Top 10 (daniel) series of all time , then yes i would agree with that 100%.

The only mangas they read so far was FMA (personally i found FMA to be very overrated & OP is much better than FMA any day in my book), Berserk , AoT & Death Note (so there manga reading experience is still not a lot) but more importantly they are comparing One Piece with not just other mangas as most of us do but instead with the best considered fantasy fiction stories & authors of all time & placing Oda & OP at the near top even after that. And i second that considering their background which is far more rich than people who stick only in the manga only eco chamber or just in the books/novels only echo chamber.




3) Yeah i know many of you will accuse these 2 people of choosing OP trying to increase their channel popularity (which was around 300K+ subscribers for Daniel before even starting Op & 250k+ for merphy before even starting OP... so already large enough for being a booktuber) but they could have said its a good series & left it at that instead of going out of their way & calling it top 2 or top 10 in their list & placing it amongst their previous favourites.

Just watch Daniel's Dressrosa review & Yes he didnt like FI or PH but then went out of his way to call Dressrosa equivalent to Malazan-esque.

4)Here are Daniel's words on One Piece :-

"Oda is a god damn visionary & you have to look at the structure of the story that has been built up to this point because in hindsight , yes , he is telling the emotional stories & characters so well & things like that but the structure , the pacing , the planning of the story & how that is elevating the characters so much higher up until now is truly on a level with the all time fantasy greats . I am talking Tolkien, Jordan , Erikson , Sanderson. This (oda) is a guy who is clearly planning out a fantasy epic & executing a vision that has themes , so much crazy & incredible world building.

The only reason Oda is not included in the all time top 10 greatest fantasy authors of all time list is because of the medium he writes in. If he was doing this in typical novel format , he would without question be in those conversations. "

^^ (video link to his above words) https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/ppep15


5) Merphy who has placed One Piece neck & neck with The Gentleman Bastards as her top 2 series of all time is not just a booktuber (with 300k+ subs) but also a manuscript critique professionally (people who offer detailed critique to authors before they go ahead). So reviewing plot, structure, pacing, character development and motivation, narrative prose, clunky dialogue, plot holes/inconsistencies is her daily professional job basically & she is successful enough to temporarily close her bookings for critique due to being booked a year in advance.

So yes even a flat earther has the right to vote but i would attach far more weight to opinion of people who are doing critique with great amount of success on youtube as well as in the offline world with manuscript critique being her daily profession (& on top of it she has read post ts arcs in one go + has the experience of reading & reviewing tolkien, George RR Martin , Erikson ,Sanderson etc)



6) If you are reading this manga just for fights & not also for its themes , character arcs ,lores , mysteries , world building , & several other deeper layers & story elements or couldnt find them in post ts arcs then you have just made up your mind to hate no matter what . To them i would say this :-

There was this russian youtuber who started to not like OP in WCI (which is absolutely fine) & decided to quit reading it altogether .(got to know about him from another thread on this forum).
Atleast i respect him for getting his priorities straight & quitting something if he didnt like it anymore unlike the weekly complainer leeches who cant walk the talk & quit reading the series they dont like but would rather prefer to whine like bit**es every week while not even paying for reading most of the time. No one is forcing you to read it. Get your priorities straight. Do us a favor & quit. Rest assured , you wont be missed. Good riddance.


I rest my case.
 
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#7
reddit is for the oda worship threads, I think you posted on the wrong forum sir.
So you too skipped all the points just because you saw a reddit link.

I dont even have an account on reddit let alone post there. The only reason i posted that reddit link is because thats where i found that Daniel clip.

Also consider reading all the points before commenting. I can respectfully disagree with your opinion but not if you skip all of my points & skip right away to one liner OP bashing. Thanks.

Also i am well aware how reddit mods silence certain fandoms. I am a zoro fan myself so i know that well.
 

Van

Legal Tax Evasion
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#8
Oda being great at thematic story telling doesn't make up for his poor execution. Oda is known as the "False Hype King" and for good reason, as he constantly gives so much emphasis on certain characters and plot points only to give it little to no pay off, assuming he'll even address them before 400 chapters pass.
 
#9
So you too skipped all the points just because you saw a reddit link.

I dont even have an account on reddit let alone post there. The only reason i posted that reddit link is because thats where i found that Daniel clip.

Also consider reading all the points before commenting. I can respectfully disagree with your opinion but not if you skip all of my points & skip right away to one liner OP bashing. Thanks.

Also i am well aware how reddit mods silence certain fandoms. I am a zoro fan myself so i know that well.
I'll give you my point then, take wano raid for example. 0 tension, it's like a walk in the park for the good guys. I'm falling asleep here.
 
#10
Oda being great at thematic story telling doesn't make up for his poor execution. Oda is known as the "False Hype King" and for good reason, as he constantly gives so much and emphasis on certain characters and plot points only give it little to no pay off, assuming he'll even address them before 400 chapters pass.
I would somewhat agree & disagree on that but more importantly the experience of pay off is much better when you read it in one go & not weekly over 10 years. That is what the first half of this thread is about. You are at Version 2 which is inferior to version 3 which is inferior to version 1 .
 

Van

Legal Tax Evasion
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#11
I would somewhat agree & disagree on that but more importantly the experience of pay off is much better when you read it in one go & not weekly over 10 years. That is what the first half of this thread is about. You are at Version 2 which is inferior to version 3 which is inferior to version 1 .
I've read poskskip week to week and reread in one go though. I don't see how this changes Oda's execution and writing issues regardless of how one reads OP. They're still present.
 
#12
Holy shit lmao

Well, I think OP in general is pretty underrated. A lot of people are either impatient with a bigger picture of the serial story, or they are anal about some irrelevant understanding (power levels). Of course it's flawed as it's largely the work of one man, but that's not the same as a poor product.

I like when they complain about OP and suck off those dirty ass scribbles called HXH, lol
 
#13
Videos are a laughable medium for an analysis pretending to be serious. Just took a look at the video of this Daniel Greene guy you shared and he feels like the umpteenth "critic" with an empty discourse and over-the-top exposition. The reason why someone like Tolkien is agreed as one of the greatest is that actual scholars have properly studied him and supported their claims with solid foundations (I mean, at least I hope Morj or however he's called gives proper support to Nami representing laissez-faire capitalism and Oda actually knowing such concept instead of cherry-picking vague commonalities so he turns a greedy character into a philosophical symbol).

Let proper scholars and experts study this series and share their work through elaborated texts instead of YouTube videos and similar formats for the average viewer who can't stand complex dissertations and then maybe we can discuss Oda being one of the greatest.
 
#15
Holy shit lmao

Well, I think OP in general is pretty underrated. A lot of people are either impatient with a bigger picture of the serial story, or they are anal about some irrelevant understanding (power levels). Of course it's flawed as it's largely the work of one man, but that's not the same as a poor product.

I like when they complain about OP and suck off those dirty ass scribbles called HXH, lol
I like both HxH and One Piece. I consider the chimera Ant arc the greatest in shonen.
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So One Piece praise isn't allowed here? Only complaints?
 
#16
I'll give you my point then, take wano raid for example. 0 tension, it's like a walk in the park for the good guys. I'm falling asleep here.
First off , as i mentioned in the first half of the thread ->You are at Version 2 which is inferior to version 3 which is inferior to version 1.
The things visible to a version 1 or 2 reader wont be to weekly readers.

The other reasons why people feel there is no tension is because:-

To them all problems appear to be sorted. -> Every SH & their ally will win their respective 1 v 1 fights followed by Luffy coming up with a magic bullet & winning his 1 v 1 vs Kaido & thats it . All over. oh what about BM ? never mind she has always helped the SHs directly or indirectly so no need to think about her. Oh no the arc lacks so much tension. Damn One Piece has lost quality.

This affinity to rant clouds over everything else.

Let me help you feel the tension in this arc (if you genuinely want to enjoy the arc...then please remove the following misconceptions):-

1) Don't assume & take for granted that Luffy will win 1v1 against Kaido this time. Kaido alone can turn around the tides single handedly.
All those CP-0 go board game showing how things are turning towards SHs is just a distraction coz Kaido alone is worth several stones on that game of go.

Kaido hasnt even been pushed to the point that he would need to comeback with his awakened Zoan powers like jack was.

2)Don't assume that Big Mom will be a beneficial or a non factor. She is very likely to be the Kuma of this arc , the difference being she wont show any mercy. Law & Kidd can just stall her for some more time but they will run out of gas much before her & would not do any considerable damage to her either. Oda can in an instant make her as threatning as Kaido & all her failings of this & previous arc a non factor thing of past.

^^ This has even been foreshadowed by Marco back when he fought BM & said :- "I know more than any of them what kind of danger you pose".

We are up against 2 yonko captains. There is not enough manpower , likely candidate or plan B on SH's side to take on both Kaido & Big Mom even as of now. There is only Luffy who with a new power up can at max bring down Kaido but no one comes even close to damaging BM let alone defeating her.

The only assurance that we have is that our protagonists wont die.Thats it.

3)Dont assume CP-0 to be passive non factors. CP-0 is still waiting for both sides to destroy each other to their max & then take action. CP-0 is another candidate to become Kuma in this arc. And they wont show mercy like Kuma either.

4)Dont be fooled by the falling down of 30,000 Beast pirates, Numbers,Flying 6 & Calamaties & Perespero etc coz the main factor is Kaido & Big Mom.
Law,Kidd,Yamato,Marco,Adult momo, Zoro etc no one can beat even 1 yonko let alone 2. Luffy is the only one who can at max beat Kaido but you are still left with Big Mom who will not show you any mercy.

By the way at this point in story + with the help of so many allies & plot points , the falling down of 30,000 Beast pirates, Numbers,Flying 6 & Calamaties etc does not make the Beast Pirates a joke or a failure. This is the least amount of progress & success you would expect from our protagonists who have so much help.

5)Kaido or Big Mom both i would argue have the ability to take down all of the 30,000 Beast pirates, Numbers,Flying 6 & Calamaties by themselves.
So even after defeating 30,000 Beast pirates, Numbers,Flying 6 & Calamaties , the job is just 33% done with no manpower other than Luffy left to do 66% of the rest of the job. Add CP-0 to it as well who also want to kill you & capture Robin.


6) Looking at the current situation -> Obstacles yet to overcome are -> Kaido -> Big Mom (wants to capture Robin & ofcourse take a revenge on SHs)+ Smoothie,Daifuku & BMPs ->CP-0 -> Navy (incoming Admirals most probably). Dont assume that some of these obstacles will start to fight one another just to make it convinient enough for SHs to win it all & claim wano to be their territory just like that.

On another note (the following point is not adressed to you @omegalul ) i have seen fans behave like :-

Oda chooses to use plot convenience . Toxic fans : - No tension ; Disappointing ; Falsely hyped villans etc.

Oda chooses to not use plot convenience . Toxic fans :- What an a**pull ; One Piece has become Fairy Tail trash; No power lvl consistency etc

Oda chooses to finish F6 fights quickly . Toxic fans :- No tension ; Disappointing ; Falsely hyped villans etc

Oda chooses to flesh out F6 fights . Toxic fans :- Wasting panels ; Wrap up Wano already etc

LOL hypocrites of the highest order smh.
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Holy shit lmao

Well, I think OP in general is pretty underrated. A lot of people are either impatient with a bigger picture of the serial story, or they are anal about some irrelevant understanding (power levels). Of course it's flawed as it's largely the work of one man, but that's not the same as a poor product.

I like when they complain about OP and suck off those dirty ass scribbles called HXH, lol
I personally liked HxH for the most part & if continued then the future of HxH seems to have a lot of potential.
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 ⚛️
.
#17
I loved Pre TS. Beautiful Pirate-like moments we didn't encounter so often later, in pure classical Pirate style. This is something the Post TS missed more. Also more involving of ships and naval battling despite not so much still, and of course a difference sense of adventure and mystery because things were much more mysterious than they are now as we got introduced to almost anything of the world map principal locations wise, probably.
 
#18
Videos are a laughable medium for an analysis pretending to be serious. Just took a look at the video of this Daniel Greene guy you shared and he feels like the umpteenth "critic" with an empty discourse and over-the-top exposition. The reason why someone like Tolkien is agreed as one of the greatest is that actual scholars have properly studied him and supported their claims with solid foundations (I mean, at least I hope Morj or however he's called gives proper support to Nami representing laissez-faire capitalism and Oda actually knowing such concept instead of cherry-picking vague commonalities so he turns a greedy character into a philosophical symbol).

Let proper scholars and experts study this series and share their work through elaborated texts instead of YouTube videos and similar formats for the average viewer who can't stand complex dissertations and then maybe we can discuss Oda being one of the greatest.
So have those scholars & experts that you mentioned even picked up a manga ? Because manga is a different medium altogether , most of these experts dont even pick it up in the first place. If they do pick them up in future then i will listen to their opinion as well.

But people who have read only mangas or only novels (like most of those scholars or experts) cannot even make a proper comparison simply because they havent even tried an epic fantasy fiction just coz it was from a different medium.

Daniel & Merphy have atleast attempted that. And if you find Daniel to be an empty discourse guy , then well first off , it was just a clip.
You can watch his Wheel of time, Malazan review & compare it with his OP arc reviews. Also Merphy is far more commited on this than Daniel.
 
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#19
First off , as i mentioned in the first half of the thread ->You are at Version 2 which is inferior to version 3 which is inferior to version 1.
The things visible to a version 1 or 2 reader wont be to weekly readers.

The other reasons why people feel there is no tension is because:-

To them all problems appear to be sorted. -> Every SH & their ally will win their respective 1 v 1 fights followed by Luffy coming up with a magic bullet & winning his 1 v 1 vs Kaido & thats it . All over. oh what about BM ? never mind she has always helped the SHs directly or indirectly so no need to think about her. Oh no the arc lacks so much tension. Damn One Piece has lost quality.

This affinity to rant clouds over everything else.

Let me help you feel the tension in this arc (if you genuinely want to enjoy the arc...then please remove the following misconceptions):-

1) Don't assume & take for granted that Luffy will win 1v1 against Kaido this time. Kaido alone can turn around the tides single handedly.
All those CP-0 go board game showing how things are turning towards SHs is just a distraction coz Kaido alone is worth several stones on that game of go.

Kaido hasnt even been pushed to the point that he would need to comeback with his awakened Zoan powers like jack was.

2)Don't assume that Big Mom will be a beneficial or a non factor. She is very likely to be the Kuma of this arc , the difference being she wont show any mercy. Law & Kidd can just stall her for some more time but they will run out of gas much before her & would not do any considerable damage to her either. Oda can in an instant make her as threatning as Kaido & all her failings of this & previous arc a non factor thing of past.

^^ This has even been foreshadowed by Marco back when he fought BM & said :- "I know more than any of them what kind of danger you pose".

We are up against 2 yonko captains. There is not enough manpower , likely candidate or plan B on SH's side to take on both Kaido & Big Mom even as of now. There is only Luffy who with a new power up can at max bring down Kaido but no one comes even close to damaging BM let alone defeating her.

The only assurance that we have is that our protagonists wont die.Thats it.

3)Dont assume CP-0 to be passive non factors. CP-0 is still waiting for both sides to destroy each other to their max & then take action. CP-0 is another candidate to become Kuma in this arc. And they wont show mercy like Kuma either.

4)Dont be fooled by the falling down of 30,000 Beast pirates, Numbers,Flying 6 & Calamaties & Perespero etc coz the main factor is Kaido & Big Mom.
Law,Kidd,Yamato,Marco,Adult momo, Zoro etc no one can beat even 1 yonko let alone 2. Luffy is the only one who can at max beat Kaido but you are still left with Big Mom who will not show you any mercy.

By the way at this point in story + with the help of so many allies & plot points , the falling down of 30,000 Beast pirates, Numbers,Flying 6 & Calamaties etc does not make the Beast Pirates a joke or a failure. This is the least amount of progress & success you would expect from our protagonists who have so much help.

5)Kaido or Big Mom both i would argue have the ability to take down all of the 30,000 Beast pirates, Numbers,Flying 6 & Calamaties by themselves.
So even after defeating 30,000 Beast pirates, Numbers,Flying 6 & Calamaties , the job is just 33% done with no manpower other than Luffy left to do 66% of the rest of the job. Add CP-0 to it as well who also want to kill you & capture Robin.


6) Looking at the current situation -> Obstacles yet to overcome are -> Kaido -> Big Mom (wants to capture Robin & ofcourse take a revenge on SHs)+ Smoothie,Daifuku & BMPs ->CP-0 -> Navy (incoming Admirals most probably). Dont assume that some of these obstacles will start to fight one another just to make it convinient enough for SHs to win it all & claim wano to be their territory just like that.

On another note (the following point is not adressed to you @omegalul ) i have seen fans behave like :-

Oda chooses to use plot convenience . Toxic fans : - No tension ; Disappointing ; Falsely hyped villans etc.

Oda chooses to not use plot convenience . Toxic fans :- What an a**pull ; One Piece has become Fairy Tail trash; No power lvl consistency etc

Oda chooses to finish F6 fights quickly . Toxic fans :- No tension ; Disappointing ; Falsely hyped villans etc

Oda chooses to flesh out F6 fights . Toxic fans :- Wasting panels ; Wrap up Wano already etc

LOL hypocrites of the highest order smh.
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I personally liked HxH for the most part & if continued then the future of HxH seems to have a lot of potential.
People complain always. All the way back to enies lobby and marineford. Nothing new
 
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