Powers & Abilities Power that doesn't suit the characters and how to redeem it

[uyuu]

Luffy the most straightforward fighter ever, and instead of getting an ability that increase his attack speed to surpass Katakuri's FS, what Luffy get was...FS. wow so wow. What is this? Why did Oda make Luffy's power like this?

Also Sanji. He was cool with gentleman suit and vibe. And now he becomes a bootleg super sentai? A sailormoon suit? What on earth was Oda thinking? Can't he just get...something else as a power-up? Anything else at all?

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Do you think sometimes Oda gave power that doesn't suit a character? Who is/are the character/s that got inappropriate power? What is a better power-up scenario to those characters in your opinion?

 

[Fn Lucci]

They suit the characters in that you don't just predict them. Like you didn't say what you'd give Sanji... no offense, but probably something boring. Oda is actually great at power up ideas if you see how he extrapolates qualities of a character, it's just that the execution can be haphazard.

Anyway, you start by saying Luffy is very straightforward so I don't know what you want.

 

[Germa66]

Unpopular opinion: Raid Suit ruined Sanji

I love Germa but Sanji needs to drop that suit after this arc. Never in a million years would I have imagined the direction Oda has taken with him way back in the Pre Timeskip era or even Dressrosa

 

[Ryuarashi]

Luffy has displayed a calm composure multiple times in the past, at first glance it's seem odd to why Oda gave him future sight but he already showed a hint of it at MF vs Mihawk.

I completely agree about Sanji, instead of getting stronger through "natural" means he gets shitty raidsuit that squeezes his ass.

 

[draganax]

Nami, she was very proud of her weather science and usopp's technology, now she has zues, can do everything she can do but better, she just has to feed him.
Franky and the sword, i know it lokks cool, but it doesn't suit his character design.
Zoro not using CoA for defense, he's supposed to be specialist in that type yet he didn't use it against hawkins and let himself be damaged by nails, he didn't use it vs killer and he allowe himself to get stabbed, all of thay just to develop the plotlines of kiku treatibg zoro, and hiyori healing him,which is kinda PIS.

 

[uyuu]

They suit the characters in that you don't just predict them. Like you didn't say what you'd give Sanji... no offense, but probably something boring. Oda is actually great at power up ideas if you see how he extrapolates qualities of a character, it's just that the execution can be haphazard.

Anyway, you start by saying Luffy is very straightforward so I don't know what you want.

Okay i'd try to think about suitable power-up ideas immediately as i type now.

For Sanji:

If we want powerup aligning with Judge story, Sanji can unlocking Judge "failed" (revealed later to be dormant instead of failed) genetic manipulation. Be it during timeskip or during his story arc in WCI, with these as optional effect:

- ability to change skin pigmentation like chameleon (like invisibility, but more genetic mutation vibe to it. For combat and perverse purposes)

- manipulated skin cells, reducing movement friction to zero (can move and maneuver without air resistance or parry physical attacks with near-zero injuries as the effects)

- altered brain function, able to detect and hijack any tech signals (tap into enemy's communication etc. Espionage vibes) or ability to insert false biological infos/signs o the enemies' brain (use in combat: insert info to the enemies' brain that you want to hit with right leg while you actually hit them with left etc, insert infos about false tactics)

- altered physiology of the bones: absorb metals or minerals that came into contact with Sanji's bones (for example enemy's sword cutting through the skin and reaching the bones), and reinforcing the metals' hardness unto Sanji's own bones.


I guess i can think of powerups that are not so boring since Oda had provided solid characters as basic materials.

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For Luffy...about ideas for Luffy's powerup to be physically stronger or faster or more explosive in fights without having to rely on intricate / intelligence-type of powers like reading the future...i believe i had posted more than one ideas in separate threads.

 

[Lhulu]

Ussop is the worst.
He was an extremely creative inventor and had enormous potential with dials.
However, Oda decided to give him a set of random plants that are extremely convenient for different types of situations.

 

[ConquistadoR]

i wanted sanji to learn rokushiki or some other martial art form from the revolutionaries during the timeskip. he did learn skywalk though.

imagine diable jambe with rankayaku - a blazing rankyaku.

also cp0's speciality is espionage would suit pre timeksip sanji who had a lot of espionage vibes to him.

but sigh.

 

[Abysmal]

Raid suit is one of the stupidest designs, made Sanji break his words and wear it aswell, Oda said he wanted to do like a robots manga after OP and I think he's just implementing some ideas from it into OP itself.

 

[uyuu]

Raid suit is one of the stupidest designs, made Sanji break his words and wear it aswell, Oda said he wanted to do like a robots manga after OP and I think he's just implementing some ideas from it into OP itself.

 

[Lhulu]

i wanted sanji to learn rokushiki or some other martial art form from the revolutionaries during the timeskip. he did learn skywalk though.

imagine diable jambe with rankayaku - a blazing rankyaku.

also cp0's speciality is espionage would suit pre timeksip sanji who had a lot of espionage vibes to him.

but sigh.

The problem with RS it's because it makes TS be useless for Sanjino(except haki learning).
The only rokushiki he learn, Gepou, doesn't make sense now that RS's boosts can make him fly(and more fast).

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

Focusing on the Straw Hats:

Luffy gaining an ability that allows him to hit without touching sounds dumb on paper for a character who is based on enhancing through elasticity and such. We will see how this is solved.

Raid Suit is indeed horrible for Sanji. He doesn't need anything from Judge, he needs to apply cooking to fighting, improve his fire, etc. It's a crime that he came back from the timeskip knowing skywalk yet was given a suit that allows him to float without effort. I'd have rather him to use okama techniques than this suit that doesn't fit him in any reasonable way.

Usopp's plants are inferior to dials, trickery, etc. and this "gardener style" pretty much came out of the blue for him. He had the most interesting fights yet I can't think of anything entertaining for the last ten years.

I actually don't like Franky Shogun. While it makes sense because of obvious reasons, Franky by himself is way more versatile. Remember his centaur? Remember his throwaway sideburns? Remember his nails? Remember his pillar nunchakus...?

Chopper hasn't been interesting since his first fight in Drum, so he's a lost case.

Nami is okay, could make better use of her abilities but stayed consistent and I like Zeus. Brook could take more advantage of his music but he's okay too, same for Zoro I guess (doesn't have much going on, keeps being the same self), Robin and Jinbe (from the fishman I expect some creative usages of his water abilities, though).

 

[ConquistadoR]

The problem with RS it's because it makes TS be useless for Sanjino(except haki learning).
The only rokushiki he learn, Gepou, doesn't make sense now that RS's boosts can make him fly(and more fast).

exactly.

although there is some character potential with the raidsuit. in the chapter where he saves momo ~ he tells him that momo acknowledged his family name like a man.

it is ironic that it is said by someone who constantly refuses to acknowledge his vinsmoke heritage. i hope that scene allows for more character growth in that direction for sanji wherein he finally accepts his name and heritage ~ maybe after the germa family is dead or something (i dont think jinbe, the sun pirates AND the germa family all escaped totto land unscathed ~ that's too good to be true. someone wouldve to sacrifice themselves as the rear guard and it kinda makes sense for the germa family to do so, entrusting the future and legacy of their country to sanji. that's a totally different topic of discussion though).

im glad @uyuu made this thread. i was attacked for saying the same thing a while ago by sanji fans in the spoilers waiting room - that enma was a more natural and well written powerup narratively than the raidsuit which was just given to sanji and goes against everything sanji stood for.

 

[Finalbeta]

"and instead of getting an ability that increase his attack speed to surpass Katakuri's FS, what Luffy get was...FS. wow so wow"

I mean Snakeman literally served to that purpose.

 

[uyuu]

exactly.

although there is some character potential with the raidsuit. in the chapter where he saves momo ~ he tells him that momo acknowledged his family name like a man.

it is ironic that it is said by someone who constantly refuses to acknowledge his vinsmoke heritage. i hope that scene allows for more character growth in that direction for sanji wherein he finally accepts his name and heritage ~ maybe after the germa family is dead or something (i dont think jinbe, the sun pirates AND the germa family all escaped totto land unscathed ~ that's too good to be true. someone wouldve to sacrifice themselves as the rear guard and it kinda makes sense for the germa family to do so, entrusting the future and legacy of their country to sanji. that's a totally different topic of discussion though).

im glad @uyuu made this thread. i was attacked for saying the same thing a while ago by sanji fans in the spoilers waiting room - that enma was a more natural and well written powerup narratively than the raidsuit which was just given to sanji and goes against everything sanji stood for.

The thing is i said all this stuff about Sanji having meh powers is exactly because i like pre-TS Sanji very much, just like how i like pre-TS Zoro so much as well.

"and instead of getting an ability that increase his attack speed to surpass Katakuri's FS, what Luffy get was...FS. wow so wow"

I mean Snakeman literally served to that purpose.

No i mean if Snakeman boost the speed, why must give Luffy FS as well? Just let Snakeman became the game changer that finally able to pressure and finally beat Kata with unpredictability and thats it. Snakeman's design is meh but at least the zig zagging thing and the focus on attack speed and being unpredictable is good, no need for FS on the top of that if Oda want Luffy to beat Kata.

 

[humanbeing]

Luffy can have every possible haki power up . so Luffy having FS was just right. it suits him too for sure being fearless and calm no matter who the enemy is. FS can only be countered by advanced observation.

 

[Ryuarashi]

No i mean if Snakeman boost the speed, why must give Luffy FS as well? Just let Snakeman became the game changer that finally able to pressure and finally beat Kata with unpredictability and thats it. Snakeman's design is meh but at least the zig zagging thing and the focus on attack speed and being unpredictable is good, no need for FS on the top of that if Oda want Luffy to beat Kata.

In this case he needed FS.

The unpredictability of Snakeman only lasted a few seconds when Luffy first attacked with it.

Katakuri was only confused for a moment, then after that Snakeman could barely keep up with him.

Snakeman alone was not enough to what Oda protrayed

 

[uyuu]

In this case he needed FS.

The unpredictability of Snakeman only lasted a few seconds when Luffy first attacked with it.

Katakuri was only confused for a moment, then after that Snakeman could barely keep up with him.

Snakeman alone was not enough to what Oda protrayed

Yeah he need FS since Oda designed that Snakeman wasn't enough. My point is why didn't Oda just decide that Snakeman is enough since it's the more suitable power-up to Luffy that is speed-focused and maneuver-focused? Oda can always make Snakeman technique attacks keep getting faster than Kata's FS until finally Luffy barrages Kata without Kata being able to keep up with misdirections and feints and speed unseen to sight, even future sight.

Why must Luffy get FS as well, imitating the enemy's one-of-a-kind ability instead of winning due to inventing his own original solution? ...the powerlevel stuff is not the point i want in this discussion tho, more like i think the FS powerup is not suitable to Luffy's fighting style and Oda can invent more suitable power instead.

Focusing on the Straw Hats:

Luffy gaining an ability that allows him to hit without touching sounds dumb on paper for a character who is based on enhancing through elasticity and such. We will see how this is solved.

Raid Suit is indeed horrible for Sanji. He doesn't need anything from Judge, he needs to apply cooking to fighting, improve his fire, etc. It's a crime that he came back from the timeskip knowing skywalk yet was given a suit that allows him to float without effort. I'd have rather him to use okama techniques than this suit that doesn't fit him in any reasonable way.

Usopp's plants are inferior to dials, trickery, etc. and this "gardener style" pretty much came out of the blue for him. He had the most interesting fights yet I can't think of anything entertaining for the last ten years.

I actually don't like Franky Shogun. While it makes sense because of obvious reasons, Franky by himself is way more versatile. Remember his centaur? Remember his throwaway sideburns? Remember his nails? Remember his pillar nunchakus...?

Chopper hasn't been interesting since his first fight in Drum, so he's a lost case.

Nami is okay, could make better use of her abilities but stayed consistent and I like Zeus. Brook could take more advantage of his music but he's okay too, same for Zoro I guess (doesn't have much going on, keeps being the same self), Robin and Jinbe (from the fishman I expect some creative usages of his water abilities, though).

Actually i like Chopper's Horn Point, digging to fight was original but it was too quickly overshadowed by Monster Point. Its like a power that is getting useless and trashed way too quickly as soon as Chopper fight against anyone relevant.

Agreed on Usopp btw, seeing the trickster become plant warrior is...i dunno, less fun maybe?

 

[Fn Lucci]

Okay i'd try to think about suitable power-up ideas immediately as i type now.

For Sanji:

If we want powerup aligning with Judge story, Sanji can unlocking Judge "failed" (revealed later to be dormant instead of failed) genetic manipulation. Be it during timeskip or during his story arc in WCI, with these as optional effect:

- ability to change skin pigmentation like chameleon (like invisibility, but more genetic mutation vibe to it. For combat and perverse purposes)

- manipulated skin cells, reducing movement friction to zero (can move and maneuver without air resistance or parry physical attacks with near-zero injuries as the effects)

- altered brain function, able to detect and hijack any tech signals (tap into enemy's communication etc. Espionage vibes) or ability to insert false biological infos/signs o the enemies' brain (use in combat: insert info to the enemies' brain that you want to hit with right leg while you actually hit them with left etc, insert infos about false tactics)

- altered physiology of the bones: absorb metals or minerals that came into contact with Sanji's bones (for example enemy's sword cutting through the skin and reaching the bones), and reinforcing the metals' hardness unto Sanji's own bones.


I guess i can think of powerups that are not so boring since Oda had provided solid characters as basic materials.

---

For Luffy...about ideas for Luffy's powerup to be physically stronger or faster or more explosive in fights without having to rely on intricate / intelligence-type of powers like reading the future...i believe i had posted more than one ideas in separate threads.

People who assert the idea that Sanji failed at failing or whatever miss the point. The point isn't that Judge was wrong and Sanji turned out to be the son he wanted. At the end of WCI, he still can't see what makes Sanji great even though he actually sees it. On Sanji's end, that goes even further against his own beliefs than the Raid Suit does since he can't control or get rid of it.

Most of that other stuff is ironically built on the Raid Suit. It's not at all how Oda has ever written so it sounds out of place. If you're just trying to say that there are ways to make him more powerful than he is... well of course.

When it comes to Luffy, reading the future is not about general intelligence. Luffy is emotionally intelligent and unconsciously a brilliant combatant. That's always been the case. But he's also reckless, so each of his new abilities give power and a drawback. Future sight supplements speed and decision making, but because he's so emotionally inclined and goes with his heart before his head, he's often not calm enough to use it effectively. For example

 

[uyuu]

People who assert the idea that Sanji failed at failing or whatever miss the point. The point isn't that Judge was wrong and Sanji turned out to be the son he wanted. At the end of WCI, he still can't see what makes Sanji great even though he actually sees it. On Sanji's end, that goes even further against his own beliefs than the Raid Suit does since he can't control or get rid of it.

Most of that other stuff is ironically built on the Raid Suit. It's not at all how Oda has ever written so it sounds out of place. If you're just trying to say that there are ways to make him more powerful than he is... well of course.

No i'm not building those ideas out of Raid Suit except for the chameleon stuff. The Raid Suit makes Sanji invisible but aside from that it just a plain physical powerup (faster stronger etc), while Sanji can potentially do much more tactical/clever fight than that, so Judge's DNA-altering stuff alone can be tweaked to Sanji awakening his potential in combat through various method. The brainwave and bone stuff have no relation to Raid Suit whatsoever, Sanji can get it anywhere. He can invent nutrition pills during timeskip that boosts his brain to produce manipulation effects, he can modify Okama's Power Recipe to form a specific diet routine that enhance his bone to have absorbing properties, he can discover that him being a failure in having exoskeleton actually has a side effect (hidden advantage) that manipulates his skin, whatever.

I'm not addressing how to make him powerful either, Raid Suit is just rather lazy design and application for me. It does have pervert homage / throwback to Absalom's power, but it gives lazy powerup which require no effort/creativity from the user. It doesn't suit Sanji's potential in combat or tactics.

"Here's a Suit, it protects you and make you stronger overall instantly. It also has invisibility as a gimmick. Oh and also it has much crappier and kiddie design compared to the elegant suit and shirt you usually wear."

Thats what i think.