[FNZ] Role Madness Round 08: Tokyo Ghoul

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Finalbeta

Oda's accuser
@Celestia

There's one big problem with your behaviour. You are enlightening how HA001 only posted fluff so far, yet why didn't you label him as anti town from the very start if you are now asserting he fared bad since the very start of the game?

You had him Neutral not long ago, and he had already behaved the way you are picturing him.
 
C

Celestia

@Celestia

There's one big problem with your behaviour. You are enlightening how HA001 only posted fluff so far, yet why didn't you label him as anti town from the very start if you are now asserting he fared bad since the very start of the game?

You had him Neutral not long ago, and he had already behaved the way you are picturing him.
Neutral doesn't mean he is neutral it mean I am not sure where to put him
After that his playing didn't get any better too

Again I didn't put him as the towniest townie and lynch him so i don't get this nitpicking
 
Neutral doesn't mean he is neutral it mean I am not sure where to put him
After that his playing didn't get any better too

Again I didn't put him as the towniest townie and lynch him so i don't get this nitpicking
What do you mean my playing didnt get better.
Why is your playing style better than mine ? As far as im concerned being a townie and you pushing this so much says to me you dont have a clue what youre doing and vastly overrate how good you read this game.
 

Kiwipom

Ghost Princess
Celestia have you considered that HA001 only posts “fluff” because he is a newbie? Your argument for lynching him isn’t completely unreasonable but I think you should re-evaluate a bit.
This is all your posts in the game

You start as random posting nothing much to note





Then with TAC vs Bogard you started to throw comments but you didn't really involve yourself in the discussion
Some of those comments were just trolling








Only post that isn't that bad



When someone said I sused you that how you reply, again trolling
you say here u sus bogard but u are so quick to jump on a lynch for lynch vote on me


After I said you aren't contributing to the game u start deflecting the thing on me

Trying to throw shades with dum posts like these and it wasn't that long time that I went offline



Again deflecting this on me instead of trying like an actual player if you were town you would have at least made some efforts but instead you go omgus

and how I am panicking?
Your reasons to why you voted me are laughable
But @Celestia I suggest you take a look at HA001’s posts last game. I don’t think he is acting outside his meta. Of course, it’s only one game so it’s not indicative nor does it town clear him. But I don’t think these posts warrant enough to pin him as a scum. A newbie most likely won’t be leading town with scum hunting early on but at least he is answering questions when asked and questioning actions when he sees it as fishy.
And whose your biggest sus
@Dragomir bogard could be right or he could be doing this on purpose to get rid of tac. But i get aggressive play to an extent (like reborn did) but even then he backed down at the end but bogard aint. And whats not sitting is on day 1 when tac hasnt really done anything how can he be so sure
Id prefer a no lynch on the basis we may be wrong if someones sure then im not against it. But it can put us on the wrong foot.


As for sus honestly dont have a clue but if you want a name id say bogard probably, i know you said it was just a pressure tactic but hes still kept at it and is willing to vote tac for something so innocuous. I even asked around and most agreed he had no real basis to do so. So whilst it aint much hes the most sus for me but like i said i dont have that much of an idea.
 
N

NeutralWatcher

How many hours do we have left? A little less than 24, right? Just wanna be sure, if I need to rush myself or not.
It has been four and thirty hours since Noctis posted that so I think nineteen and half hours left
 
You currently got 5 votes on your head. Will you start doing something now?

What about your reads?
I gave mine earlier in response to reborn's in an earlier comment .
celestia word choice on placing a vote on ha001
if she's townie she isnt willing to collaborate at all
and her reason for insisting on a lynch on a neutral player over a bad read is sketchy as well. Not much else to analyze.
 
general comment *
we dont know who the other townies are so depending on someone else to give you a breakdown is lazy.
Be sure to check previous post as much as you can. we have discussed 27 pages worth of info and I keep getting asked info on reads I have giving before. The exact same reason why people feel others are parroting the same opinion by more experienced players is in large part due to players here not willing to sift through 27 pages of info.
being a good player here requires you to detect slight slips , inconsistency and all of that can be seen if you just take time to read through all post. Dont hop on pg 27 and keep asking for info that been given 2 pages prior.
 

Don DaSlayer

The Peerless swordsman
general comment *
we dont know who the other townies are so depending on someone else to give you a breakdown is lazy.
Be sure to check previous post as much as you can. we have discussed 27 pages worth of info and I keep getting asked info on reads I have giving before. The exact same reason why people feel others are parroting the same opinion by more experienced players is in large part due to players here not willing to sift through 27 pages of info.
being a good player here requires you to detect slight slips , inconsistency and all of that can be seen if you just take time to read through all post. Dont hop on pg 27 and keep asking for info that been given 2 pages prior.
He said that he was gonna carry town but hasn’t done anything .
 

Reborn

~~Surpass Your Limits, Right here, Right now~~
I am speechless


Here is Celestia case
What you think about this?






She clearly put HA in neutral category. HA hasn't said anything suspicious after that.

But then she is fine with HA(neutral read) or Don(bad read) lynch despite having NW as bad read, all red as not so townie read, having same read on Bogard of forcing tac Lynch and being wary of drago.

How come anyone would call for lynch for someone he/she consider neutral over few others on whom they have bad reads/not so townie read.

If you want to have lynch then it's better to go with whom you find sus or not so townie than neutral

But this goes beyond just asking lynch on ha despite having few as more primary sus.

This is Celestia calling Ha neutral and don bad.

HA001 - neutral
I mostly skimmed through some of his posts , mostly it is all about TAC vS Bogard I don't see anything of good substance to his posts

Don Slayer - Bad
very random comments and none of his posts are beneficial to the game asked him to focus on the active players more and tell me his thoughts on them

just repeating what everyone think about the T vs B and not bothering to engage in the game or tell anything on other players even after this post
I found this weird so I asked him why HA has been put in neutral but don in bad category?
to which she replied
look at their posts
don is not doing anything beneficial to the game while being online and just dropping unrelated comments
HA isn't doing much but he isn't being very random like Don

because I think so
Look at the highlighted part - HA isn't doing much but he isn't random so that's why she put him in neutral read.

Whats neutral read? A player who can swing both ways and it doesn't necessarily Imply that he would be scum

What's bad read? A player whom you think is likely to be sus.

As a townie our purpose is not to weed out less active townie but Scums.

Now look at this post of Celestia on HA. I have highlighted two key points

This is all your posts in the game

You start as random posting nothing much to note
Then with TAC vs Bogard you started to throw comments but you didn't really involve yourself in the discussion
Some of those comments were just trolling
Only post that isn't that bad
When someone said I sused you that how you reply, again trolling
you say here u sus bogard but u are so quick to jump on a lynch for lynch vote on me

After I said you aren't contributing to the game u start deflecting the thing on me
Trying to throw shades with dum posts like these
and it wasn't that long time that I went offline

Again deflecting this on me instead of trying like an actual player if you were town you would have at least made some efforts but instead you go omgus

and how I am panicking?
Your reasons to why you voted me are laughable
First highlighted part - Celestia found ha makins
 

Reborn

~~Surpass Your Limits, Right here, Right now~~
Celestia found HA making random Post.... but wait? Didn't she say earlier that HA isn't random? That's inconsistency and Imply she has no case on HA


Second, HA didn't try to deflect. He asked why she wants him Lynched and it's valid question. But instead of accepting that she made mistake she kept on pushing ha case hard....


My vote stays on Celestia
 

Reborn

~~Surpass Your Limits, Right here, Right now~~
Typo. 65 - 75% Town means a random Lynch is likely to hit Town.


You've listed several of the reasons Don's play has been Scummy, so I wouldn't belabour them here. Looking at Don's play, he's either a Scum trying to coast (he has also consistently been deflecting attention to inactives/other players), or a very bad Town player. Knowing how Don played in the last game, I can't rule out the latter hypothesis. What I would categorise Don's play as is unhelpful. Whether he's Scum or Town, he has been completely unhelpful (and actively harmful by trying to deflect suspicion) in the 20 pages I've read.

If I had strong reasons to suspect someone to be Scum, I would prefer Lynching them over a player that was merely unhelpful (but whose alignment I was unsure of), but if I had to Lynch a player when I don't have strong Scum reads, I would rather Lynch unhelpful players (it's why after Don I would go after the inactives).

To explain my perspective more, I mentioned last game that I'm asymmetric as a player — I'm much better at avoiding suspicion as Scum than I am at Scumhunting as Town — and I had a few wrong reads during last game. As such, just because someone appears Scummy to me, I can't consider that strong evidence that they are in fact Scum. I have to factor in the fact that I'm not a very good Scumhunter and apriori I would expect a substantial fraction of my reads to be wrong.

Factoring in my lack of ability, to decide who to Lynch D1, I adopt a heuristic of going after the player who if I was wrong on them and they were indeed Town, I would regret it the least. That leads me to prefer the most unhelpful player, and as of Page 20 that was @Don DaSlayer.


@Reborn the above is an extension of my earlier answer, so you'd probably want to see it.
Your argument that we should lynch don because he has been unhelpful is beyond my understanding.

Many players here are new and don't know how to pick reads. They rely on info sharing to catch Scums. Expecting from such players to contribute more in no claim game that too on first day of the game is beyond my understanding.

Also, there is huge list of inactive and more unhelpful players - playa, rej, all red, rayan, yo tan wa and few more. Picking on ha and don from amongst them is just wild case of lynching which has no basis.

Second, in every game there are few highly active Townie, few relatively less townie and few inactive townie. Scums try to blend among them.

Our purpose isnt to weed out those who aren't helpful. Why? Because it's like shooting in the blind and helping scums reduce townie Numbers.

Our purpose is to scum hunt and catch player who is makin slips because that's what lynch is about.

Now I am not saying that inactive or less helpful players can't be scum. But it's better to invest them First or wait for more day activities to be sure of whether they are Scums laying low key or just bad townie who aren't contributing.




To me, scum hunting isn't just about catching Scums but also to avoid mislynch as much as possible. Celestia made very prominent slips and I will prefer her Lynch.


Now she can flip in any direction(most likely a scum) but since the time I casted vote on her - every single activity happened in this thread after that is a clue in itself.

Who stayed low key, who took the back seat, who is voting whom, who said what, which side is one taking, and so on.... everythin matters
since that time and that's how you build reads by lynching a player who is makin slips which isn't possible in case of randomly lynching an inactive or less helpful player.





@Bogard @TheAncientCenturion why you guys took the back seat after going after each other on First half of day one?
 
D

Dragomir

I said I am up to lynch any of them
Ok, so this is what pinged a bad read for Nana from me. This here is a player salad(indirect). Before I expound why that's bad and all, allow me to explain what a player salad actually is.

Player Salad
A [player] salad is when a player in the game gives a pool of people that they are ok with lynching. A majority of that pool is filled with half-assed scum reads that the said player has hardly even interacted with or looked into. This is a scumtell because it is used by wolves as a way to fall back in case their main target isn't working. If the first person they're tryna mislync isn't garnering attention, then they can fall back on the rest of their pool and still try to appear as if they're cooperative and productive. Essentially, this is a way to keep a wolf comfortable and play it as safe as they can. Like I said earlier, the majority of these players they barely interact with and don't hard push at all. That's reserved for their main target. If town is looking to lynch someone else in their pool then the player will forget about their main target and fall back to that other player.

This is not a townie thing to do at all. Most townies are not focused on trying to collect as many suspects as they possibly can to lynch. No, instead they're trying to find one scum; they're trying to find one path and follow that path till it crumbles apart or that path ends up having a light at the end instead of darkness(light meaning town and darkness meaning scum). Reborn is doing that, I am doing that, Bogard is doing that(I'm using them as examples since I'm 98% sure that Reborn & Bogard are town).

Now as you can see, salads aren't that good. Now, you might ask: "Drago, but Celestia didn't list a pool of players though." You're right she didn't, but what she said in that question was pretty close. I said I am up to lynch any of them. That statement implies that she has a pool of players that she'd be ok with lynching. It's pretty unnecessary for her to state them out loud when the implication is right there.

Now, the only times a player salad would be ok would be during the late game when you're doing a process of elimination. You got players who aren't in your town core so you're down to get rid of them. That's reasonable. But as you can see, we're not in the late game. There is no reason to be doing player salads right now.

This is the 2nd time I caught Nana doing this. I'm willing to bet it's the 2nd time she's flipping scum too. Down with the scum!
 
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