Current Events Round two?

[Bf-37]

Are the Tobi roppo done? Out of the ones currently involved in fights with the SHs, Who’s who, Sasaki, and Black Maria, it looks to be that they’re getting taken out one after the other. But are they out for good, or are they coming back with a prehistoric vengeance? I’m not gonna lie, I want them to come back cause it be dissatisfactory if they didn’t. Their fights didn’t pack the same punch that most SH fights do. Being teased sparingly in the background of other chapters and in the end relegated to a one chapter clash. The SHs didn’t really struggle in their 1v1 fights, as much as they did fighting the F6’s fodder lackeys.
I just don’t get this feeling of finality. Oda’s hyped up the resilience/toughness of the Ancient Zoan types with Page one and Ulti both coming back after repeatedly sustaining heavy damage. I’ve also seen people mention awakening, which I can see happening, but not really for the tobi roppo. It may be that Oda is leaving a lot in the air for the anime to take liberty with and expand on, at the expense of manga readers. IDK, just hoping for more. The SH’s are our guys and they’ve had less relevance than they deserve.


Feel free to justify your thoughts on whether the fights will continue or why they won’t.


P.S. Franky vs Sasaki round two, all out slug fest (No Franky shogun) would be

 

[Garp the Fist]

They’re finished.

We just are not going to spend a couple of months going through all the fighting Six fights, have them all beaten, only for the exact same plotline to be repeated all over again as they get back up and need defeated for a second time. It would mean the pace had slowed to a crawl, instead of speeding up the way it’s supposed to right now.

And if it happens to the Flying Six, then surely it has to happen to the three Calamities as well, given they are much stronger.

We aren’t going to spend half a year defeating nine enemies only for there to be a miracle resurrection and for there to be another three months at least to finish a plotline that has already be resolved. That is genuinely atrocious writing, much worse than them going down kinda quickly. That’s the opposite of the Jo Ha Kyu thing this arc is meant to follow more than any other.

Or just as bad, there’s a FI style chapter where they all get up and thrn immediately get one-shotted at the same time. In which case, what’s the point?

And the fights themselves are telling us they are over. They are all being going through, one after the other, the same way all the fights in every arc are done.

-Page One got smashed by a CoC punch from an enraged, sane Big Mom. Game over. We’d already seen this guy fight back in Act 2, and his fight with Usopp never had the time devoted to it like Nami vs Ulti did. Just doesn’t seem like Oda wants Usopp to beat the guy.
-Nami vs Ulti had a clear path. She needed stronger lightning. Big Mom then pulverised her. Then Nami had that stronger lightning (Zeus) who said that one final hit will do it. Definitive.
-Who’s Who failed miserably in his attempt to beat Jinbei. By the end Jinbei was not just tanking everything that was being thrown at him, it was actually hurting WW to attack Jinbei. Jinbei has proved himself definitively stronger than WW.
-All the dialogue in Franky vs Sasaki is about how the fight is ending. Franky’s talking about ultimate one-shots and shit, Sasaki is talking about suicide attacks (relatively speaking) so that he takes Franky out as well as being defeated. The start of the fight also establishes that Sasaki has done the tough dinosaur recovery thing, it’s just been mostly off-panelled apart from Victory Flash

 

[Seth]

They’re finished.

We just are not going to spend a couple of months going through all the fighting Six fights, have them all beaten, only for the exact same plotline to be repeated all over again as they get back up and need defeated for a second time. It would mean the pace had slowed to a crawl, instead of speeding up the way it’s supposed to right now.

And if it happens to the Flying Six, then surely it has to happen to the three Calamities as well, given they are much stronger.

We aren’t going to spend half a year defeating nine enemies only for there to be a miracle resurrection and for there to be another three months at least to finish a plotline that has already be resolved. That is genuinely atrocious writing, much worse than them going down kinda quickly. That’s the opposite of the Jo Ha Kyu thing this arc is meant to follow more than any other.

Or just as bad, there’s a FI style chapter where they all get up and thrn immediately get one-shotted at the same time. In which case, what’s the point?

And the fights themselves are telling us they are over. They are all being going through, one after the other, the same way all the fights in every arc are done.

-Page One got smashed by a CoC punch from an enraged, sane Big Mom. Game over. We’d already seen this guy fight back in Act 2, and his fight with Usopp never had the time devoted to it like Nami vs Ulti did. Just doesn’t seem like Oda wants Usopp to beat the guy.
-Nami vs Ulti had a clear path. She needed stronger lightning. Big Mom then pulverised her. Then Nami had that stronger lightning (Zeus) who said that one final hit will do it. Definitive.
-Who’s Who failed miserably in his attempt to beat Jinbei. By the end Jinbei was not just tanking everything that was being thrown at him, it was actually hurting WW to attack Jinbei. Jinbei has proved himself definitively stronger than WW.
-All the dialogue in Franky vs Sasaki is about how the fight is ending. Franky’s talking about ultimate one-shots and shit, Sasaki is talking about suicide attacks (relatively speaking) so that he takes Franky out as well as being defeated. The start of the fight also establishes that Sasaki has done the tough dinosaur recovery thing, it’s just been mostly off-panelled apart from Victory Flash

^

Don't mind me I will just bump your post.

Nothing more to add.

 

[Finalbeta]

WsW I'm not optimistic for the way it basically had played out. I think unless Oda wanted to portray a huge twist then WsW has nothing of additional to offer.

Sasaki looks to be done in fact Franky reached the limit.

If Ulti is able to fight again soon I would be pissed considering what she went through haha. Not as pissed with P0.

 

[Monet]

they will come back

lol like wtf they use hybrid then in same chapter got defeated

hell no .



they are definitely coming back .

 

[Roo]

They’re done. I bet Oda is preparing them for a final double spread of the Straw Hats being the victors.

if not they’re all going down in the same chapter, just don’t expect another full round of fights

 

[Oblivion]

I think they’re done
Oda probably wants to get through them as fast as possible

 

[Lightbolt]

Oda may surprise us with Maria winning and Robin captured

 

[Finalbeta]

Oda may surprise us with Maria winning and Robin captured

And Brook saving her?

 

[ShadowStyle369]

for me going off how much ulti took i feel they can't be done yet

 

[Garp the Fist]

Oda may surprise us with Maria winning and Robin captured

That would make both Sanji and Robin look really bad. Would be like validating all the characters laughing at him for being pathetic.

 

[Bf-37]

They’re finished.

We just are not going to spend a couple of months going through all the fighting Six fights, have them all beaten, only for the exact same plotline to be repeated all over again as they get back up and need defeated for a second time. It would mean the pace had slowed to a crawl, instead of speeding up the way it’s supposed to right now.

And if it happens to the Flying Six, then surely it has to happen to the three Calamities as well, given they are much stronger.

We aren’t going to spend half a year defeating nine enemies only for there to be a miracle resurrection and for there to be another three months at least to finish a plotline that has already be resolved. That is genuinely atrocious writing, much worse than them going down kinda quickly. That’s the opposite of the Jo Ha Kyu thing this arc is meant to follow more than any other.

Or just as bad, there’s a FI style chapter where they all get up and thrn immediately get one-shotted at the same time. In which case, what’s the point?

And the fights themselves are telling us they are over. They are all being going through, one after the other, the same way all the fights in every arc are done.

-Page One got smashed by a CoC punch from an enraged, sane Big Mom. Game over. We’d already seen this guy fight back in Act 2, and his fight with Usopp never had the time devoted to it like Nami vs Ulti did. Just doesn’t seem like Oda wants Usopp to beat the guy.
-Nami vs Ulti had a clear path. She needed stronger lightning. Big Mom then pulverised her. Then Nami had that stronger lightning (Zeus) who said that one final hit will do it. Definitive.
-Who’s Who failed miserably in his attempt to beat Jinbei. By the end Jinbei was not just tanking everything that was being thrown at him, it was actually hurting WW to attack Jinbei. Jinbei has proved himself definitively stronger than WW.
-All the dialogue in Franky vs Sasaki is about how the fight is ending. Franky’s talking about ultimate one-shots and shit, Sasaki is talking about suicide attacks (relatively speaking) so that he takes Franky out as well as being defeated. The start of the fight also establishes that Sasaki has done the tough dinosaur recovery thing, it’s just been mostly off-panelled apart from Victory Flash

You raise a lot of good points. But ultimately how do you find this turn of events? Don’t you find it lackluster or just par for the course?

My line of reasoning is the culmination of three expectations. First struggle(in the fights), setting(war), story(twist). The Jinbe fight is up to your interpretation, but ultimately felt like a mid-dif fight, none of the usual struggle, and with Franky out of the shogun he would now have to use his cola reserves and protect his back from a triceratops charge, actually struggle. The clashes are taking place during a war where the tides ebb and wane, with the battle favoring the straw hats heavily, a shift is bound to take place in the enemy’s favor. Or it’d make for boring writing. To that point an Oda twist is sure to happen, and I think the beast pirates (Tobbi roppo) bouncing back, is that twist.

This can happen reasonably over time, with let’s say in the same chapter. After all the F6 being defeated, Jinbe, Franky, and Robin(?) are walking away from their fights having thought they won, and BAM, round two as the F6 stand up.(WW,Sasaki,BM) We then see glimpses of their continued battles in passing, throughout other chapters. Culminating with a decisive double page spread of Jinbe, Franky, and Robin(?) taking out their respective F6 members. This could take place in their own chapters, or even in the same one. But IDK we still haven’t gotten a chapter titled Franky vs Sasaki.

 

[Roo]

You raise a lot of good points. But ultimately how do you find this turn of events? Don’t you find it lackluster or just par for the course?

My line of reasoning is the culmination of three expectations. First struggle(in the fights), setting(war), story(twist). The Jinbe fight is up to your interpretation, but ultimately felt like a mid-dif fight, none of the usual struggle, and with Franky out of the shogun he would now have to use his cola reserves and protect his back from a triceratops charge, actually struggle. The clashes are taking place during a war where the tides ebb and wane, with the battle favoring the straw hats heavily, a shift is bound to take place in the enemy’s favor. Or it’d make for boring writing. To that point an Oda twist is sure to happen, and I think the beast pirates (Tobbi roppo) bouncing back, is that twist.

This can happen reasonably over time, with let’s say in the same chapter. After all the F6 being defeated, Jinbe, Franky, and Robin(?) are walking away from their fights having thought they won, and BAM, round two as the F6 stand up.(WW,Sasaki,BM) We then see glimpses of their continued battles in passing, throughout other chapters. Culminating with a decisive double page spread of Jinbe, Franky, and Robin(?) taking out their respective F6 members. This could take place in their own chapters, or even in the same one. But IDK we still haven’t gotten a chapter titled Franky vs Sasaki.

The straw hats usually mid diff their fights

 

[Dark Admiral]

Who's Who and Sasaki were the only ones to whom I have trusted and both got defeated by two of the best fighters from SHs.
Jimbei was a warlord + Fishmen (an average fishmen is 10x stronger than average human). Jimbei already showed he can block Big Mom's full swing attack of Napoleon with his CoA which means, Who's Who needed to be next level fighter for him to actually bypass Jimbei's toughness + CoA. The fight turned out to be as expected, Jimbei pretty much dominated. Whatever's left of Who's Who will be dealt by CP-0.
Sasaki on the other hand got paired against Franky who comes as the fourth strongest from the SHs (prior Jimbei). His power of attack is unmatched. Also, Shogun armour helped him a lot to tank Sasaki's attack. He had Vegapunk's technology to assist him in this battle. Sasaki still managed to push Franky to high diff despite Franky hiding inside seemingly indestructible Armour. Without those beam attacks, Franky would've never won against Sasaki.

 

[Da evil Who]

You raise a lot of good points. But ultimately how do you find this turn of events? Don’t you find it lackluster or just par for the course?

Oda wrote himself into a corner.
If they are defeated, then the fights are lackluster.
If they all get up again, then so should the calamities.

Akainu vs. Aokiji fight lasted 10 days.
Ace vs. Jinbe fight lasted 3 days.
Luffy "won" against Katakuri in 12 hours.
Kaido will get defeated and killed in less than 5 hours.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

I think at least Ulti is down, but I’m not buying the others. If they are, that just weighs down the quality of this arc in my view.

 

[lee33]

If they do come back it will be terrible filler writing. However, if they don’t come back then they are still filler characters since they served absolutely no purpose to the story.

 

[Salah WG]

The best they can get is them standing up all at same time & Straw Hats finish them off simultaneously in same Chapter
Similar to Fishmen Island Arc. But doubt it

 

[Finalbeta]

I would love if Page One got up and started taking on Nami and Usopp, at least if that helped them empowering their capabilities.

 

[Garp the Fist]

You raise a lot of good points. But ultimately how do you find this turn of events? Don’t you find it lackluster or just par for the course?

I absolutely hated how Ulti and Page One were resolved. WW and Sasaki were solid, decent fights (I don’t like the Shogun, but it’s like the RS, I can deal with it now it’s here). And I would personally have preferred for WW to be stronger and him and Jinbei to really have a proper fight, but I can take this as well, Jinbei comes out looking great either way.

As far as second tier subordinates go, they’ve done the job reasonably well. They aren’t the cream of the crop, that‘s the Calamities, so my expectations for them weren’t that high, Even Ulti and Page One, who had a terrible, terrible ending but were pretty good before that. I think they’ve been better villains than the non-Seats in Dressrosa, for comparisons sake, who really just had a good last-minute flashback for Senor and a great sniper moment for Usopp in their favour.

The clashes are taking place during a war where the tides ebb and wane, with the battle favoring the straw hats heavily, a shift is bound to take place in the enemy’s favor. Or it’d make for boring writing. To that point an Oda twist is sure to happen, and I think the beast pirates (Tobbi roppo) bouncing back, is that twist.

This can happen reasonably over time, with let’s say in the same chapter. After all the F6 being defeated, Jinbe, Franky, and Robin(?) are walking away from their fights having thought they won, and BAM, round two as the F6 stand up.(WW,Sasaki,BM) We then see glimpses of their continued battles in passing, throughout other chapters. Culminating with a decisive double page spread of Jinbe, Franky, and Robin(?) taking out their respective F6 members. This could take place in their own chapters, or even in the same one. But IDK we still haven’t gotten a chapter titled Franky vs Sasaki.

Does the Flying Six specifically getting back up really create more tension though, or does it just artificially prolong the arc?

The problem with this idea is that Oda has really failed to establish the Flying Six as this great force that can turn the tide. Because they’ve already been beaten. Them getting back up and being beaten again, I just… don’t find it interesting. If the fights had been more even-sided, more of a struggle, then maybe, but WW gets back up and I’m just thinking, damn, I don’t care, I’ve already seen Jinbei finish this dude. And neither Jinbei or Franky (by himself, no Shogun) so far are that damaged either. If the Flying Six get back up… why would we think they’ve got any chance, because they’ll still be heavily damaged from round one, while the heroes are pretty much fine.

It’s very, very hard to build excitement for a round two when the heroes won round one. Easy to do it if the heroes lost round one, I’d have been fully behind a scenario where Jinbei and Franky (and Robin and Brook, whatever happens with them) looked defeated due to the overwhelming numbers, then Tama’s order turned the tide and the heroes came back for a storming round two victory. But we didn’t get that. I don‘t think the Flying Six can deliver that moment of horror where they stand back up again, and we think “god, how can our heroes possibly overcome this force, look how much they struggled to defeat them and they keep coming back!” Because... the heroes just didn’t really struggle all that much.

I think there is certainly a twist coming where there’s a turnaround and things suddenly become desperate for the alliance. I just don’t see the Flying Six as being the ones to deliver that turnaround. Not with how they’ve been portrayed so far. They aren’t that big a threat. Kaido, Big Mom, the Calamities, CP-0, hell, even Orochi, if I was to bet on someone on the enemy side to do something to drastically turn the tide of battle, it would be one of them, not the Flying Six. The Flying Six are still “just” the best Headliners, after all, they aren’t the main threat here.