Character Discussion Sanji, the "Paladin" of the Straw Hat crew.

Did this thread did anything for you?

  • Yes. I might actually think he is at least an "ok" character now.

  • Yes, but I still dont like him very much.

  • No, because I've always loved the character already. Win Win.

  • No. DEATH FOR THE SIMP!

  • Make the "Pervert" thread and then I'll say if I've changed my mind or not.


Results are only viewable after voting.
#1
Hello everyone, some of you know and like me, some hate me, and some have no freaking idea of who I am. To all of you, I'm here today to talk a little about a character that sparks some....controversial opinions: Sanji, the cook from the Straw Hats!

"WHY DO I CARE ABOUT THIS VIRGIN SIMP PIECE OF GARBAGE?" some of you might wonder. Well, I'm not here to try and preach some "Sanjiism" BS or convince you that "Sanji is best boy" whatever. I'm here to talk about some of this traits that are subject of never ending discussions, and shed some light to a few who might, in the end, understand a little bit more about what Oda tries to accomplish with this character. There will be Dungeons and Dragons (DnD) references, there will be some other fiction references, there will be comparisons with Zoro (no it won't), so brace yourselves and come with me in this journey.

Before I delve into Sanji's character, I wanna talk a little about DnD. In DnD, there are many different classes to choose from and build your character. Some of them are very "stereotyped", like the "edgy" rogue that is a freaking cleptomaniac and a coward, the old wizard with a long beard, etc. One of them is the one I wanna talk about: the annoying ass Paladin.

Look at that smug as face. What makes the Paladin so "annoying"? Well, in earlier editions, the Paladin would draw his powers from his "God". They would also be required to act according to his God's beliefs. Normally, the Paladin would always be "Lawful Good" (lawful means the follows a strict set of rules, representing "order" as a counterpart to "chaos". I don't think I need to explain the "good" part). He would be the "Knight in shining armor" that protects the innocents, destroys demons and undeads, punishes criminals, etc. The bastion of virtue and morality. "What's wrong with that?" you ask. Well, imagine a guy like this working with a cleptomaniac Rogue. Or a demon worshipping Warlock. Or a Warrior that fights for anyone that pays him well enough. You see where I'm going? The Paladin would often find himself in situations of conflict with his own group members. Remember this?
(Ah, the blooming of a beautiful relationship).
In later iterations, the Paladin instead of "blindly" following some "God", now is more like a Knight that takes an "oath", or vows. This Oath can come with many forms. The description of these Oaths is: "Becoming a paladin involves taking vows that commit the paladin to the cause of righteousness, an active path of fighting wickedness. The final oath, taken when he or she reaches 3rd level, is the culmination of all the paladin’s training. Some characters with this class don’t consider themselves true paladins until they have reached 3rd level and made this oath. For others, the actual swearing of the oath is a formality, an official stamp on what has always been true in the paladin’s heart.".
So we can see that these make the CORE of that character. It's who they are. It's something that they will see through. A Paladin that breaks his oath loses his powers.
Some examples of Oaths are: Oath of Devotion (the more holy knight that fights evil and protects all that is good and virtuous and righteous in the world), the Oath of Vengeance (the more "I'm gonna do anything and pay any price to do what I must"), etc.
But what does it have to do with Sanji? Well, everything really.

Sanji took an "Oath". His tenets are:
- Never hit a woman. He learned this from Zeff.
- Don't let anyone starve. He faced starvation before, so he knows what kind of suffering in brings. So he shows empathy to whoever is in this situation.
- Never use his hands for fighting. As a cook, something he is truly passionate about since a kid, his hands are his most important tools, so he avoids using them in combat, relying on his kicks.
These tenets are like a Paladin's Oath to Sanji's character. They are the core of who he is. It limits him, but also gives him motivation. Same as the Paladin, people's reactions to Sanji usually are either "love him, or hate him". Despite that, also as a Paladin, he is one of the most beloved characters from the Straw Hats and One Piece in general.

The Straw Hats know who Sanji is, and know about all of these things. Yet, they would risk their lives for him, just as he would risk his for theirs. He is not a "one-man-army" that will solve any problem thrown at him. Often he will need help from his friends, and even more often he will jump into harm's way to shield them from danger. Like a true Paladin!
Let me hear your thoughts on this particular subject I brought. The "pervert" part is gonna be a whole new thread that I'm gonna write later down this week, so I want to ignore it for now.
If this reading helped you see the character under a new perspective, and maybe not hating him so much, that will already be an absolute win for me. If nothing changed for you...well, sucks to be you who wasted your time reading all this. LMAO.
Anyway, peace.
 
#7
OK thread. That was a nice connection/comparison you made there.
Still Sanji could have done better while staying true to his oaths had he learnt from his past and chose to get away from obvious traps instead of staying.
That's a fair point.
I wanted to delve a little bit more into the events from this week's chapter, but I thought it would make the initial post waaaaaaaaaaaay too long.
But I can talk about it now. :P

This Black Maria plotline is something to be analyzed since Sanji's introduction arc in Baratie.
During the Baratie, he just stood there as Pearl constantly hit him, just for the sake of protecting both Zeff and the Baratie. He's EXTREMELY dedicated to his "oaths". I didn't write "extremely" in caps for nothing. Oda makes the character go to the last consequences. This is an aspect that usually is very divisive. There's really no way around it. Some people either love it, or hate it. Often he think "but why doesn't the character JUST to this a little bit different?" Oda makes sure that this is not the case for Sanji. Dude is committed to his principles. Same in Ennies Lobby, when he tried to bluff against kalifa, or play "I'm gonna show you how stronger I am so you give up", but ultimately, got overpowered by Kalifa's soap ability, that kinda fucks up brawlers.
In Black Maria's case, we now have webs, instead of soap. But the thing is that the webs are meant to be the reason Sanji can't escape. We see panels of him trying to get away. he wasn't just "standing" there. But there's a flying6 and multiples gifters that Sanji literally can't do anything about.
Now, He has the Raid Suit, but Oda chose for him not using it now, since he WANTED Sanji to be unable to escape for now. It's a bit of PIS, but hey, Oda is Oda, sometimes we just gotta accept that and move on, despite we knowing how little sense some of his decisions make.
Then the "crying for help". In a normal situation, Sanji would simply take that beating without flinching. He took those "hits" before to protect his friends. It's not something unusual for him. But we have a problem. The scabbards' location is known, they are defeated, and the enemy is trying to kill them. Sanji, who before was saying that he needed to go to the roof to help Kinemon and the others, now has the SAME objective, but at a different location. At the roof, at least Luffy was there (as far as he knows). But now they are helpless. He can't waste time there, but he can't fight Black Maria back. What does he do? He calls for Robin. He is perfectly confident in Robin's ability to, not only save him, but fight all those people by herself. Brook coming along is just a bonus. He has utmost faith in Robin, despite knowing they want her because poneglyphs. Robin also knows this.
I find it great how Oda shows different reactions from different people. Jinbei, who's the newest member, thinks Sanji did something wrong. Just as he didnt have a clue when Luffy and Zoro wandered ahead at the beginning of the raid. He's still learning the crew's dynamic. Then the reaction from kidd's fodders. The Beast Pirates' reaction. They all THINK Sanji is betraying Robin, when, he is, in fact, just asking for her to come wipe the floor with these fuckers, so he can protect Kinemon. Remember that he is the only one in the alliance that knows where they are.
The CP0 is irrelevant to this equation. They don't know they are currently there in Onigashima. The decisions they took are not supposed to be affected by their presence there.
So I think he did quite well keeping his oaths. Dude even couldn't put his CoA on because he thought it could hurt Black Maria back. LMAO. what a considerate fellow.
And remember, Robin herself was help she could be the one to help him. She deserves to be the "savior" for a change. And having Sanji, who often put himself in harm's way for the crew, be the one to ask her for help, was just too wholesome for me. :sweat:
I am more a SaNa fellow. But the little SanBin in me got very happy with this chapter.
 
#11
amazing post. and people saying sanji should have stayed away from this predicament, is really not being fair to sanji. sanji heard ladies crying. do you guys want sanji to go against his character of chivalry. without sanji character trait, zoro's girlfriend would have been killed by vergo. or is it that he got caught by black maria. remember what black maria said, she prepared tranquilizers and webs.
 
#13
My problem is how inconsistent his belief system is. He can block Khalifa with his kicks, he can kick Big Mom’s arm and for some reason that also counts as blocking, but he literally cannot muster an armament defence in 1005 because it MIGHT hurt Black Maria? Like what? Makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

Also, paladins are genuinely respectful towards women. Sanji’s rudeness towards Kokoro shows his chivalry only extends so far.
 
#14
Holy shit if you ended your thread like ''Bon Appétit'' , it would be better. why did you miss that chance
Fuck.
You still have hope for sanji and I respect that

But that doesn't change anything, he was humiliated in the last chapter.
Oh I'm not contesting that. He was, indeed, put into an humiliating position for the entire island to hear. But completely ignoring it, so he could get away and go help Kinemon it's an admirable thing. Shows a little bit of humility from him. Helping his allies is more important than some people think he is a clown or not.
Reminds me of.......
....
...
...
O...
Od....
argh.
Oden.
:odenugh:
Dude made himself look like a clown for years, if it meant protecting the Wano people. People were grateful for him, once they learned what really happenned.
Too bad he was dumb dumb and didn't realize Orochi was a little fucker.
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My problem is how inconsistent his belief system is. He can block Khalifa with his kicks, he can kick Big Mom’s arm and for some reason that also counts as blocking, but he literally cannot muster an armament defence in 1005 because it MIGHT hurt Black Maria? Like what? Makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

Also, paladins are genuinely respectful towards women. Sanji’s rudeness towards Kokoro shows his chivalry only extends so far.
Of course it makes sense. Try punching a solid block of concrete and tell me if your hand hurts after. That's the logic with CoA. it's an invisible "armor". Like When Luffy tried to punch Katakuri's CoA with his own, but got hurt because Katakuri's was just harder. Now, if Sanji's CoA is INDEED that strong, we don't know. But he THINKS it is, and since Haki is tied to will, spirit, or whatever, it affects its capability quite literally.
Earlier iterations of Paladin might have been like that, but Sanji is Dnd 5th edition Paladin. So it's not something mandatory. But as I said, I'm gonna talk about this "pervert" side of his in another thread. Dont worry, I won't "defend" it or anything like that. :P
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Nice thread, But i still dont like sanji much, Not after time skip at least.

Edit: The problem is not with your thread but with sanji. If sanji was still pre time skip your thread would make alot of sense. But because of how sanji changed it just dont work.
Fair. But in my next thread, when I talk about the "pervert" gag, I'm gonna compare pre-TS and post-TS more.
 
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#15
I voted death for the simp because is funny lol
As for the pervert thred I believe there is already one or at least I believe there is one there are to many similar threads.
At this point there could be 2 or 3 megathreds for sanji or just one fluffing one so we can get rid of the clogging of this section. This could be applied to other topics there a lot of similar threads that could just be posts of an other one
 
#16
I voted death for the simp because is funny lol
As for the pervert thred I believe there is already one or at least I believe there is one there are to many similar threads.
At this point there could be 2 or 3 megathreds for sanji or just one fluffing one so we can get rid of the clogging of this section. This could be applied to other topics there a lot of similar threads that could just be posts of an other one
True.
I'm gonna find the appropriate thread and post it there later too keep things a little cleaner.
 
#17
Fair. But in my next thread, when I talk about the "pervert" gag, I'm gonna compare pre-TS and post-TS more.
Well the perverted gag is one of these things that changed from pre ts to post. In pre time skip Sanji was perverted but it was more balanced he never really went over the top like in post time skip. Its one of many things that felt balanced about sanji pre time skip but became extreme and over the top post time skip. which is why people started considering him more of a gag character than pretimeskip
 
#18
True.
I'm gonna find the appropriate thread and post it there later too keep things a little cleaner.
Mine was just a suggestion you can create a new thred and give it your spin you are allowed to there is nothing in the rules that says otherwise. Plus if the mods belive it should be merge they will do it.

So my was just a suggestion you don't have to follow it, feel free to do what you want don't take me to seriously
 
#20
Sanji being perverted is just a shonen thing trending in those years since we cant have luffy or zoro to act like that.
True.
But the thing is, the "pervert" gag CAN be funny. And there ARE instances when Sanji IS funny with it. Problem is that Oda REALLY drops the ball with this trope. There are WAY more not funny moments, so they often overshadow the funny ones. Topic for another day. I don't want to create 2 topics for the same character in the same week. So i'm gonna push it for next week. Also gives more time to assemble a better line of thought, since it's something that I'm gonna need to look into other stories as well.
 
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