Break Week So Zoro acknowledges that King is not a swordsman.

#61
And Zoro's dream is to be the Strongest Swordsman Ever
I have always doubted that Zoro would reach Ryuma’s level since that guy was able to defeat the WG alone, I don’t think Zoro or even Luffy could reach his level, but if I’m-same turns out to be a monster then maybe Luffy might reach that level.

My head canon is that when Luffy beats I’m-same then that’s when Zoro beats Mihawk
 
#62
Just like Wb never beat his closest rival,Mihawk never beat his rival shanks and vice Versa.
Makes you wonder who makes these World strongest titles and on what are they even based on.

If King wasn't a swordsman,then how can we really who is and who isn't at this point? I'm legitimately confused.
 
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#63
No, titles are arbitrary goals designed for the characters meant to surpass them, that's it.

Mihawk was the WSS before Roger died, so I guess that means Mihawk is stronger than Roger and thus, Whitebeard? See why titles are absolute garbage when you try to use them outside of who they apply to (i.e. Zoro)?
Roger was a dying man when Mihawk was rising to fame. Furthermore, Roger was never stronger than WB because he became PK while he was already weakened by his sickness. The idea that PK Roger > every other people was debunked by Oden’s flashback. So Mihawk being stronger than a dying Roger while being weaker than WB makes sense.

Titles are only garbage when one denied their purpose because of agenda. People are struggling with Mihawk’s title only because they absolutely want Shanks to be stronger than him. The moment one stop doing that is the moment where everything fall into place.

In short, stop trying to bend the rules and you will see that the game makes sense.
 
#64



Hey but "Oda" considered these guys "swordmans" which is enough for me :sadgrin:
Where is Fujitora?
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Just like Wb never beat his closest rival,Mihawk never beat his rival shanks and vice Versa.
Makes you wonder who makes these World strongest titles and on what are they even based on.

If King wasn't a swordsman,then how can we really who is and who isn't at this point? I'm legitimately confused.
Regardless of where Mihawk might stand, people take titles too seriously in the first place, whether it´s strongest title, Yonkou and whatnot, especially since there are significant holes in every title and specific circumstances.
 
#65
The strongest people in the verse fall under the WSS debate, which is enough.
So now Mihawk is stronger than Whitebeard even tho his title falls under Whitebeards?
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Just like Wb never beat his closest rival,Mihawk never beat his rival shanks and vice Versa.
Makes you wonder who makes these World strongest titles and on what are they even based on.

If King wasn't a swordsman,then how can we really who is and who isn't at this point? I'm legitimately confused.
If you consider yourself a swordsmans your a swordsman it's that simple
 
#66
Roger was a dying man when Mihawk was rising to fame. Furthermore, Roger was never stronger than WB because he became PK while he was already weakened by his sickness. The idea that PK Roger > every other people was debunked by Oden’s flashback. So Mihawk being stronger than a dying Roger while being weaker than WB makes sense.

Titles are only garbage when one denied their purpose because of agenda. People are struggling with Mihawk’s title only because they absolutely want Shanks to be stronger than him. The moment one stop doing that is the moment where everything fall into place.

In short, stop trying to bend the rules and you will see that the game makes sense.
Not really, titles have very deep holes, taking them as absolute has always been a problem but people need clarity about everything and can´t accept that maybe not everything is revealed yet. As example, i have not once seen anybody predict that CoC could be used in the manner it was introduced in this arc, people always just put it aside as fodder control, now suddenly it can elevate high tiers into top tier category. Trying to pretend that everything is clear and done with is premature, especially considering Oda likes to introduce stuff successively over the years.

We know for example why WB was called the strongest man, not because of a specific accomplishment, beating the previous WSM or whatever, but because of the monstrous way he crushed down his opponents with the Gura and his way of combat, and he was called that while Roger was in his prime, yet they were dead equal (vivre cards), putting aside Garp existing as well, and that it seems like that Rocks, BM, WB and so forth lost against Roger+Garp. Also putting aside the fact that the narrator, usually a viewpoint that´s supposed to be omniscient called WB WSM when he was already sick and old and by his own admission probably not the strongest in any way.
We know why Kaidou is called WSC, his durability (offensively there are more impressive characters, whether it´s WB/BB, Akainu, Mihawk (just extrapolating from Zoro and what he can do AP-wise without being a full fledged top tier)).
Yet people pretend that WSS has to be the exception.
Of course there are very good arguments that he is what the title says, vivre card stating in name and actuality, him having a black blade while Shanks, Roger, Rayleigh, Fuji and so forth don´t, Shanks having lost an arm.
But considering the other two titles, the possibility of Oda throwing a curve ball are not slim, especially with how mysterious Shanks´ character is, plus they could easily be another case of WB and Roger, actually equal while one possessing one title (WSM(WSS) while the other gained something at least equally notorious (PK/Yonkou).
 
#69
Not really, titles have very deep holes, taking them as absolute has always been a problem but people need clarity about everything and can´t accept that maybe not everything is revealed yet. As example, i have not once seen anybody predict that CoC could be used in the manner it was introduced in this arc, people always just put it aside as fodder control, now suddenly it can elevate high tiers into top tier category. Trying to pretend that everything is clear and done with is premature, especially considering Oda likes to introduce stuff successively over the years.

We know for example why WB was called the strongest man, not because of a specific accomplishment, beating the previous WSM or whatever, but because of the monstrous way he crushed down his opponents with the Gura and his way of combat, and he was called that while Roger was in his prime, yet they were dead equal (vivre cards), putting aside Garp existing as well, and that it seems like that Rocks, BM, WB and so forth lost against Roger+Garp. Also putting aside the fact that the narrator, usually a viewpoint that´s supposed to be omniscient called WB WSM when he was already sick and old and by his own admission probably not the strongest in any way.
We know why Kaidou is called WSC, his durability (offensively there are more impressive characters, whether it´s WB/BB, Akainu, Mihawk (just extrapolating from Zoro and what he can do AP-wise without being a full fledged top tier)).
Yet people pretend that WSS has to be the exception.
Of course there are very good arguments that he is what the title says, vivre card stating in name and actuality, him having a black blade while Shanks, Roger, Rayleigh, Fuji and so forth don´t, Shanks having lost an arm.
But considering the other two titles, the possibility of Oda throwing a curve ball are not slim, especially with how mysterious Shanks´ character is, plus they could easily be another case of WB and Roger, actually equal while one possessing one title (WSM(WSS) while the other gained something at least equally notorious (PK/Yonkou).
The WSS is Zoro’s dream. This in itself should end the debate about the title validity.

Look how Oda is writting Zoro. Look the feats that he gives him, do you think that when Zoro will achieve his dream Oda will make it so that the readers could ask themeselves if X swordsman is still stronger or do you you think that Oda will give Zoro feats that are so impressive that there will be no doubt about it?

Zoro’s dream is more important than any other character powerlevel (bar Luffy) so if for Zoro’s dream to be doubtless Oda as to make Mihawk to be stronger than Shanks, he will.
 
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nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#70
Just like there's nothing "proving" Mihawk is less of a pirate to Shanks other than a TITLE, there's nothing "proving" Shanks is less of a swordsman or fighter than Mihawk other than a TITLE.
There is tho. Zoro's target.
Zoro isnt after 2nd strongest but after the strongest.
Mental gymnastics never work.
Still fun to read them.

I have always doubted that Zoro would reach Ryuma’s level
:kriwhat: Never doubt Zori. He is whatever Ryuma was and more than that.
 
#71
Zoro never said King isn't swordsman. He just said King never told to be a swordman. Even Zoro said he would bite King if needed.

King is a swordsman. Is the main weapon. It's clearly at his backstory he is using his sword and has flames on it when escaping with Kaido.
 
#72

"Calls" is the keyword
What was Cabaji's fighting style? He used a sword, but he also used a unicycle, fire breathing, kicks, tops with explosives. Why is he a swordsman but not King? Because King never called himself a swordsman, simple as.
 
#73
The WSS is Zoro’s dream. This in itself should end the debate about the title validity.

Look how Oda is writting Zoro. Look the feats that he gives him, do you think that when Zoro will achieve his dream Oda will make it so that the readers could ask themeselves if X swordsman is still stronger or do you you think that Oda will give Zoro feats that are so impressive that there will be no doubt about it?

Zoro’s dream is more important than any other character powerlevel (bar Luffy) so if for Zoro’s dream to be doubtless Oda as to make Mihawk to be stronger than Shanks, he will.
Getting the title and then having someone who could match him would not really deny his dream
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 ⚛️
#74
Roger was a dying man when Mihawk was rising to fame. Furthermore, Roger was never stronger than WB because he became PK while he was already weakened by his sickness. The idea that PK Roger > every other people was debunked by Oden’s flashback. So Mihawk being stronger than a dying Roger while being weaker than WB makes sense.

Titles are only garbage when one denied their purpose because of agenda. People are struggling with Mihawk’s title only because they absolutely want Shanks to be stronger than him. The moment one stop doing that is the moment where everything fall into place.

In short, stop trying to bend the rules and you will see that the game makes sense.
If people listened to titles like absolute truth they would have to believe that Old Whitebeard was the strongest man on Marineford :crazwhat:
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 ⚛️
#76
Do you believe thst Mihawk is strogner than shanks?
Yep I used to make cases on that in the past

Realistically these elements testify that Mihawk is arguably stronger than Shanks:

> waiting for a swordmaster to specifically surpass Shanks

> Zoro vs Mihawk in built story clash hype

> Black blade hype in relation to Roger likely having acknowledged it and tried to forge failing

> Zoro to take out an admiral way before becoming a legitimate WSS

There's no contingency over here, this is arguably the truth: Mihawk > Shanks

Now he doesn't bear the same level as Ryuma's portrayal imo, he was the presumable strongest of his era after all. I would suggest the most hypey guy of all remains Im sama but I place the Grandgrandmaster Mihawk in the top 3-5 manifold of all times to our understanding.
 
#77
This panel is what people don't usually get. You know in his Vivre card that people tend to ignore. There is a Statement that we already know about Mihawk since his Duel with Zoro. "He not only distinguishes a person's talent from the sword, but he can also see the true strength of those who stand before him"

Don't you think him saying he wants to measure the true distance means that he already noticed the decline in WB and wants to see if the legend is true or not?

You can google his Vivre card and if you are not convinced you can find the Vivre card in google and translate it yourself to make sure.

Other than that i don't really care. I see Shanks and Mihawk equal.
 
#78
This panel is what people don't usually get. You know in his Vivre card that people tend to ignore. There is a Statement that we already know about Mihawk since his Duel with Zoro. "He not only distinguishes a person's talent from the sword, but he can also see the true strength of those who stand before him"

Don't you think him saying he wants to measure the true distance means that he already noticed the decline in WB and wants to see if the legend is true or not?

You can google his Vivre card and if you are not convinced you can find the Vivre card in google and translate it yourself to make sure.

Other than that i don't really care. I see Shanks and Mihawk equal.
I do too lol. The post was bait for the thread because I was talking about portrayal in the story. Check my other comments I fully believe they are equal men
 
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