Character Discussion Stop with your headcanon that One Piece is some sort of Underdog story.

#1
People are complaining that Luffy being the "chosen one" ruins their experience of one piece. From my perspective, I have no idea what these people have been reading for the past 20 years.

One Piece is not about "underdogs", but rather BAMFs with the will to absolutely dominate over others.
The entire first saga ("East Blue Saga") was Luffy and Zoro pretty much stomping the shit out of every villain they meet. Oda had to nerf/handicap Luffy and Zoro so that the arcs lasted more than 3 chapters.

The strongest ability you can have is Conqueror's Haki. Like the name implies, you have to be a "Conqueror" and dominate the wills of others. This is hardly some sort of underdog ability or something you get through hard work.

If people want an underdog story in One Piece, that's Ussop. Oda made him to be a "normal" human being. He's the one that actually fits the bill of using tricks and tactics to outsmart his opponents. Luffy, Sanji, and Zoro pretty much just brute force their way to victory every time. Ussop's also one of the few strawhats that undergoes character development.

So Luffy being special Joy Boy isn't really a surprise given his lineage or how he's been shown to be a specimen since the start of the series. And no, Zoro isn't some sort of "hard work beats talent" BS either. He's been crazy strong since he's debut and deliberately/carefully portrayed to not be below Luffy in strength throughout the entire series.
 
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Marimo_420

The Honoured One
#3
What ruins one piece isn't the fact that luffy is special, or uber strong.

It ruined by the fact that Luffy has absolute zero freedom in his life, is locked in a predetermined destiny and forced to lick Roger's, Joyboy's and Nika's footsteps.

A complete 180 on what Luffy and One piece stands for. This isn't headcannon. It just is, what it is.
 
#4
Suppose Oda didn't establish Luffy was Joyboy in chapter 1043 and instead established Luffy's will to continue to fight. You and your fanboy cult will then defend the "underdog story" of Luffy. To yall anything Oda decides to write into his story you will defend no matter what. If Oda wanted to go the underdog route, you will defend it. If Oda wanted to go the JoyBoy route, you will defend it. Now that Oda decided to go the JoyBoy route, you are now going to try and silence anyone who says "Luffy was always an underdog". Very cult like behavior.
 
#6
I don’t see what being a conqueror has to do with being an underdog. Chinjao even said it’s not that uncommon in the New World. You can be a conqueror and a slave. You can be a conqueror and be tied to the wall and lynched with your entire family. It’s not a magic get out of jail free card.

The issue that a lot of people are having has to do with the freedom paradox as mentioned by @Marimo_420. If your actions are predetermined by prophecies and reincarnation, by definition you cannot possibly be free. You merely believe in the illusion of your own free will, while dancing on some higher power’s strings.
 

Seth

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢
#7
I don’t see what being a conqueror has to do with being an underdog. Chinjao even said it’s not that uncommon in the New World. You can be a conqueror and a slave. You can be a conqueror and be tied to the wall and lynched with your entire family. It’s not a magic get out of jail free card.

The issue that a lot of people are having has to do with the freedom paradox as mentioned by @Marimo_420. If your actions are predetermined by prophecies and reincarnation, by definition you cannot possibly be free. You merely believe in the illusion of your own free will, while dancing on some higher power’s strings.
tl;dr

If your actions are predetermined by prophecies and reincarnation you were never meant to be free because your future was set in stone with your birth.

Muh Luffy boi.
 
#8
tl;dr

If your actions are predetermined by prophecies and reincarnation you were never meant to be free because your future was set in stone with your birth.

Muh Luffy boi.
By that logic, every character in One Piece isn't free because they all have a set future, as evident by Katakuri, Kaido and Luffy being able to see it

If the future wasn't set and predetermined they wouldn't be able to see it.

Nobody in One Piece has free will
 

Seth

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢
#9
By that logic, every character in One Piece isn't free because they all have a set future, as evident by Katakuri, Kaido and Luffy being able to see it

If the future wasn't set and predetermined they wouldn't be able to see it.

Nobody in One Piece has free will
Straw Hats have their goals aside from Luffy's journey. They are not bound by fate. But all the shit with Luffy getting Gomu and what Gomu actually is ah man. Inexcusable to call it otherwise than it is.

Roger's words are now funny in a grand scheme of things. He said that line about wanting to meet joyboy because he realized he wasn't the chosen one. Same with Kaido.
 
#10
I don’t see what being a conqueror has to do with being an underdog. Chinjao even said it’s not that uncommon in the New World. You can be a conqueror and a slave. You can be a conqueror and be tied to the wall and lynched with your entire family. It’s not a magic get out of jail free card.

The issue that a lot of people are having has to do with the freedom paradox as mentioned by @Marimo_420. If your actions are predetermined by prophecies and reincarnation, by definition you cannot possibly be free. You merely believe in the illusion of your own free will, while dancing on some higher power’s strings.
No offense, but to me that is a silly reason to hate it though. It feels like you guys are just nitpicking and making it way too philosophical for a story about pirates. Deep philosophical questions like "freedom paradox" isn't what One Piece is about nor was it ever Oda's intentions. Sometimes you have to dispel your sense of belief when it comes to story telling and "freedom paradox" is definitely one of those things that shouldn't ruin a series for you. Sure it is definitely an issue but it is a very minor criticism.

To me personally, I don't mind the concept of destiny and reincarnation only if it has been executed well which is obviously not the case here. What I do mind is the blatant retcon, plot armor and total disregard of everything that was set up prior just so Luffy can beat Kaido. I think that is the main issue here not the freedom paradox.
 

Seth

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢
#11
To me personally, I don't mind the concept of destiny and reincarnation only if it has been executed well. What I do mind is the blatant retcon, plot armor and total disregard of everything that was set up prior just so Luffy can beat Kaido. I think that is the main issue here not the freedom paradox.
Imagine how different One Piece would be if Oda in the first chapter write a simple fucking editors note or shit: "Luffy's story begin! A man who is destined to succeed".

Does it help with chosen one troupe? Not much but at least you aren't fooled for ( insert any number of years someone reads it for ).
 
#12
Imagine how different One Piece would be if Oda in the first chapter write a simple fucking editors note or shit: "Luffy's story begin! A man who is destined to succeed".

Does it help with chosen one troupe? Not much but at least you aren't fooled for ( insert any number of years someone reads it for ).
I agree with that, which is my point about it being a retcon and Oda totally disregarding all of his preestablished subplots.

Have you ever watched "That time I got reincarnated as a slime"? It is literally about someone dying and being reincarnated as a slime lmao and it was executed really well. I don't mind troupes as long as if it is executed properly which is obviously not the case with Oda.
 

Seth

𝐊𝐨𝐤𝐮𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐬𝐮𝐢
#14
I agree with that, which is my point about it being a retcon and Oda totally disregarding all of his preestablished subplots.

Have you ever watched "That time I got reincarnated as a slime"? It is literally about someone dying and being reincarnated as a slime lmao and it was executed really well. I don't mind troupes as long as if it is executed properly which is obviously not the case with Oda.
Yeah, I know this. Good show.


You know what got into my head just now? What is Oda planning with Luffy being the freest person in the world? Since Luffy is a dumb motherfucker I wonder what Oda plans is Luffy going to free everyone from WG and just leave them be without any rules and etc?

LMAO.
 
#17
Imagine how different One Piece would be if Oda in the first chapter write a simple fucking editors note or shit: "Luffy's story begin! A man who is destined to succeed".

Does it help with chosen one troupe? Not much but at least you aren't fooled for ( insert any number of years someone reads it for ).
is this a joke because the 1st chapter literally says Luffy is on a voyage of destiny
 
#20
People are actually fine with "common" destiny stuff, like luckily evading death or meet super important people.

So, in actuality, got to meet a Yonko, having strong dad and granddad, etc, are still "acceptable".

Problems happened when the MC is connected to the one super duper most important ever stuff. Then only with that stuff, one can reach the story main goal.

That's a huge leap. Some people aren't comfortable anymore due to the absurdity of the situation. Especially when it practically disregard everyone's hardwork due to them being not predestined. It's like a slap in the face, so people disliking this is normal.
 
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